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Old 05-17-2020, 12:14 PM
jim lock jim lock is offline
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Default Practice Drawing?

The ranges I frequent do not allow drawing from holster. After reading and commenting on a "cross draw" post I'm wondering how you actually practice (or do you?) drawing, aiming and getting sight picture, sight alignment etc. etc. . from different clothes that we wear or positions we're in and the weapons we use ????
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:22 PM
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You stand in front of a mirror. Did the same thing learning to draw for a Sam Brown rig. Every time you got the latest holster you had to go to the mirror. When we qualified you tested what you had learned. Remember the weapon is always loaded. No not in front of the mirror! Just treat it that way.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:45 PM
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The times that I'm alone at the range will be practice time for drawing from holster.
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:05 PM
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Dry practice is your friend. The issue with the vast majority of people ccw is they dont practice as much as they should. Basic marksmanship is about all most indoor tanges offer. While better than nothing, it isn't how ypu will fight. So if you cant practice properly live with your carry gear, then dry practice is even more important. You will never get to that sub 1.5sec presentation without a lot of practice.
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:06 PM
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I bought a new IJ .22 revolver one time and I don't think I shot over 3 or 4 boxes of shells in it but I wore it out standing in my bedroom practicing my quick draw. I don't have any idea how many times it came out and went back in the holster but the last time was a bunch faster than the first. Larry
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:09 PM
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Practicing infront of a mirror and using a laser cartridge! You can see where you would be hitting. Another thing is when practicing or firing double handed, push forward with your gun hand and resist with your weak hand. This stabilizes your pistol and prevents it from recoiling and jumping around when you are firing live.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:35 PM
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Dry fire practice. Get some snap caps and you can incorporate reloading and malfunction clearing drills, as well as one-handed manipulations, awkward positions, etc. Just be mindful of the status of your gun and reloads, and where the muzzle is pointed. If at all possible, set up some kind of backstop, like a bookcase full of books, stacked up boxes or bins, etc. Don't have any live ammo in the area. If possible, set aside one room as your practice zone, or "safe space." No live ammo allowed. And always check and recheck the status of your gun and reloads. And yes, I know I'm mentioning that more than once. For a reason.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:56 PM
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Took a X-ray of a Young Fella one night who had shot his middle toe on his right foot practicing his fast draw. That little 22 hit the proximal phalanx of his middle toe dead center. Probably ended his quick draw days. Hugh


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Old 05-17-2020, 04:20 PM
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Took a X-ray of a Young Fella one night who had shot his middle toe on his right foot practicing his fast draw. That little 22 hit the proximal phalanx of his middle toe dead center. Probably ended his quick draw days. Hugh
A good reminder to not only start with an unloaded gun, but to start slow. Get the mechanics down before ever putting your finger on the trigger. When you get the hang of it, start picking up speed, but never at the cost of smoothness. Only when you can consistently draw and "fire" an unloaded gun with the muzzle pointed "downrange" should you attempt any live fire practice, and then start over by going slow and getting it right (and SAFELY!) before trying to go faster.

Or, even better, get some hands-on instruction from a qualified instructor.
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jim lock View Post
The ranges I frequent do not allow drawing from holster. After reading and commenting on a "cross draw" post I'm wondering how you actually practice (or do you?) drawing, aiming and getting sight picture, sight alignment etc. etc. . from different clothes that we wear or positions we're in and the weapons we use ????
Jim
Did some of that in IPSC. Some in practice and some in competition. Later I realized that if you really need a "fast draw" to save your bacon you probably already lost. Keyword is awareness.

Edit. When it hits the fan best place for an handgun to be...is in the hand.
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:36 PM
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And remember there's never a rush to re-holster your gun - that should be a slow and careful maneuver as you visually make sure there's no shirt hanging out etc that could catch the trigger as you re-holster it.
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:58 PM
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And remember there's never a rush to re-holster your gun - that should be a slow and careful maneuver as you visually make sure there's no shirt hanging out etc that could catch the trigger as you re-holster it.
Great point. Itís easy in dryfire to be so focused on the draw that you rush the reholster. Dryfire is the place to always practice that slow deliberate reholster. Itís frustrating during practice because the reholster takes way longer than the draw, but thatís where you build the habit.
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:40 AM
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Practicing infront of a mirror and using a laser cartridge! You can see where you would be hitting. Another thing is when practicing or firing double handed, push forward with your gun hand and resist with your weak hand. This stabilizes your pistol and prevents it from recoiling and jumping around when you are firing live.
The push pull is a bit old school, Weaver style, but does work.
You dont really need anything more for good dry practice but an empty gun, holster & reduced size target. The lazer is a nice tool but not reqd.
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:45 AM
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Did some of that in IPSC. Some in practice and some in competition. Later I realized that if you really need a "fast draw" to save your bacon you probably already lost. Keyword is awareness.

