As I understand it the construction site had a no trespassing sign in front of it. My source is a business associate who is an attorney that has practiced criminal law in Georgia. He follows these sort of cases and has been my primary source of information.

His opinion is that the best defense of this case would be to establish Arbery had committed a felony, that the McMillians had information of. At that point he says that under Georgia law he would argue the McMillians had about the same right to arrest as an LEO would.

He also says if he were prosecuting the case he would inflame the jury with racial injustice accusations, argue that Arbery had not committed a felony negating the citizens arrest defense, as well as arguing that Arbery was fighting for his life. He also believes the defendants are "overcharged" as often happens in these type of cases.

This acquaintance is a damn good lawyer and can make a good case that the sky is green and the grass is blue.

The senior McMillian is reported to have said that he saw Arbery run into the house and then run out of it. He might being lying or telling the truth.

One thing in life that I learned the hard way is that some people become what they struggle against.

That is the anti-lynch activists often becomes the new lynch mob.

Here in Georgia, there is no death penalty for trespassing. There is for murder.

Good comment bulletslap. There are two sides to the rope.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

Who do you think was on the 9-1-1 call, reporting seeing him
enter, and then seeing him leave?

Geeze...and chasing---who was chasing? The truck was
PARKED.

Not lying--check the vid that has his 9-1-1 call synched with
video from another neighbor's Ring (?) cam, showing Arbery
walk up, look around, then run into the dwelling, exit, and
begin running after verbally challenged.

There will undoubtedly be more developed, in the years to come--
as this case will take years, undoubtedly, to move through
the justice system.

The unfortunate aspect is that people are ignoring information
we already do have, and substituting emotionally based opinions,
instead, that fit their personal world-view. And that seemingly
won't change, based on some of the fundamentally-wrong
characterizations of parties actions in the Martin shooting,
even years after the case was fully discharged, and information
made public.

That was not the McMichaels. It was someone else who was across the street from the house under construction.

Did you watch the video in post #273? I can only surmise that you didn't because you don't have the full story. The McMichaels and someone else (the cell phone video), chased Aubrey in their vehicles. They tried to block his progress and their vehicle was only parked at the very end.

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Freedom isn't free.

Be ause sme want to justify a poor decision in order to protect two idiot white, racist dudes?

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The man recording the video while following has been charged.

Man who recorded Ahmaud Arbery shooting charged with murder

Ahmaud Arbery: Man who recorded the fatal shooting has been arrested, GBI says - CNN

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Yet no alleged felony happened, cameras prove thst. The Very worst thing you could claim Arbery did was misdemeanor trespass. Which last time I looked, isnt cause for AWDW. No, those two were looking for a fight & someone to shoot. Otherwise why overtly take guns into the scenario?

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Still no felony as some claim. Still no cause for deadly force. This is a lot simpler than many are making it. Regardless of Arbery's past, we must deal with the immediate, which shows two armed white guys chasing down a cornering a black guy, who at mst committed a misdemeanor trespass, then for all we know, provoking an attack by Arebery. Then a ridiculous claim of self defense after. Like killing your parents & claiming pitty because you are now an orphan. I hope they slap them with murder 1, but that wont happen.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

A 4 min chase. You claim people stating false facts & here you are spewing all sorts of false statements. These two guys chased Arebery then cornred & approached him armed. Those are the facts. No fleeing felon BS as some are saying.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

For pete's sake HE WAS RUNNING - NO GUN, NO LOOT - HE WAS OUT FOR A JOG!!! I can't answer why he went into the house under construction - lots of people do. It's rude sure, that doesn't stop the practice.

I can tell you from personal experience: If I was out for a run and suddenly had the urge to pee or worse, ****, I'd be inclined to search for the nearest commode. If Mr. Aubrey "evacuated" after he was shot, that may be an indication.

This is sounding more and more like a lynching.

Collects is correct! Lots of new things coming out about this "poor innocent young black man", just out for a jog! Yeah, right! It's turning out that he is not quite the person the main stream lying media says he is. This reminds me so much of the Trayvon Martin shooting, all the shots of the little innocent lad, blah, blah, etc. Until the REAL pictures started appearing of a young thug, which was what he was. I think that when the REAL facts come out, and they will, Mr. Arberry is not gonna be the innocent victim in this case. I could be wrong, but I don't think so

This is post number 18 of the 300+. Allegedly, he was filming but also trying to help corral Arbery which could make him an accessory. I Also have a feeling McMichaels or the old man in overalls across the street called the filmer to assist as Arbery ran towards his house. He didn’t just happen to be out minding his own business. If he blocked the street to stop Arbery, as alleged, he probably filmed evidence against himself.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

If the crime Arbery is suspected of committing is a misdemeanor, and the citizen's arrest wasn't warranted, then convict them. I don't care. I don'r blindly defend anybody, regardless of their race, religion, or profession, as so many professional agitators and professional victims like to do.

