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Old 06-06-2020, 11:09 AM
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Old 06-06-2020, 11:31 PM
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The problem I see with open carry is when the bad guys come in they will know who to kill first.
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Old 06-07-2020, 12:10 AM
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The problem I see with open carry is when the bad guys come in they will know who to kill first.
Exactly.

The question I have for those who OC is this: If a thug decides to take your gun, and points his at your face, what are your plans then?

Even when I open carry in the woods, I always have a back-up concealed.
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:14 AM
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I find it interesting that so many believe thugs are so brave they would seek out an armed man to attack . Have you ever been assulted and robbed?
They aren't brave and don't want to come up against an armed victim...
the thug might get hurt ...old , unarmed and alone make muck better prey.

Open Carry all you want ... you will not be singled out for attack ...thugs like easy prey not prey that's openly armed and will give them a fight.

To the OP ...Congratulations on your Open Carry , Keep on Keeping On !
Louisiana has always been an open carry state , no permit required !
I have never , in the last 50 years , been assaulted while open carrying , the only time I was shot and robbed was when I was unarmed and alone in my office . The bad guy made sure I was alone and unarmed before producing his hidden pistol and firing 4 shots at arms length . The outcome would have been much different if I had been open carrying that morning ... So you open carry whenever you want or feel the need .
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
I find it interesting that so many believe thugs are so brave they would seek out an armed man to attack . Have you ever been assulted and robbed?
They aren't brave and don't want to come up against an armed victim...
the thug might get hurt ...old , unarmed and alone make muck better prey.

Open Carry all you want ... you will not be singled out for attack ...thugs like easy prey not prey that's openly armed and will give them a fight.
Except that it has happened before, so it's definitely a possibility. Off the top of my head, I recall a story, I believe in VA, where an open carrier got jumped from behind and had his gun stolen.
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:25 AM
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Since I only use bandannas or shemaghs I would truly HATE going into a bank looking like a terrorist or a hold-up artist!

Hey, I know where you can find a good lawyer...
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:14 AM
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See it in my area, especially at the area WallyWorld.
Evidently, Uncle Mike's or BagMaster black nylon is THE go-to OC holster in my area.
Just not my thing, even though 100% legal.
Back when I had a real job and OC'ed with a badge on the belt, it seemed to make me a nut magnet.
I no longer get paid to have drawn out contact with people peppering me with questions, challenges and what-if's.

YMMV, and that's fine.
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
I find it interesting that so many believe thugs are so brave they would seek out an armed man to attack . Have you ever been assulted and robbed?
They aren't brave and don't want to come up against an armed victim...
the thug might get hurt ...old , unarmed and alone make muck better prey.

Open Carry all you want ... you will not be singled out for attack ...thugs like easy prey not prey that's openly armed and will give them a fight.

To the OP ...Congratulations on your Open Carry , Keep on Keeping On !
Louisiana has always been an open carry state , no permit required !
I have never , in the last 50 years , been assaulted while open carrying , the only time I was shot and robbed was when I was unarmed and alone in my office . The bad guy made sure I was alone and unarmed before producing his hidden pistol and firing 4 shots at arms length . The outcome would have been much different if I had been open carrying that morning ... So you open carry whenever you want or feel the need .
Gary
I question the "element of surprise" that some who CC condemn those who OC for giving up. If accosted by an armed bad guy, they think they will be able deploy their concealed weapon before the armed bad guy can?

I've read about lots of encounters, both here and other places, where a bad guy committed a crime in an establishment or on the street where he thought (both mistakenly and not) his victims were unarmed. I've also read
about encounters where a suspected bad guy entered an establishment, saw someone OC, and promptly left. Deterrence wins over a crime taking place.
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Old 06-07-2020, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
I find it interesting that so many believe thugs are so brave they would seek out an armed man to attack . Have you ever been assulted and robbed?
They aren't brave and don't want to come up against an armed victim...
the thug might get hurt ...old , unarmed and alone make muck better prey.

Open Carry all you want ... you will not be singled out for attack ...thugs like easy prey not prey that's openly armed and will give them a fight.