Edit. When it hits the fan best place for an handgun to be...is in the hand.
While true, unfortunately too many think all they need is the situational awareness. On the street you need everything. Good skills & good SA, one without the other is half ready.
The knife attack is where you can see it all come together. They are generally wicked fast. If you can see it develope, your response time is half with your hand on the gun, half again with the gun out at low ready.
We Have all heard smooth is fast & mostly that is true. Dry practice doesn't have to be fast at all, just go for smooth. After about 1000 presentations at smooth, the speed starts coming. I agree, you are not likely winning your fight with a rapid presentation, but you could lose getting your gun stuck during the presentation.
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Old 05-18-2020, 01:06 PM
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Kathy Jackson from CorneredCat offers some great advice on drawing practice and other topics related to "My Range Won't Let Me..." here... My Range Won’t Let Me…! | Cornered Cat
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:25 PM
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I practice at an outdoor range and I am normally alone. I spend time practicing my drawing every time in going shooting. I concentrate on the draw and the re-holstering. I draw fire and reinsert, I don't try to fast draw, it's draw and fire. Did I forget to say Draw aim and fire. I do this with one hand and two handed grip.
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:02 PM
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I practice at an outdoor range and I am normally alone. I spend time practicing my drawing every time in going shooting. I concentrate on the draw and the re-holstering. I draw fire and reinsert, I don't try to fast draw, it's draw and fire. Did I forget to say Draw aim and fire. I do this with one hand and two handed grip.
Again, you dont have to go to the range. Dry fire is the cheap way to get really good at presentations. It should be smooth & then as fast as you can get the hit. A presentation to hit under 2sec at 7y from concealed is totally doable for avg shooters. Start with 2.5sec as your goal then work it down. Really good shooters, even old guys can get close to 1sec for first hit from concealment. Dry fire is how you start & get there.
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
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Took a X-ray of a Young Fella one night who had shot his middle toe on his right foot practicing his fast draw. That little 22 hit the proximal phalanx of his middle toe dead center. Probably ended his quick draw days. Hugh


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An important part of the slow, deliberate practice to learn the correct "form" and steps of eventual rapid engagement ability is to keep the finger OFF the trigger until the gun points at least two meters ahead of your feet. With a two-handed grip, this is about the time the support hand meets the strong hand. The practice should look like slow-motion Chinese exercise, concentrating on proper form, speeding up only as form stays good. When you can fire the first shot from draw 1 sec from the buzzer with proper form, you are really smooth.
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Old 05-27-2020, 11:11 PM
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Iím a big fan of laser training, it has the added benefit of letting you practice in your own home. It opens your eyes as to where you should and should not shoot in different situations. You can get the cartridges on amazon as well. I have 9mm and .223.
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:32 PM
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Iím a big fan of laser training, it has the added benefit of letting you practice in your own home. It opens your eyes as to where you should and should not shoot in different situations. You can get the cartridges on amazon as well. I have 9mm and .223.
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Hhm, just how does a laser tool help with shoot dont shoot?
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:37 PM
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The push pull is a bit old school, Weaver style, but does work.
Isometric tension isn't limited to Weaver. Can be used in virtually all stances/arm positions and does both stabilize the firearm and reduce muzzle rise.
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:43 PM
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Living in the middle of a National Forest allows all types of practice while hiking daily..
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:00 PM
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Isometric tension isn't limited to Weaver. Can be used in virtually all stances/arm positions and does both stabilize the firearm and reduce muzzle rise.
Wasnt questioning tension but Weaver. I used to shoot it, then you realize there is a better way when shooting fast. In modern isco, there really isnt really push pull tension. I'm 64, I shoot/hit faster now than when I was 44. Neber to late to learn.
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:23 PM
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I use a laser training cartridge out in my shed. There's a B27 target tacked up on one end of the room. I stand about 5 yards away, draw and fire. It let's me know where I hit and whether I'm jerking the trigger or not. Repetition eventually makes the draw smoother and faster and more accurate.
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:54 PM
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In modern isco, there really isnt really push pull tension.
I use Isoceles and push-pull tension. It helps with stability and control. IIRC, there was a video of Rob Leatham discussing the role of push-pull in Isoceles.

Edit: Found the video...

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Old 06-05-2020, 09:37 AM
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I'm 64.............neber to late to learn.
True sprout, but isosceles isn't possible for all or under all conditions. Also doesn't necessarily mean the arms are locked out, you'll see some top competitors flex the elbows horizontally.

Practicing with a mirror isn't a good idea. It gives you cues on holster location and other things that the real world doesn't. You want to train muscle memory.

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Old 06-05-2020, 10:27 AM
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Took a X-ray of a Young Fella one night who had shot his middle toe on his right foot practicing his fast draw.

Several years ago, I had a work associate that I hadn't seen for a while. Came over to my house with a distinct limp.

He was doing quick draw with his 629..shot himself in the hip. Nearly lost his leg..
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Old 06-06-2020, 02:10 PM
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"if you really need a "fast draw" to save your bacon you probably already lost. Keyword is awareness".

