Wish this was over in the shotgun resurgence thread... all the more reason to leave the bird shot to the bird hunting.

Well said gents. Shot placement trumps caliber.

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Freedom isn't free.

I can't see myself concerned about drywall penetration when my life or the life of my loved ones depends on my marksmanship.

I've done this, it's like the Energizer bunny-it keeps on going, and going and .......... bullet does stay intact and stable as proved by holes in targets beyond. If you want to cause that bullet to fragment outside of tissue, you need 1/4 in steel plate. BTW, the bullet does create a substantial hole in the plate and what exits the plate is molten steel and fragments capable of causing serious injury.

Someone above mentioned frangible/pre-fragmented bullets earlier. Sheetrock doesn't stop them. In the case of Glasers, I know of one ND (didn't double check prior to dry fire) that passed through the wall and into the duplex on the other side. No injuries-no one home, but don't recall where it ended up.

I tried the Barnes RRLP and even on angles it stayed intact-destabilized and tumbled, but intact. I expect a 55 gr bullet going sideways at ~2900 f/s is still potentially lethal. Bullet really intended for use on reactive steel targets at close range.

In a riot choke, shot soreads about 1" per yard. So across a decent size room, 6-7" spread. The shot isnt heavy enough to penetrate much beyond surface of meat after just 4 layers of denim. If I have to shoot someone, it is serious enough to win the fight & #4 buck will do just fine.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I think we need some more jello tests, maybe add some drywall just to make it interesting.

We could always do what the US Army did back in the 30's, 40's, 50's, and 60's, and compare all our ammo by shooting live goats, sheet, or pigs. No reason we couldn't add some drywall just to make it interesting. Don't let the local PETA folks hear about what we're doing; they might get all tense and upset.

Just thinking about it and realized that I kind of like my drywall. Please try not to shoot it, even if your jello block is on the other side.

I'm going too get tense and upset about shooting jello because I like it especially with fruit in it. I have never been attacked or threatened in any way by jello and I don't see any logical reason to shoot it. Larry

Use .45 ACP. It'll plow right thru the grapefruit wedges. It won't deflect like little 9mm bullets.

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I've still got it made.

This is ever so interesting.

That is the essence of the problem. The fact remains that there is no target too close or too big that you cannot miss it with a handgun. Except maybe touching distance. And you don't want to be that close to a home invader.

There is no doubt about that. To test that theory I tried an experiment on an old, dilapidated barn. I was dove hunting, the shotgun was loaded with #7.5 or #8 birdshot, there were no birds, and I was bored. So I decided to see what the birdshot could do against corrugated steel barn walls.

I wasn't really close. Ten, maybe twelve feet away. But not much more than that and in a home you could be considerably further away from a bad guy. But, anyway, the birdshot blew a 6" or larger hole right through that steel!

Jim Cirillo was right, of course, there's always that time that you could have a failure to stop. But I still load my HD shotguns with birdshot. There are 9mm and .38 Special handguns at the ready, too.

My personal good news is that I don't have any sleeping loved ones in another room. And in my newly rebuilt-from-the-ground-up home the external walls are all brick so unless a window is penetrated my neighbors won't have flying projectiles coming to them. So if a home invasion occurs I don't need to think about over penetration - because I used all of that brick with that in mind. Thank you Col. Cooper......

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Come and take it!!

Missing.

The NYPD went to hollow point pistol ammunition for the expressed purpose of reducing "over penetration." Not for such as "better stopping power."

The irony being that the annual police department reports showed that NY officers missed with

83%

. . . of their shots.

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I've still got it made.

You didn't mention whether you were living in an apartment complex or if you had anyone in any adjacent rooms living with you. If neither, I wouldn't change anything.

If you're concerned about over-penetration there are various frangible handgun rounds on the market or you could go with a slow, heavy round like a .44spl JHP that makes big holes but tends not to over penetrate much.

A normal sheetrock covered wall is considered concealment not cover. There may come a time when you will have to take advantage of that fact. There have been many urban fire fights through walls and floors.

Ray,
We (the Army) did this into the 70 - 90's, that I know if, for Special Forces medical training.
We had to bring the goats into the lab at about 2 AM so as not to be seen by PETA and other such groups.
A Vet would give them anesthesia so they didn't feel any pain. They, usually six, would be strapped to a wood frame
so they could be precisely targeted in the ballistics lab and then shot.

The SF Medic students then had to keep them alive for a given number of days.
Then the Vet would administer a fatal dose in the IV tube. The goats were then used
for more classes on tooth extraction, broken bone splinting, ECT, that didn't need a live animal.

And no, nobody ate Cabrito that night.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

I had a commercial bullet casting business. Naturally I needed to test the product. I tested a lot of loads fresh off the press before I loaded a boat load of them... including bought JHPs. In constructing my test area, I lugged buckets of beach sand and filled paper bags with it, all in a row. Conveniently the paper bags were 6" deep. About all JHP loads, max 357 loads, 41 mag, 45acp would penetrate into the third bag, penetration of 12-18 inches in fine beach sand. Bullets fully expanded. I got the same penetration range in LSWC ammo.
I wouldn't count on something stopping bullets without planned hardening like a steel plate.

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what I was thinking, why drug them when you could eat them!!!! Oh, well.................

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Come and take it!!