To the OP ...Congratulations on your Open Carry , Keep on Keeping On !
Louisiana has always been an open carry state , no permit required !
I have never , in the last 50 years , been assaulted while open carrying , the only time I was shot and robbed was when I was unarmed and alone in my office . The bad guy made sure I was alone and unarmed before producing his hidden pistol and firing 4 shots at arms length . The outcome would have been much different if I had been open carrying that morning ... So you open carry whenever you want or feel the need .
Gary
Walked out of my house one night on my way to work. In uniform and open carrying on a duty belt. Two guys tried to rob me. I will grant that my uniform and gun were black and it was dark. They may not have known I was armed until I drew.

Had some little street rat threaten to knock me down and take my gun. No question he knew I was armed.

Had another crackhead try to take my gun in a Kum&Go one night at work. Again, in uniform and clearly armed. Again, no question he knew I was armed.

Had a lunatic threaten to kill me with an axe at work one morning. At work, in uniform, clearly armed. The gun didn't phase him in the slightest. The OC did.

Not a gun grab per se but a crackhead walked into a 7-11 where I was waiting for a gas receipt one morning. With zero provocation on my part walked up to me and screamed in my face "I'm security around here (insert foul language relating to your female parent of choice) and what was I going to do about it. Again clearly not intimidated by the gun but as soon as I unsnapped my OC he found business elsewhere.

If you want to open carry you had better have a plan for WHEN someone tries to take it off you.

Your Milage May (and very likely does) vary.
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Old 06-07-2020, 05:52 PM
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I've been traveling a right smart here in the last little bit....

When getting gas or an item er two at the Quick Stop.

I jest Mexican carry my Gov't model....No troubles.

.
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Old 06-07-2020, 06:30 PM
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Walked out of my house one night on my way to work. In uniform and open carrying on a duty belt. Two guys tried to rob me. I will grant that my uniform and gun were black and it was dark. They may not have known I was armed until I drew.

Had some little street rat threaten to knock me down and take my gun. No question he knew I was armed.

Had another crackhead try to take my gun in a Kum&Go one night at work. Again, in uniform and clearly armed. Again, no question he knew I was armed.

Had a lunatic threaten to kill me with an axe at work one morning. At work, in uniform, clearly armed. The gun didn't phase him in the slightest. The OC did.

Not a gun grab per se but a crackhead walked into a 7-11 where I was waiting for a gas receipt one morning. With zero provocation on my part walked up to me and screamed in my face "I'm security around here (insert foul language relating to your female parent of choice) and what was I going to do about it. Again clearly not intimidated by the gun but as soon as I unsnapped my OC he found business elsewhere.

If you want to open carry you had better have a plan for WHEN someone tries to take it off you.

Your Milage May (and very likely does) vary.
Yes, yes, and yes. ^^^^

If you're carrying a gun for fun or because you can, my suggestion is you get one in chocolate in case you have to eat it, perhaps in suppository in case it ends up somewhere surprising.

Tweakers, gangbangers, and folks in the drug street retail business want guns. If you have one and are looking the other direction or unlikely to use yours, they may well 'try' you to get yours. Most of these folks aren't afraid of the law, and certainly not afraid you'll really shoot them. Neither are folks who are drunk, high, enraged, or bat-**** crazy.

A gun is neither a magic wand nor bulletproof bubble.

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Old 06-07-2020, 07:01 PM
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No snark intended but how does one exercise their right to open carry with "love"?
They carry a S&W....That true love !!!

Speaking of love....I really like these threads..

I get a look at who all's in the shallow end of the think tank

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Old 06-07-2020, 07:32 PM
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I have open carried but, it has been a long time and as a rule I just don't do it as I don't like to advertise the fact that i'm armed.
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:37 PM
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I occasionally see open carry around here. Nobody seems to pay much attention. Pretty gun friendly. I occasionally open carry during hunting season, but thats about it. I do admit that sometimes in the summer I probably print some.

Main thing about open carry is it makes some people uncomfortable. I see no reason to make decent people uncomfortable. To me thats bad manners. Ya, I got a right to open carry, I got the right to pass gas in a restaurant to. Don't mean I do.

