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Old 05-11-2020, 02:29 AM
PERA PERA is offline
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For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why?  
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Default For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why?

From my experience, the best weapon for concealed transportation and self defense is the Smith & Wesson Model 60 cal 357 Mag. 2-inch revolver.
Reasons:
1. It is a weapon that never fails.

2. You are always ready to shoot immediately by simply pressing the trigger.

3. Being a 357 Mag. Caliber, it allows the use of 38 Spl + p + reloaded ammunition. Or the one that you feel safe and at ease knowing that you are not going to damage your weapon.

4. It is stainless steel, this allows you to use it in a hidden way without worrying about humidity or acid manipulations that will not damage your weapon. Doing minimal maintenance.

5. It weighs only 21 ounces, which allows you to carry it very comfortably, you forget that you carry it in a waist cover and you can eventually carry it in a pocket of a jacket or pants. The weight will help you control the weapon.

6. The FBI maintains that having 5 ammunitions in your weapon is sufficient for any defensive confrontation. The fact is that the forensic statistics show that all the shootings the first 2 or 3 shots define your luck. Either you shot or dissuaded your attacker or you were shot.
We are talking about self-defense, that is, the immediate response to a surprise attack in a city environment. Not in attacking, that is, not in an offensive but a defensive confrontation.

7. A great advantage of the revolver over the pistol, which is little talked about, is that you have your revolver loaded so you can keep it that way for months on your light table next to your bed and when you need to defend yourself, you just have to take your gun and press your trigger and voila. While a gun requires that you empty your magazine at least once every 15 days and rotate it, this is to let your magazine spring rest, otherwise the reliability of the gun can be highly compromised by what is Engineer calls "fatga of materials".

8. The S&W Model 60 is very accurate.
I am an experienced average shooter, and I can group the full load of 5 shells into 2 inches at 15 yards with a 2 second time between shots. Holding the weapon with one hand.

†9. So why do I want a Glock 19 or a Sig 365 ?, I have no better stopping power, no better trigger, I only gain in firepower, this is having more ammunition, this will not add me for self defense.
†Another serious thing for police or military use, in which the scene of carrying out acts of attack on crime is a possible scene or the confrontation against a gang of criminals who act in a commando manner. But none of this is an expected scenario for a defensive civil citizen.

In any case, the flat revolver in 2 "or up to 4" is a valid military and police option as a second weapon. In fact it is a frequent practice to carry a revolver, as a second weapon. In the Vietnam War the Model 60 was in frequent use, both for officers or troop personnel as a second weapon.

Detectives of Special Agencies in covert activities, was a frequent practice as a hidden primary weapon, both the model 60 and Chief 36, or any of the J frame versions.

10. I think it appropriate to remember, the concept that one thing is self-defense and another is combat or aggression. In other words, it is one thing to respond to an attack or a threat. And another thing is to enter a combat confrontation.

11. Remember the FBI's premise: "the first 2 or 3 shots define the defensive confrontations", or you killed or dissuaded the threat or you were killed, so in any of the 2 scenarios, it is not necessary and you will not use the rest of ammunition.

12. By the way, there is a psychological factor that weighs and helps in a confrontation. So if you feel safe carrying a Glock or a Sig 365, or another weapon with 19 ammunition, it is valid. But for the security and attitude of feeling safe with what he carries.

13. Experts and facts demonstrate that the skill of the shooter is much more important and defend the result in a confrontation than the weapon that is handled, as long as the weapon is reliable.

A skilled marksman makes deadly impacts with a 22 lr pistol.

I am not inviting or suggesting you drop your 9mm for a 22 lr. I say that if you face a trained and determined professional opponent or shooter, you will not be in advantage even if you carry a much more powerful weapon, with more firepower, latest model.

14. That is why it is so important that you practice as much as possible with your chosen weapon, and that you master it as an extension of yourself. So the aesthetic factor and personal taste also matters. The weapon that you choose to carry must like you, it must be reliable and you must know the benefits and limitations of your weapon.