Considering that drawing and shooting for self-defense, legally, is usually 7 to 21 feet- you don't have a lot of time to respond. A person attacking with a knife can cover 21 feet in 1 1/2 seconds. A woman recently was videoed attacking a police officer outside a police station. She was shot after repeatedly chasing him with the knife. She was so close and fast that it was difficult to defend himself.
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Old 06-06-2020, 04:18 PM
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I picked up an iTarget at a gun show pretty cheap. It has different modes like quick draw and target. Gives good feedback and scoring.
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:21 PM
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Three yards, three rounds, three seconds. According to master defensive firearms instructor Tom Givens, most gunfights in which trained civilians are involved take place at a distance of approximately three to five yards, approximately three and one-half rounds are fired, and no further shooting takes place after approximately three seconds. It is abundantly clear: concealed carriers need to be capable of quickly accessing their handgun and getting it into a firing position quickly enough to put it to good use if confronted by another who represents a legitimate threat to life and limb.

I'm uncertain as to how you fire 3 1/2 rounds!

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Old 06-08-2020, 09:21 PM
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[QUOTE=Dvan34;140799061

I'm uncertain as to how you fire 3 1/2 rounds![/QUOTE]

That would be seven 9 m/m. Larry
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:55 PM
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True sprout, but isosceles isn't possible for all or under all conditions. Also doesn't necessarily mean the arms are locked out, you'll see some top competitors flex the elbows horizontally.

Practicing with a mirror isn't a good idea. It gives you cues on holster location and other things that the real world doesn't. You want to train muscle memory.
You never heard me say lock your elbows, nor use a mirror. All top shooters I see, which is quite a lot, don't lock their elbows or use weaver. Fwiw, weaver isnt possible under all conditions, no shooting style is. Fighting with a gun is more dynamic than one shooting style.
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:01 AM
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Three yards, three rounds, three seconds. According to master defensive firearms instructor Tom Givens, most gunfights in which trained civilians are involved take place at a distance of approximately three to five yards, approximately three and one-half rounds are fired, and no further shooting takes place after approximately three seconds. It is abundantly clear: concealed carriers need to be capable of quickly accessing their handgun and getting it into a firing position quickly enough to put it to good use if confronted by another who represents a legitimate threat to life and limb.

I'm uncertain as to how you fire 3 1/2 rounds!
Its obviously an average shots fired. It would be hard to argue with the stats, there are always outliers. I know plenty of ccw & leo that cant get one good hit in 3sec much less 3-4. Traning & practice are essential. I can show you how to get 3 good hits in 1.5 sec from concealed, but you never get there without a lot of practice.
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:52 AM
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Again, you dont have to go to the range. Dry fire is the cheap way to get really good at presentations.
As some gee-whiz kids might say, dry fire is "old school". A good
reminder that "what works, works" and being trendy, hip and
chic doesn't equate to effective.
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Old 06-10-2020, 11:34 PM
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Fighting with a gun is more dynamic than one shooting style.
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While true, unfortunately too many think all they need is the situational awareness. On the street you need everything. Good skills & good SA, one without the other is half ready. The knife attack is where you can see it all come together. They are generally wicked fast.
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We Have all heard smooth is fast & mostly that is true. Dry practice doesn't have to be fast at all, just go for smooth. After about 1000 presentations at smooth, the speed starts coming. I agree, you are not likely winning your fight with a rapid presentation, but you could lose getting your gun stuck during the presentation.
Let's not forget that the guy that said "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." wasn't just pontificating from a position of only having ever fired his handgun in training and competition. He had actually backed it up a time or two against people who really were trying to kill him.

The range I go to allows drawing from the holster and moving while you shoot (Given you have the bay to yourself). I never try to beat the clock unless I'm actually qualifying with a time requirement. I simply repeat my draw over and over and over again until its muscle memory.

I've told this story before but I used to have a job that required me to do security checks on utilities properties all over the county. I walked around fences out in the sticks all night long and practiced my four point draw slowly all night long. I probably drew that gun 100 times every night. Never fast, always by the numbers 1,2,3,4 reholster.

I was getting ready to leave for work one night when someone started shooting at the end of the parking lot. It wasn't till I hit the ground that I realized the gun was already in my hand.
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Last edited by Smoke; 06-10-2020 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:00 AM
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fredj338 fredj338 is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve912 View Post
As some gee-whiz kids might say, dry fire is "old school". A good
reminder that "what works, works" and being trendy, hip and
chic doesn't equate to effective.
I know plenty of young guys that dry fire. it's best bang for your buck ingraining gun handling abilities. Presenting, reloading reholstering, transitions, all good stuff. Then fine tune with live ammo on the range.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:43 PM
stepnez stepnez is offline
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I will stand 3-5 yrds from the target swipe my shirt then draw and double tap the torso with strong hand only. I don't focus on speed but am aware of my speed. I like smooth and controlled. I will bring my gun up to supported grip after the double tap then re-holster. My range allows this type of draw but discourages the more western type speed draw. Having steel competitions monthly helps with our being able to practice defensive drawing.
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