Interestingly in Montana it is illegal to concealed carry where they serve alcohol, in a bank or to be under the influence while carrying concealed. But, the way the law is written this does NOT apply to open carry.
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:36 PM
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How about a couple of unarmed thugs in a restaurant who see you carrying and start screwing with you, asking you if you're a cop, if you're scared of something, vulgarly questioning your manhood, making ethnic slurs, and daring you to pull out your gun and start shooting, all of this while a gang banging buddy streams the incident in a live, countercultural adaptation of 'counting coup'?

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Old 06-07-2020, 10:34 PM
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How about a couple of unarmed thugs in a restaurant who see you carrying and start screwing with you, asking you if you're a cop, if you're scared of something, vulgarly questioning your manhood, making ethnic slurs, and daring you to pull out your gun and start shooting, all of this while a gang banging buddy streams the incident in a live, countercultural adaptation of 'counting coup'?
Nowadays, this scenario is not far-fetched at all!
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:35 PM
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Yes. I used this actual example purposely.
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:13 PM
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If a thug (or thugs) decides he wants your gun, and points his gun at your face, what is your plan?

Anyone else who OC's (excluding LEO, of course) who reads this, please feel free to respond. I've always been curious about this.
My first thought is if a thug has his gun in your face there were multiple failures BUT the guy that tried to take my gun was sitting on a trash can outside the Kum&Go and made his decision completely on impulse. I walked past him, he came off the trash can and started trying to close distance on me.
I quartered on him and he backed down.

If someone had their gun in my face I think I'd have to fight because I'm pretty sure they'd shoot me anyway. So, I'm better off trying.
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Old 06-08-2020, 12:11 AM
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Just remembered the time I picked up a S&W from my FFL guys place, A 4"K frame. On the way home I stopped for gas and a soda at the corner gas station. Not wanting to leave it sit in my truck, which I never lock or remove the keys from, I just stuck it in my front pants pocket. The butt was fairly visible. When paying for the soda. The lady at the counter, who knew me as a regular, asked, "Happy to see me or is that a pistol in your pocket?" "Both" I replied, then explained I had just picked it up. She didn't care one bit. Just conversation.
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Old 06-08-2020, 03:11 AM
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Absent good judgement, open carry is pointless, rude, and utterly counter productive. Only fools abuse their rights.
I actually agree with that. But there were violent "protesters" in the streets last week and I was just ensuring that I had easy access to my handgun. Otherwise, I dislike open carry a great deal. I could have thrown a vest over the gun but it was hot and I was disinclined to do that especially because of the street riots.
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Old 06-08-2020, 03:50 AM
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My first thought is if a thug has his gun in your face there were multiple failures BUT the guy that tried to take my gun was sitting on a trash can outside the Kum&Go and made his decision completely on impulse. I walked past him, he came off the trash can and started trying to close distance on me.
I quartered on him and he backed down.

If someone had their gun in my face I think I'd have to fight because I'm pretty sure they'd shoot me anyway. So, I'm better off trying.
Fair enough, I certainly understand open carry because of a job requirement, when it's part of your uniform. But do you OC when dressed in regular clothing?
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:51 AM
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But do you OC when dressed in regular clothing?
Absolutely not.

I haven't open carried outside of work in almost 10 years. If somebody else wants to open carry that's fine. I don't have a problem with it but in my experience it causes more problems than it solves
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Old 06-08-2020, 08:48 AM
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Except that it has happened before, so it's definitely a possibility. Off the top of my head, I recall a story, I believe in VA, where an open carrier got jumped from behind and had his gun stolen.
Don't give me a third hand "story"...give me a real life example of where you have been open carrying and assaulted .
I gave you my real life experiences of what has happened to me when open carrying and when not open carrying ... lets hear of the time you were open carrying and singled out for assault.
Since 2004 I open carry in my office and not one attempted robbery has taken place ... I wonder why !
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Old 06-08-2020, 09:00 AM
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Last year they had 24 hour fireworks stands. Some are in remote places. I went into one at 1 a.m. on my way home from work and saw a guy open carrying. It seemed perfectly sensible at that time and place.
I fish in those areas - alone. I've thought about open carrying when I'm sitting on the bank but haven't. I CC instead.
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Old 06-08-2020, 09:13 AM
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Don't give me a third hand "story"...give me a real life example of where you have been open carrying and assaulted .
I gave you my real life experiences of what has happened to me when open carrying and when not open carrying ... lets hear of the time you were open carrying and singled out for assault.
Since 2004 I open carry in my office and not one attempted robbery has taken place ... I wonder why !
Gary
That makes absolutely no sense. Here's what your "logic" is saying: I've never known anyone who's been killed in a car accident. I've never been killed in a car accident. Therefore, nobody's ever been killed in a car accident.