15. One final thought, the best weapon is the one you choose to carry skillfully. Depending on the circumstances, this also includes choosing not to carry a weapon.
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:00 AM
Breakaway500 Breakaway500 is offline
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For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why?  
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You wont get any argument from me.
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:33 AM
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:57 AM
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Default One Point

Your post is a bit long for a thorough response. One point I'd like to make is that I've left magazines loaded for years at a time without incident and with full reliability. Don't know where you got the information that magazines must be unloaded and relaxed every 15 days.
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Old 05-11-2020, 08:37 AM
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You forgot about the tiny wee little grip that will have you re-grasping the pistol with every shot fired, thus extending the time you can shoot.

Personally I enjoy shooting my Model 36. It's a challenge to shoot well with but a rewarding little pistol. However the tiny grip is a deal breaker for me. Yeah I know that larger grips are available, problem is they require a shift from pocket to waistband.

I have not ever had my Ruger LC9S fail and an extra 3 rounds does provide a bit of extra re-assurance. Which is why I keep one in my pocket.
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Old 05-11-2020, 08:48 AM
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Your first point is problematic since revolvers do fail. With good quality, properly maintained guns and good ammo, I think there is far less difference between revolvers and semi-autos in terms of reliability than many seem to suggest.

At the end of the day, they each have their strengths and weaknesses. People have to decide for themselves which combination suits their needs/wants.

This is aside from the fact that this has been discussed maaaaaaaaaany times.

Is it time for another caliber debate?

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Old 05-11-2020, 09:17 AM
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Semi-auto vs. revolver
Reloads vs. factory loads
Open carry vs. concealed carry
9mm vs. .45 ACP
Model 1911 vs. everything else

We've been there before, many times.
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Old 05-11-2020, 09:29 AM
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The OP's post has started hundreds of articles in the gun rags for many decades.....only forgot to have a best caliber for bears in it!

Randy
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Old 05-11-2020, 09:52 AM
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Just in order of what I disagree with...

1) All weapons can fail... revolvers included. To say otherwise is living in a dreamworld.

2) The external safety is an option on the P365... so Iíd call that one a draw.

4) The P365 has a blackened stainless slide.

5) Iím guessing that is unloaded weight, since it is similar to S&Wís website (21.4 ounces). The P365, unloaded with a 10 round magazine, weighs 17.8 ounces. Unsure of what you are going with that. My 9mm 642 weighs 14.4 ounces... some argue too light to shoot. Personally, I prefer a lighter gun since I carry it most of the time.

6) Find me the guy that said, ďMan, I walked into this gunfight with too many rounds!Ē My gun holds five... carry either two or three reloads on me, with an extra moonclip in my truck.

7) As stated, magazines donít need to be downloaded. My duty gun (H&K P2000) has magazines that are left loaded anywhere from six months to a year (our qualifications have been suspended due to COVID-19, so might not shoot again until we switch to the new Glocks). When I go back in on Wednesday, I know that gun will fire every round on my belt... and the one magazine on my vest, without issue.

8) Iíve yet to hear anyone with a P365 complaining about accuracy. Most handguns are more accurate than the shooter.

9) Unsure what you are going with here, but go back to #6. Still, L/E tend to be issued a firearm... and not usually going to be having a P365 for duty use. Unsure about the scenario you are talking about, but I carry a similar gun (J-frame) most of the time off duty (I did switch in a Glock 30S over the winter, since I could hide it better with heavier clothes).

In regards to the other two paragraphs, L/E may carry revolvers as backups. Depends on a lot of different things. Does the agency allow a backup gun (mine does not... hell, we canít even fly with a personal weapon)? If they do, who supplies it?

Thatís all well/good that previous generations of L/E carried J-frames... but if someone carries a Glock 19, youíd be more likely to see a Glock 26 on their ankle than a revolver. Just for a capability standpoint... your primary gun takes a dump, wouldnít you rather have your backup take the same magazines?

