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Old 06-24-2020, 03:30 PM
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Default You’re caught in this situation....

Current day possible incident.

Whatever reason, you had to go the a mid size or large city.
Wrong turn maybe, or you find yourself in a
sudden confrontation with a large protest group that have
managed to stop traffic on a main roadway.

Your blocked in.

The car in front of you is being attacked....windows broken
large crowd rocking the vehicle.
The driver in the vehicle to your front right is being dragged from
her truck.
Your rear window shatters...


Your armed.......

Last edited by Xfuzz; 06-24-2020 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:48 PM
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I'll bite. You put your vehicle in reverse and get the hell out of
dodge. If you have extra lubrication under your tires, so be it.
Your firearm is to repel boarders
Like Winston said:
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:51 PM
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Unfortunately, this scenario could be very likely and any response could be used to indicate premeditation. Therefore, I will exercise my right to remain silent
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:52 PM
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I took a defensive driving instructor school conducted by Anthony Scotti in Connecticut back in the day. Part of that training included executive protection. Don't get out of the car, drive out as fast as you can.
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:58 PM
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
I'll bite. You put your vehicle in reverse and get the hell out of
dodg
e. If you have extra lubrication under your tires, so be it.
Your firearm is to repel boarders
Like Winston said:
You might have to use the northern drivers trick of getting out of being stuck in snow! Its called rocking. Go forward and them backwards fast, each time you do that you should gain some space by moving vechicles if necessary. Consider the fact there is no bag limit, run over any rioter in your way. Go to the nearest safe place and report in. Feel sorry for the other driver, say a prayer or two for him but your gun is for you. Hey its a tough world out there you got to play hard to win.
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:59 PM
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I am a retired FEDERAL LEO.
I am always Armed, 24/7/365.
I taught defensive driving on our skid pad.
When we drive to Reno for supplies, we are always looking for probable problems that may impede our trip.
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:01 PM
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I don't have one, but it looks to be effective

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Old 06-24-2020, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
Unfortunately, this scenario could be very likely and any response could be used to indicate premeditation. Therefore, I will exercise my right to remain silent

Premeditation? Hardly, preparation, exactly.
Having a general plan of how you will respond in a given situation is the very basis of situational awareness. Referencing "The Tactical Edge-Surviving High Risk Patrol" by Charles Remsberg, chapter one, concerning violent encounters: "Positive self talk grounded in survival proficiency is an active ingredient of mental preparation, one means of giving yourself the will to match your skill....Officers who've not thought beforehand about this issue frequently hesitate when milliseconds count."
In other words, "what if" questions serve the valuable purpose of allowing us to discuss and envision a positive outcome for encounters that are sometimes beyond our control. And, since no one can envision every possible threat, I value these "what would you do threads."
If you change your mind concerning your fifth amendment rights I'd enjoy reading you thoughts.
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:17 PM
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I don't have one, but it looks to be effective

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Old 06-24-2020, 04:23 PM
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Check the law in your jurisdiction, but in most states, deadly force is deadly force. If are justified in using it, it doesn't matter (legally) whether it's a gun or a car or a golf club.

Personally, abandoning a vehicle that wasn't disabled wouldn't be my first choice.
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:31 PM
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Just keep in mind that all late model vehicles have a fuel pump shutoff that activates when airbags deploy. You can’t just move vehicles out of your way and expect to make an escape.
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:34 PM
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Two words -> Reginald Denny

It didn't work out well for him, and that is exactly why you must take immediate action to prevent injury or death.

In Texas, we have the law of parties. I would bet that a reasonable man would hold the crowd of rioters accountable as one under that law, or at least the one's in your immediate path to safety.
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:39 PM
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You said "dragged from her truck."

No way would I leave a woman in that situation.
I would start shooting, may not be so many brave souls when the shooting starts.

Last edited by Rocket3; 06-25-2020 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SAFireman View Post
I don't have one, but it looks to be effective

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I used to travel to South Africa a lot from about 1993 to about 2003 and the car jacking problem was so bad people really had these things on their cars. There was another system that had swords that popped out and chopped carjackers off at the ankles. Everyone I knew there was always armed.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:00 PM
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Your? or You're? I'm so confused.

I just better stay away from those cities.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:15 PM
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In the "what if" scenario the OP draws, unless your vehicle's equipped with something belt fed, you're SOL. Once your Glock 19 runs dry, the crowd will get you. Best idea? Stay away from anywhere trouble might bubble up. Failing that, find alternate routes to/from where you need to be.