Just because I don't have firsthand experience doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Of course, this is aside from the fact you completely ignored a member who did post his firsthand experience.

Oh, I found the story I mentioned as reported in the news: Man wearing handgun open carry robbed in Newport News, police say - Daily Press
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Old 06-08-2020, 10:10 AM
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People have some imagination with boogeymen appearing out of nowhere being drawn to their gun like some sort of magnet.
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Old 06-08-2020, 10:22 AM
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Don't give me a third hand "story"...give me a real life example of where you have been open carrying and assaulted .
I DID give you my first hand story. In fact I responded directly to you with several first hand stories.

Do you think the guys that went after me while I was wearing body armor and a duty belt and had spray and a gun and reloads and radio and looked like the Terminator wouldn't have gone after you?

You just haven't run into the right crackhead yet.
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Old 06-08-2020, 10:34 AM
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People have some imagination with boogeymen appearing out of nowhere being drawn to their gun like some sort of magnet.
Mike,
I've open carried on the job forever and a day....

Never once did a boogeyman jump me or any one else for that matter.


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Old 06-08-2020, 11:08 AM
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I think there are times when open carry is a good idea and times when concealed is a better solution. There is no one size fits all solution like so many try to make it.

Sometimes open carry may make you a target, sometimes, it may deter the criminal and make them find an easier target. You really never know until it happens or doesn't happen. All criminals are not the same nor do they act the same in a given situation.

I think if you are knowingly going to where you know folks might be fearful, you should conceal. Even though it is our right to open carry, it is also two gay guys right to kiss in front of me. Do I want them to do that in front of me? No, it offends me, but it is their right. I would prefer they respect me and not offend me on purpose. Same goes for open carry.

That being said, if you are running a pawn shop, convenience store, liquor store or the like. Open carry is a big deterrent for a robbery I think. Good time to open carry, but still up to the store owner if they think it is a good idea or not.

Myself prefer to conceal, I like the option of not having to deploy my weapon until I choose. If you are caught in a bank robbery and do not want to get involved, you can keep concealed, if you are open carry, odds are, you are going to be involved, like it or not.

I have open carried on occasion, i.e., just came out of woods from hunting and have my pistol on my hip exposed. Especially in the rural areas, most folks are used to it, so it doesn't matter. However, when I stop by Walmart, I untuck my shirt or throw a vest/jacket over it. May not be so concerned about "printing" or it peeking out in some places, but not standing proud either. Most non-gun folks will never notice you printing unless it is plainly obvious.

Elderly or person in wheelchair, open carry might be a good idea. It says, I am not helpless, don't mess with me.

Rosewood

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Old 06-08-2020, 11:08 AM
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Some places open carry is no big deal, some it is impolite, some it is illegal, some it is not wise. Around here the booger man isn't going to grab your gun, no one is going to freak out. Down town LA might well be different. I am not going to find out for myself.
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:17 AM
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If open carry is legal, I don't know why the police would respond if the call is just for a guy carrying a gun. It's kind of like the police pulling someone over for driving under the speed limit.

However, some guy in BDUs along with carrying an AR would be a reason for the cops to respond because of concerns that the guy isn't playing with a full deck. But some guy in jeans and a tee shirt with a pistol on his hip shouldn't cause a police rollout in a state where it's legal.
Because the police do not know the guy's intentions with the gun. The can't just assume he is a law abiding, gun carrying good guy.
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Old 06-08-2020, 01:10 PM
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Because the police do not know the guy's intentions with the gun. The can't just assume he is a law abiding, gun carrying good guy.
They don' t know the intentions of the person that called it in either. They may be shoplifting and trying to distract.

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Old 06-08-2020, 01:17 PM
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Some places open carry is no big deal, some it is impolite, some it is illegal, some it is not wise.
...
Wait!! Are you trying to say there isnít a universal rule that applies to everyone, everywhere, all the time? That context matters and people have to make their own choices based on their own circumstances? Outrageous! How can that be possible?
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Old 06-08-2020, 03:26 PM
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They don' t know the intentions of the person that called it in either. They may be shoplifting and trying to distract.