10) I think you are meaning something else... but are doing a bad job describing it. If I have to pull my gun, it is due to a threat. Some crackhead trying to steal money from me is on the same realm as me walking into a Walmart with an active shooter. Only difference is if I can... Iím grabbing the AR pistol in my truck with the latter.

Sorry, but when there is a threat, it is usually stopped by offensive action. Pulling your gun and firing is offensive. If you are going to try and not say it is aggression, think we are going to have to disagree on this. Might not be the original source of aggression, but it is aggression, nonetheless. Canít cut that any other way.

11) I kind of stopped listening to the FBI after Miami... but go back to #6.

15) From like #12 on, I was chalking it up to your own view. Hey, you are allowed to believe whatever you wish. This one... kind of takes the legs out of your entire post. And I do not mean any disrespect... just pointing out what I see.

You mention carrying what you are skillful with. That is a great view. But didnít you just try to argue how the 60 is better than the P365? I mean, if you want to carry a 60... good. For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? I carry a 642. But if someone wants to carry a P365, and shoots it the best... whatís the problem?

But the part about not carrying a weapon... really get some disagreement from me on. The only time I donít carry is when I go into Canada. When that happens, I stop into work... which is literally right before you cross the border... and toss my gun in my box. Come back through, stop in and grab it. While I understand there are times where you canít carry... choosing not to does not put you in any sort of tactical advantage. If you are going to argue it that way... why carry at all?
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:29 AM
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#7. Metal fatigue requires resting the magazine at least once every 15 days???? Sorry - you lost me at that point.
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:39 AM
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Carry what you want. Your last point was the only one that was important. I find that I shoot my P365 better than any of my J-frames.
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Old 05-11-2020, 11:14 AM
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Whatever floats yer boat.
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Old 05-11-2020, 11:25 AM
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To each their own. Rule #1 of Gun Fighting is to bring a gun, and you've most certainly got that covered.

Personally, I carry a SW40VE and a Ruger LCP. Do I need to carry a double-stack .40cal plus a micro .380? Probably not, hopefully not, but I can carry both of them comfortably, so why not?
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:40 PM
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Like the man at the carnival said "Ya pays your money, Ya takes your chances"

Carry whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy. For me personally, that's not a J Frame. YMMV
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:57 PM
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I carry a gun.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:02 PM
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#5: The carry weight (fully loaded with round in chamber) of my SIG 365 with a 12 round magazine is 24.4 ounces. That is 0.4 ounces LIGHTER than my model 60-15 with five rounds. The difference in carry weight between the two firearms is insignificant.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:06 PM
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Someone from the ďI hate striker fired guns clubĒ send you over here?
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:10 PM
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I actually carry a P365 and a 640 daily- I win!
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Old 05-11-2020, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyena View Post
#7. Metal fatigue requires resting the magazine at least once every 15 days???? Sorry - you lost me at that point.
He lost me too with that and I am a Mechanical Engineer. Springs fail due to cyclic stresses and a magazine sitting somewhere is not producing ANY cyclic stresses. If you keep the stresses in a spring below the Fatigue Limit it will last darned near forever. BTW, unloading and then reloading a magazine is exactly one Cycle, so doing as you suggest can actually shorten the life of a magazine spring by a few cycles.
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Old 05-11-2020, 05:25 PM
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I have both and don't typically carry either. S&W 360J rides along when light & small is important. SIG P238 fills the same niche - more often than the 360. Both are underpowered; I make up for that by staying home, a lot. Are we getting bored while stuck at home home? ...
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:24 PM
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:47 PM
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There's another advantage to a revolver: if a round fails to fire (rare but happens) another trigger pull clears it while a pistol is tap & rack, much slower. OTOH a pistol has the advantage of faster reload in the case of multiple assailants (again, rare but happens). I have & carry both 60 & 365 since they operate exactly the same, point & mash the bang switch. The times I needed a gun a revolver worked just fine (don't ask). pick what you like & practice & can hit consistently - only solid hits count.
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Old 05-11-2020, 07:09 PM
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they don't make Barami Hip-Grip for the sig.
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Old 05-11-2020, 07:10 PM
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This thread is boring, but it's better than the dead jogger.
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Old 05-11-2020, 07:49 PM
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I will stick with my Sig P226.
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Old 05-11-2020, 07:54 PM
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When we walk out the door we each have our own decision / choice as to what type or caliber of weapon we will carry. I've carried a gun as a LEO since 1976 -2018 every day. I still carry under the LEOSA. Still employed as a civilian with the PD. Having said this, I've carried revolvers from 1976-1992. Semi-autos from 1992 to present. I'm a big fan of the model 60. I carried one for many years as a back up gun and for off duty. But, after the switch to semi automatics took place, I take advantage of their extra capacity to enhance survival. You can't say you will only need 2-3 shots to survive your encounter. You may need 8-10 with a reload. Even as a citizen.