The one thing I object to is the continued downplaying of Arbery. He was no angel out for a jog. Look at his rap sheet, already. Prior felonies and on probation at the time of the shooting. 3 minutes in the house caught on video and we've only seen 15 seconds of it, at best. Enough of the angel wings and halos. If he hadn't been shot that day (and if the citizen's arrest wasn't lawful the shooting must be judged criminal), he would have graduated onto other more serious crimes, and lots of victims along the way. He's no Emmit Till.

One of the family attorneys, Benjamin Crump was the attorney for Michael Brown’s and Travon Martin’s family. The publicist is the same for all three families. That’s why the photos we see on TV are college student/choir boy type photos. They control the narrative. And they are involved in other cases as well of unarmed black people. All racial issues aside, there is an attorney riding along on every bullet that comes out of our guns. We need to have a wise and measured use of those bullets. Or face the consequences. That really goes without saying.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

Yep. Same clowns at the same circus. They take more money from the eventual shakedown, I mean lawsuit, then the family will ever see. Then they’ll gleefully wait for the next victim to anoint a saint and start the process again.

What we do know is anyone who dares to not support their fiction will be branded a racist and run out of town.

Oy vey--facts, information; what need have we for them,
for we are certain in our convictions, and know how we
feel!

Keep in mind, attorneys are not under oath, in press
conferences...hence, the "chase" (by a parked truck ),
and the latest meme: that the deceased was planning a
career as an electrician, and that was why he stopped in
the unfinished dwelling--to inspect the exposed wiring.

The chase is supported by the McMichaels' statement to the police linked earlier.

Aubrey's innocence or guilt is not in question here. It doesn't matter what his past was. The only thing that matters is were the McMichaels justified in what they did. They weren't justified because they didn't know of and weren't witnesses to any crime committed by Aubrey.

I couldn't agree more.

I don't know who Emmit Till is/was, but I can only assume you mention him as someone who was truly innocent. I agree that Aubrey may not have been clean and maybe he was a horrible person. That's not in question here. The question is, did the McMichaels have some first hand knowledge of some felony committed by Aubrey. By their own testimony, they didn't. If they didn't, they were wrong in their actions.

Yes, facts is what any criminal investigation needs. My question still stands; what more evidence could there be to uncover? Let's look at what we know...

• Aubrey had been through this neighborhood before, but had committed no crimes there.
• The McMichaels had some knowledge of Aubrey, but had not personally witnessed any crimes by him.
• The McMichaels stated that they thought he might be someone who committed a crime.
• The McMichaels gave chase.

Yes, they gave chase. This is not in question. If the only "evidence" you're using to base your opinion is the short phone video, then you're not looking at everything that is available and you're the one who doesn't have the facts.

• Mr. Bryan also gave chase in his own truck, which is how we got the video, and tried to block Aubrey from getting away.
• The McMichaels eventually stopped their truck and got out to confront Aubrey, with guns drawn.
  Aubrey fought back when confronted by two men with guns.

The truck was only "parked" after they got out to grab Aubrey.

Look, Aubrey may indeed have been some bad dude. He may have a checkered past. He may have a rap sheet a mile long. None of that is relevant to the crime at hand. Based on Georgia law, as has been posted many times in this thread, the McMichaels didn't have the right to do what they did. They didn't have first hand knowledge of any crime committed by Aubrey. That alone is enough to prosecute them.




One more thing, I don't think charging Bryan with murder is right. Attempting to commit false imprisonment, yes, but murder, no.

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Freedom isn't free.

None of that has anything to do with two, maybe 3, white racist dudes chasing a guy because they think he did something. Then basically provoke a shooting. You guys have some serious issues with right & wrong & use of force.
No I dont think he was an innocent guy out for a jog, but he committed no crime worth being shot over. I would call what happened premeditated. Funny part, without the film, they might have gotten off like ole Zim.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

If all your other presumptions were correct, then, yes--charging
Bryan with felony murder would be correct, and appropriate.

Fixed it for ya.

What's the difference between "chasing" someone, and
"following and watching"?

Does "chasing" require some level of awareness, and
trepidation, in the mind of the 'chasee'?

How would that awareness show in the 'chasee's'
behavior, given his mobility would allow him to
traverse areas that the 'chasers' could not?

Lots of things to consider here but the question I have is what will the sentences be like. Does the old guy die in prison?

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That's just somebody talkin.

If somebody was chasing me in a place like that I would run up to a house and ask them to call the cops.

@Rastoff

Under the law, in most cases where someone is deemed an accomplice in a capital case, they are charged with murder regardless of who actually pulls the trigger.

They may, or may not be convicted of that charge, and may very well be convicted, (if found guilty or upon a plea), of a lesser charge.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

That always turns out well.

Yes, I can see that.I understand why this might happen. I just don't agree with it at this time.

According to what has been said so far, Bryan did engage in chasing and attempting to detain Arbery. Without his video we wouldn't be having this discussion. I guess the question is, did he collude with the McMichaels? Was Bryan a friend or confidant of the McMichaels? Had they discussed Arbery before? Is some prior knowledge why Bryan jumped in his truck and attempted to assist with the apprehension?