Rosewood
There's a story about a little boy and a wolf, the police CAN NOT assume someone is a good guy, or a bad guy simply from someone making a police report. If they get called a 100 times about a man/woman with a gun they have to respond 100 times.
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:43 PM
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There's a story about a little boy and a wolf, the police CAN NOT assume someone is a good guy, or a bad guy simply from someone making a police report. If they get called a 100 times about a man/woman with a gun they have to respond 100 times.
About a year ago someone walked down the street in front of where I work with a rifle in their hand. One of the client employee supervisors told me to call the cops. I hadn't intended to but once he told me to do it I didn't have a choice.

Anyway, I called and the dispatcher told me that they weren't sending a car because it was a legal activity.

The wierd thing is about ten minutes after I hung up FIVE cop cars showed up looking for the guy.
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Old 06-08-2020, 07:30 PM
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Today on my way home from work a man flagged me down from his porch. I stopped and man who I am slightly acquainted with walked up to my patrol car.He had a handgun that looked like a smith pistol of some sort in a holster on his side . He wanted me to talk to a young man that had been released to his custody to work and showing up late or not coming in.We had a good talk laughed about it being hard to get up sometimes.And we agreed the judge didn’t need to know.
The point is I didn’t get excited about seeing a gun.I didn’t call for backup I didn’t try to take his gun while we talked because this is Tn and legal.
Oh yeah did I mention this is a all black’Neighborhood that has a few shootings a year.As a old white cop I have been traveling thru there for years .A lot of people there wave at me even some I know are on parole.
Just because someone is carrying a gun openly he is not a suspect
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:01 PM
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There's a story about a little boy and a wolf, the police CAN NOT assume someone is a good guy, or a bad guy simply from someone making a police report. If they get called a 100 times about a man/woman with a gun they have to respond 100 times.
Ok, so say someone calls the police because you have a gun, the police show up and start asking you questions about whether you are legal or not. If you haven't done anything wrong, isn't that a violation of the 4th Amendment? What is the probable cause here if your actions are legal?

Rosewood
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:46 PM
Old Arkansawyer Old Arkansawyer is offline
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I suppose I have a right to walk down any street in any city or town in
the U.S. with a $100.00 dollar bill in my hand, even after dark.
But, good judgement tells me not to do such.
Open carry and concealed carry are both legal here without a permit
and I do see open carry at times. On some of these occasions I think
the person is just wanting attention, or a want to be of some kind.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:22 PM
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Ok, so say someone calls the police because you have a gun, the police show up and start asking you questions about whether you are legal or not. If you haven't done anything wrong, isn't that a violation of the 4th Amendment? What is the probable cause here if your actions are legal?

Rosewood
Police only need 'reasonable suspicion' to stop and question - what's reasonable depends on the circumstances, and ultimately, a court may have to decide if the stop was or wasn't reasonable.

Reasonable suspicion is a lower standard than probable cause, which in turn is a lower standard than proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Make sense?

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Old 06-09-2020, 02:54 PM
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Police only need 'reasonable suspicion' to stop and question - what's reasonable depends on the circumstances, and ultimately, a court may have to decide if the stop was or wasn't reasonable.

Reasonable suspicion is a lower standard than probable cause, which in turn is a lower standard than proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Make sense?
Sorry, you are wrong.

The phrase is reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime is afoot. In other words, the officer must be able to articulate a specific crime that he or she believes you have broken, are breaking, or will break. They cannot detain you for odd behavior, a weird hairdo, or wearing a watch. There has to be a crime.

Reasonable articulable suspicion to detain (seize).
Probable cause to arrest.

So if open carry is not illegal, the police cannot detain you for mere open carry- period, end of sentence.

It doesn't matter if someone called and reported it; if the report was for mere open carry, the police cannot detain you.