We buried a retired police sergeant in St Louis a few years ago, who after being retired for 11 years, got in to a shoot out with two car jackers armed with a 9mm pistol, as he was pulling up in front of a relative's home to do some babysitting. Ralph Harper had a five shot chief special. The 15 year old carjacker killed Harper in front of his loving wife. The kid who killed Harper was 15 years old. Look it up. In St Louis Mo.

So as you make your decision as to what you will carry, realize that you cannot control all the variables that you may encounter. Often times wolves travel in a group of two or more.

We all love J frame Smith & Wessons, however around 1987 a revolution in handguns took place that changed the way police officers have armed themselves. To do otherwise would mean that you could be outgunned.

Criminals have changed what they are armed with since 1987 as well. They like to carry what cops carry. One of the most common pistols seized from criminals today are Glock pistols.

I respect your choice to carry a model 60. I can't bring myself to limit my survivability, based on what I've seen over my 40 years in police work. I love revolvers. That's why we are all here.

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Old 05-11-2020, 08:36 PM
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I carried a J frame as a backup/off duty gun for years. Since retirement, I carried a 940 for several years. I bought a P365 and have never looked back. For me, carrying a 940, it was the same caliber with over twice the capacity and even being an "old revolver guy," the Sig carries better.

I've posted these photos before, but they can be convincing.








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Old 05-11-2020, 08:40 PM
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Agree, falrifles. If you don't have a choice but to get involved, be prepared. Around here, THE most common pistols seized from criminals are High Points. Which they call Glocks, BTW.
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Old 05-12-2020, 04:08 AM
PERA PERA is offline
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First of all I want to thank each of who participated in this thread.

My apologies for writing a lot. There was no need for sarcasm.

I have enjoyed each of your opinions coincidences and learned from your discrepancies.

I will put it this way, I have bought all the best that money can buy to defend myself. And it's like a never ending race, something new always comes out that promises wonders.
I wondered if the topic I wrote was the correct attitude and the result, which summoned us in this thread.
Simply put, the S&W 60 works for me.

I am already a veteran, my dear deceased father, always carried a Smith & Wesson 5-bolt model 10 from 1930. Only once did he have to face a shooting and it was enough with a shot from my dad to solve it.

I have a thought, debatable as all thoughts, I prefer to carry different weapons according to the occasion and not a multi-occasion. I know how everything is debatable.

Times have changed I know. Crime, as one forista said, uses Glock and most go from two to three criminals to do their misdeeds.

That is, the way things are, on the street, or we are killed by crime or the Coronavirus.

While all of this is true, I still think that the marksman's ability is more important than the weapon itself, but I accept that everything counts.

As for my recommendation to rotate the magazines and not keep them full for long periods, it is a fact and a common practice in the military routine of weapon maintenance.

I accept that doing it every 15 days is a personal decision and it is surely exaggerated, I usually do it when it comes to security.