In the case of Bryan, I guess I'll have to hold my opinion on this for a later date. In his case I can see that there might be some more information that would change my opinion of his role in this crime.

Concerning the McMichaels, I have yet to see anything that changes my opinion of their role. Nor can I imagine any new evidence that would change my mind concerning them.

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Freedom isn't free.

I don't think the full video of the pursuit has been released. The pursuit may well have been longer than the recording. It now seems that 3 men in 2 trucks, at least 2 of whom admit to being armed, pursued Arbery, tried to block him with their vehicles, for "four minutes"... before pulling ahead of him to again block him to confront Arbery gun in hand. The video is from the perspective of the second pursuing vehicle chasing Arbery to that confrontation.

Stepping back... this reminds me of a deer drive...

If we just add chase dogs to the mix... it would look like pursuing fugitive slaves from before the Civil War.

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

If so, who cares? Play stuipd games win stupid prizes.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Reality, in a white neighborhood on Ga, you think a black guy pounding on a white guys door is going to go well?

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

If thise of you that thnk this whole thing is a farse, flip it around. A white dude in a black neighborhood chased, confronted & shot by 2 black men. I am sure your viewpoint would be totally diff. I am sure the white, racist community would be calling for murder 1. Please, as a white guy, this is embarrassing.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

You have no information that proves any of the suspects were racist. That is your opinion. So other people were on video looking at the house. So was Arbery, or at the least another black guy who wasn't pursued that day.

You have no idea what information the Michaels had at the time they got into their truck.

You have no idea if the crime suspected was a misdemeanor. And I don't care what the DA states he WOULD charge, either. An arrest is made by the cop on the scene based on probable cause. A DA charges after an investigation is conducted and based upon what charges they can make stick. Truthfully, 98% of arrests never even make it to trial. A sweet plea bargain deal is offered, the suspect takes it, and the DA gets another conviction to brag about. Taking what the DA SAYS would be the crime AFTER the fact means nothing to me. The media has painted Arbery as an innocent lass out for his afternoon constitutional. They're not gonna state the crime suspected WAS a felony.

ALL that matters is what the Georgia penal law says. If a house under renovation is STILL CONSIDERED A RESIDENCE, then Arbery being in there IS a felony. It doesn't matter if nobody else had been arrested before that day. I can speed to work every day and not get pulled over. When I finally do, I can't go to court and say "but I have done that 100 times before and never been charged". Doesn't matter.

Here's the Georgia Penal Law definition of Burglary:

In Georgia, burglary is defined as the breaking and entering into any structure with the intent to commit a felony therein. You must intend to commit an underlying offense, which can be a crime against property, such as theft; or a crime against a person, such as assault. Like other Georgia criminal charges, burglary can be charged in different degrees according to the severity of the crime. O.C.G.A. §16-7-1.

You commit First Degree Burglary if you enter or remain within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant dwelling house of another or any building, railroad car, watercraft, aircraft, or other such structure for use as the dwelling of another without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein. O.C.G.A. §16-7-1. A person found guilty of burglary in the first degree will be convicted of a felony and will be punished by a prison sentence of one to twenty years. If you are convicted of burglary in the first-degree burglary a second time, you will be found guilty of a felony and will be punished by a prison sentence for two to twenty years. For a third or subsequent conviction of burglary, you will be guilty of a felony and will face a prison term for no less than five and no more than twenty-five years.

*******You commit Second Degree Burglary when you enter or remain in an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein. The punishment if found guilty of second-degree burglary is a prison sentence for a period from one to eight years.*******

Essentially the difference between First and Second Degree Burglary is whether or not the structure was intended to be a dwelling or not. If the structure is, in fact, a home, then you have committed first degree. If not a dwelling, then second degree.

******In Georgia, burglary in the second degree is a felony. The punishment for a first conviction of burglary in the second degree is one to five years in prison. Any subsequent convictions of burglary in the second degree come with the punishment of imprisonment for one to eight years.******


The video we have seen of Arbery in the house is 3 minutes long. We have seen seconds of it. The outside video shows him looking before running in, and then running away when he is confronted. So nobody has all the facts. Some people, like yourself, have made up their minds that the Michaels are racist and they had no prior knowledge of Arbery. We don't know any of that, yet.

What I do know is what the cop has probable cause to arrest for and what the DA eventually formally charges are two very different things, especially given the pressure the DA is going to be under to placate to the angry "No Justice, No Peace" crowds. Since the father is a former cop, I am sure he has arrested people and charged them with burglary, and then the DA reduced the charges.


Sorry, but this case is not as cut and dried as you believe. The REAL question is will they get a fair trial? I say no way in Hell. They're done, facts be damned.

This thread has run it's course and everyone has had a chance to express their opinion. Now is the time to wait for the facts to come out. Closed.

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John. SWCA #1586

We won’t solve anything here and this is delving into racial issues.
Let’s wait for the jury to come in and see how this pans out.

It’s always best to avoid conflict whenever possible.

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"I also cook."