As to 'reasonable', it all comes down to what the officer knew at the time of the stop. If the officer knew you were lawfully carrying, it would be illegal for him to detain you. During the early years of open carry in WA, there were a dozen or so out-of-court settlements where the open carry person was paid lots of money to prevent a lawsuit against the officers and agencies that detained them. I know one guy used his to buy his-&-hers new motorcycles, and other that collected around $10K when he was illegally detained by an airport police agency (yes, you may open carry in the airport).

Note also that if the officer knew, or reasonably should have known, that he was detaining a person (a seizure is a deprivation of a civil right) without reasonable articulable suspicion, he could lose his qualified immunity and sued civilly as well. In other words, he could lose his assets like his house or vehicles.

Can they "talk" to you about it? Of course, as can anyone else. You are not obligated to talk to the officer, show ID, or a carry permit/license. In such a case you may simply walk away, and for several reasons you should.

Hereís the kicker; you have the same right to privacy while carrying concealed, or not carrying at all, as you do when youíre carrying openly. It seems like the height of foolishness to carry a firearm, even concealed, and not know when and how the police are allowed to detain you.
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Old 06-09-2020, 03:01 PM
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There's a story about a little boy and a wolf, the police CAN NOT assume someone is a good guy, or a bad guy simply from someone making a police report. If they get called a 100 times about a man/woman with a gun they have to respond 100 times.
When I lived in Tacoma (the most crime infested city in the Pacific Northwest) I was listening to the scanner and they dispatched two cars for a Ďman with a guní call. The first officer on scene radioed in and cancelled the other car, reported it was just an open carry, and drove off without ever getting out of the car.

I know first-hand as well. I was in Wright Park walking laps one morning and passed a woman hissing into her phone about my open carry- furious the dispatcher wasnít going to send anyone. They didnít, and I continued my walk without ever seeing a police officer.

Not sure where you got that information, but it is incorrect.

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Old 06-09-2020, 04:51 PM
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Sorry, you are wrong.

The phrase is reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime is afoot. In other words, the officer must be able to articulate a specific crime that he or she believes you have broken, are breaking, or will break. They cannot detain you for odd behavior, a weird hairdo, or wearing a watch. There has to be a crime.

Reasonable articulable suspicion to detain (seize).
Probable cause to arrest.

So if open carry is not illegal, the police cannot detain you for mere open carry- period, end of sentence.

It doesn't matter if someone called and reported it; if the report was for mere open carry, the police cannot detain you.

As to 'reasonable', it all comes down to what the officer knew at the time of the stop. If the officer knew you were lawfully carrying, it would be illegal for him to detain you. During the early years of open carry in WA, there were a dozen or so out-of-court settlements where the open carry person was paid lots of money to prevent a lawsuit against the officers and agencies that detained them. I know one guy used his to buy his-&-hers new motorcycles, and other that collected around $10K when he was illegally detained by an airport police agency (yes, you may open carry in the airport).

Note also that if the officer knew, or reasonably should have known, that he was detaining a person (a seizure is a deprivation of a civil right) without reasonable articulable suspicion, he could lose his qualified immunity and sued civilly as well. In other words, he could lose his assets like his house or vehicles.

Can they "talk" to you about it? Of course, as can anyone else. You are not obligated to talk to the officer, show ID, or a carry permit/license. In such a case you may simply walk away, and for several reasons you should.

Hereís the kicker; you have the same right to privacy while carrying concealed, or not carrying at all, as you do when youíre carrying openly. It seems like the height of foolishness to carry a firearm, even concealed, and not know when and how the police are allowed to detain you.
Then I guess the Supreme Court is wrong. Two cases cited here provide brief explanations and further reading. Reasonable Suspicion | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

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Old 06-09-2020, 07:33 PM
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Then I guess the Supreme Court is wrong. Two cases cited here provide brief explanations and further reading. Reasonable Suspicion | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute
No, they're not wrong, but your reading of it is. Notice the reference to Terry vs Ohio.

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Terry stops constitute a seizure under the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution because they are a temporary restriction of a personís liberty by means of show of authority or use of physical force. While considered a seizure, an investigatory stop does not need to be supported by probable cause; instead, it must only be justified by reasonable and articulable suspicion that the person stopped has committed a crime or is about to do so.
If open carry is not illegal, what suspicion of what crime could the LEO articulate to justify detaining you?