†Personally, I usually put one less ammunition in the magazine when I am going to leave it loaded for a long time, so as not to demand it. But I repeat it is my decision, it does not have to be yours.

†But believe me, if it is plausible with failures, if you leave a magazine loaded for a long period, the springs usually come to an end.

This failure is more frequent in low quality magazines.
Of course, in quality weapons, this failure is minimized a lot, and it may never happen to you. It is also a good practice to ensure reliability of your pistol, follow the recommendation.

Just my 2 cents.
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Luck !

Last edited by PERA; 05-12-2020 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:01 AM
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Default Con el deseo que las disfruten les comparto mis reinas

I present to you my queens and my alternation, depending on where I go with hidden carrying.

My most frequent S&W 60

A clarification that perhaps was not understood, I think that when you have the responsibility of carrying a weapon, it is as important to know when you should take your weapon out of its holster as when you should leave your weapon in its holster still.

Just to think about it.

Health
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Old 05-12-2020, 07:13 AM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
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pera Glad your pleased with your snubby . I retired mine some 18 to 20 years ago . I hate it when some guy tells me what the FBI says as that changes as needed and if 5 shoots really was enough they would not need the high cap pistol they carry now . Beside a 357mag or 38+P+ what ever that is has rather limited energy and velocity when fired from a short barrel . At least be smart enough to roll your 38+P+ in 357mag brass , so your not having to deal with crud build up in the chamber !! . Oh yea 38sp +P+ is what a mild 357mag Really mild from a 2" barrel . Load 357mag brass mild makes way more sense .

So you think a revolver is sooo dependable ??

Wait till you have a primer back out the tiniest bit when fired . That little snubby is just a rock at that point . No tap rap bang drill will help . Force and you bend the crane and turn it into a paper weight .

Carry what you comfortable with , just don't try to blow smoke up anyones rear end over how great your snubby is as most of use have been there decades ago .

OH , how about you showing a video of your shooting skills with 5 rounds in a 2" group at 15 yards with 1 second per shot splits .


Wow so much fluff.
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:10 AM
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I carried a 60 as a backup and off duty for years and felt very comfortable with it. But times have changed as far as I'm concerned. The wolves very seldom are alone and seem to run in packs of at least two. I'm very happy these days either carrying my Shield 9 with the 8 round mag and the 7 round in my weak side pocket. Or more so lately a 365 with an extra 12 round magazine.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:34 AM
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Threads like this make me wonder if to OP's really sincere, or just trying to rattle as many cages as possible. If it's the former, and a revolver's his choice, carry on. If it's the latter, he succeeded, big time.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:16 AM
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The weight difference between a steel J frame (heavier) and a 12 rd P365 is negligible.
Yeah, I know, who needs more than five?



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Old 05-12-2020, 10:10 PM
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Pera:

The truth be told, my model 60 is long gone. So is my 642. I've considered buying a 640. I ended up with an LCR .38 a couple years ago, gifted from an elderly woman that I trained to shoot. I haven't carried it. It sits in the back of my safe. Might be good to have in my jacket pocket while pheasant hunting in the fall.

I don't carry a Sig 365 at all. My EDC is a Glock 43 with a Vickers magazine extension. If I'm going somewhere that I feel the need for more firepower, I pack my Glock 19 gen 3. I've carried that pistol since 1998. I always carry a spare magazine.

Be safe.