I suppose all those police agencies I mentioned were just giving their money away?
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:56 PM
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You as a guy carrying a firearm or wearing a red shirt or torn jeans or a Raiders jacket or carrying a frog gig have no idea what criminal activity the officers who might stop and question you might be investigating and why the might have that suspicion of you.

I see you want to argue, so I'm afraid I'll disappoint you. No matter - my post that seemed to offend you was to Rosewood and on the 3 most important Constitutional standards in criminal matters -- proof beyond a reasonable doubt (for conviction), probable cause (for searches or arrests), and reasonable suspicion (for an investigative stop).

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Old 06-09-2020, 11:16 PM
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You as a guy carrying a firearm or wearing a red shirt or torn jeans or a Raiders jacket or carrying a frog gig have no idea what criminal activity the officers who might stop and question you might be investigating and why the might have that suspicion of you.
Total straw-man and doesn't contradict anything I've said. Again, mere open carry isn't sufficient to warrant a seizure.

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I see you want to argue, so I'm afraid I'll disappoint you. No matter - my post that seemed to offend you was to Rosewood and on the 3 most important Constitutional standards in criminal matters -- proof beyond a reasonable doubt (for conviction), probable cause (for searches or arrests), and reasonable suspicion (for an investigative stop).
Argue? Offended? Lol, no. Been there, done that, walked away and/or collected the settlement money. You believe whatever you like, even if you have to move some goalposts to do it.
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Old 06-10-2020, 07:09 AM
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Are there any laws that says if a police officer wants to talk to you and ask questions you have to comply?

I know in GA, the law on carrying a firearm, a cop cannot ask to see your carry permit unless he has probable cause that you have done something wrong. Just seeing you carrying is no justification to require you to prove you have a permit.

Rosewood

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Old 06-10-2020, 07:01 PM
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Are there any laws that says if a police officer wants to talk to you and ask questions you have to comply?

I know in GA, the law on carrying a firearm, a cop cannot ask to see your carry permit unless he has probable cause that you have done something wrong. Just seeing you carrying is no justification to require you to prove you have a permit.

Rosewood
Nope. There must be 'reasonable suspicion' before the police may require you to stop and identify yourself. Laws requiring a walking person not committing some other infraction to stop and respond to police intrusion are not Constitutional. However, you don't know what the officer is investigating; I've stopped dozens of people on foot or in cars who matched a BOLO (be on the lookout) but brief conversation proved they weren't the right folks. On some occasions there was time to explain what was going on, sometimes not. A reasonable response usually resolves matters quickly.

What you describe in GA is called 'secondary enforcement;' if the police have some independent reason to believe you've committed some infraction, then they can talk to you about both the infraction or crime and also the permit.

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Old 06-10-2020, 07:32 PM
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I may be missing something but why is there this trend to want to mess with cops doing their job? What are they trying to prove, what’s the profit ?
If you ain’t the perp, co operate and let cop move on. As a citizen it is your duty. There are a few bad cops but a lot more bad guys.
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Old 06-11-2020, 06:23 AM
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I may be missing something but why is there this trend to want to mess with cops doing their job? What are they trying to prove, whatís the profit ?
If you ainít the perp, co operate and let cop move on. As a citizen it is your duty. There are a few bad cops but a lot more bad guys.
Don't take my questions as being against cops (I have a brother that is a cop). I just like to be aware of the laws. I fully intend to respond to any cop that wants to talk to me. In the event a cop was overly aggressive and overstepping the legal bounds, I like to know what my legal requirements are to be in compliance with the laws and what legal recourse I may have.

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Old 06-11-2020, 07:49 AM
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KSDeputy KSDeputy is offline
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I did it. Open carried for the first time. I did it. Open carried for the first time. I did it. Open carried for the first time. I did it. Open carried for the first time. I did it. Open carried for the first time.  
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Kansas law permits any law abiding citizen to carry concealed or openly. My personal opinion is open carry should be reserved for peace officers displaying a badge. The only time I carried openly was in uniform. I always carry a .45, but it is always concealed, and always will be. I have come upon people carrying openly in stores, etc. I have talked with them, but never about the way they are carrying. I do observe that other shoppers notice, and it seems to make them nervous.

Last edited by KSDeputy; 06-11-2020 at 07:51 AM.
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