Last edited by falrifles; 05-12-2020 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:54 PM
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I carry a P365 whenever I have to go to Houston. If I am around Seabrook where I live I carry either a Sig 238 or Ruger LCPII depending on what I am wearing the Ruger is small and good with shorts. They all shoot great.
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:51 PM
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Clearly - I'm a big fan of both. M60-9(w/Lobo Enhanced) & P365 (w/Vedder). Although since I added the grip sleeve it's the P365 75% of the time. During Jul/Aug down here in Texas the M642 will see a lot more duty. Still love my J's.
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:58 PM
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I do like my 3 inch barreled model 60. It has a full grip and recoil is very manageable.
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:01 AM
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My issued Gen 2 Glock 23 was retired w/me in ‘97 and it was locked in a safe w/all three mags fully loaded for 10 years. When I finally took it to the range it ran w/o a single problem.
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Old 05-30-2020, 11:19 AM
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I have at least as many revolvers as I do semi-autos, with 4 of the revolvers being J-frames. As you might guess, I feel quite comfortable with them and carry them often. However, there are advantages to the small 9mm semis, as well. Circumstances and conditions often dictate what I carry. Might add, there are a number of fallacies in the OP's post, most of which have already been addressed.
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Old 05-30-2020, 01:06 PM
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If I were standing at a gun counter today, I’d pick the 365 over the J frame for SD.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH4 View Post
If I were standing at a gun counter today, Iíd pick the 365 over the J frame for SD.
I'm almost afraid to ask, when was the last time you stood at a gun counter?

Last edited by Wood & Steel; 06-01-2020 at 01:39 AM.
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  #43  
Old 06-02-2020, 02:09 AM
PERA PERA is offline
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Default A material subject to permanent pressure deforms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
He lost me too with that and I am a Mechanical Engineer. Springs fail due to cyclic stresses and a magazine sitting somewhere is not producing ANY cyclic stresses. If you keep the stresses in a spring below the Fatigue Limit it will last darned near forever. BTW, unloading and then reloading a magazine is exactly one Cycle, so doing as you suggest can actually shorten the life of a magazine spring by a few cycles.
Dear Sir, although your statement on the technical concept of "resistance of materials" is related to the cycles, as you mention compression and decompression. A material, in this case the spring of a magazine when subjected to a permanent load, is experiencing, over a period of time, a deformation of the material. Resenting its elastic property, this effect is known in mechanical engineering as "creep" and is one of the variables together with the "resistance of materials" that we Engineering Experts use when we are going to calculate a spring for a specific function . As you will understand explaining all of this exceeds the objectives of the thread topic. But you deserved a technical answer about it.
In summary, if a magazine remains compressed for a long time, its spring with ammunition fills the capacity of the magazine, it is subject to break or at least lose the adequate elasticity for correct operation.
By the way, the manufacturer calculated the spring so that this does not happen, but this does not mean that it does not happen. But sometimes it does, and it is good practice for a gunsmith to avoid leaving a full magazine for too long, as long as possible.
Thanks for your attention.
Luck !
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Old 06-02-2020, 03:02 AM
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Pooh.

3 or 4 bad guys, you have 5 bullets and no reload?


365 gives you 11 in the gun, 15 more in the stick magazine you carry in the other pocket


It's your life. I carry a 365.
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:15 AM
Screwball Screwball is online now
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For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why? For concealed carry S&W 60 over Sig 365. Why?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PERA View Post
Dear Sir, although your statement on the technical concept of "resistance of materials" is related to the cycles, as you mention compression and decompression. A material, in this case the spring of a magazine when subjected to a permanent load, is experiencing, over a period of time, a deformation of the material. Resenting its elastic property, this effect is known in mechanical engineering as "creep" and is one of the variables together with the "resistance of materials" that we Engineering Experts use when we are going to calculate a spring for a specific function . As you will understand explaining all of this exceeds the objectives of the thread topic. But you deserved a technical answer about it.
In summary, if a magazine remains compressed for a long time, its spring with ammunition fills the capacity of the magazine, it is subject to break or at least lose the adequate elasticity for correct operation.
By the way, the manufacturer calculated the spring so that this does not happen, but this does not mean that it does not happen. But sometimes it does, and it is good practice for a gunsmith to avoid leaving a full magazine for too long, as long as possible.
Thanks for your attention.
Luck !
You would think youíd see examples of this, considering most L/E leave their magazines loaded with duty ammo until qualifications (either quarterly or twice a year). Post an example...
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