Last edited by Donn; 06-24-2020 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RGPM1A View Post
I used to travel to South Africa a lot from about 1993 to about 2003 and the car jacking problem was so bad people really had these things on their cars. There was another system that had swords that popped out and chopped carjackers off at the ankles. Everyone I knew there was always armed.
I like the sword idea. The flamethrower looks like it would be hard on the paint job. With the swords, just run it through the nearest car wash before the blood dries. And who car jacks someone using a P-38?
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
Unfortunately, this scenario could be very likely and any response could be used to indicate premeditation. Therefore, I will exercise my right to remain silent
In fact, the situation itself precludes premeditation because you are set upon by surprise.


In this situation, because it has devolved to the point of someone breaking into your car, everyone else is on their own for the moment. You must take care of yourself first. If you don't, the debate about helping others is completely pointless.

If I'm armed, I'm defending my position as I can. Whether or not I leave the vehicle depends on how the situation is developing.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:35 PM
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And who car jacks someone using a P-38?
Very old Nazis

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Old 06-24-2020, 05:38 PM
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Always leave space between you and the vehicle in front so you have some room to move....... to the berm or divider.

Yesterday a shot or two into the ground (not the air) might be enough to scatter a crowd/mob........ not so sure about tomorrow......might just draw return fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:44 PM
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The trouble is, if you drive off and run over someone not directly threatening your life, you will likely be considered the aggressor.

This is a no win situation.

I'd sit and wait for a gap I could drive through without hitting anyone.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAFireman View Post
Two words -> Reginald Denny

It didn't work out well for him, and that is exactly why you must take immediate action to prevent injury or death.

In Texas, we have the law of parties. I would bet that a reasonable man would hold the crowd of rioters accountable as one under that law, or at least the one's in your immediate path to safety.
Iíve never understood why Denny opened the door to his truck or allowed it to be opened so he could be pulled from it. Itís been a long time since Iíve seen the video and donít really want to watch it again, so I canít remember which actually happened. He was in a defensible position if he had just kept his door locked and could have easily driven away slowly to safety. There is an effect called the Normalcy Bias, wherein a state of denial sets in and you convince yourself this can not really be happening to me. I think that may have been at play. The most glaring historical example usually given to illustrate the Normalcy Bias is during Nazi Germany when the Jews were being loaded onto railroad cars destined for concentration camps, the reason they didnít put up any resistance is because they were convinced (by themselves or the Germans) that it was only a short trip and everything would return to normal within a few days.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xfuzz View Post
Current day possible incident.

Whatever reason, you had to go the a mid size or large city.
Wrong turn maybe, or you find yourself in a
sudden confrontation with a large protest group that have
managed to stop traffic on a main roadway.

Your blocked in.

The car in front of you is being attacked....windows broken
large crowd rocking the vehicle.
The driver in the vehicle to your front right is being dragged from
her truck.
Your rear window shatters...


Your armed.......
Doesn't change.
Avoid
Evade
Escape
Defend
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Old 06-24-2020, 06:17 PM
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This should work:
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Old 06-24-2020, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
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Your? or You're? I'm so confused.

:
Thanks to whoever made the correction....

Sorry, I was pulled outta school during the 4th grade
to work the fields. We wuz po.
Thank the Lord for a G.E.D. and getting married to a
rich oil-mans daughter.
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Old 06-24-2020, 08:02 PM
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When the guy in Albuquerque got tired of getting whomped with a skateboard and drew and fired, the "peaceful protesters" scattered like cockroaches. Even the one that was hit. As suggested earlier, a round or two into the ground might buy enough time to get away. Just be sure you have plenty of ammo.
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Old 06-24-2020, 08:38 PM
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Well obviously I would let them kill me without putting up a fight. I'd much rather be savagely bludgeoned to death by honorless thugs than ever face the courtroom boogeymen or end up in prison. I mean, let's face it, with my long flowing locks, chiseled jawline, and deep blue eyes, I'd immediately become the object of desire amongst the entire cellblock.
I mean, I only bought a gun as a sort of good luck charm in hopes that simply carrying it would ward off all evil. Most folks would carry a crucifix or rosary beads or something, but I don't have the guts to stand before an earthly judge, much less a heavenly judge.

Seriously though, I'm of the sort who'd rather go down fighting, protecting those I love to the best of my abilities and striking down as many villains I could in the process. If I should survive and have to face a bunch of greasy lawyers, then I'll accept full responsibilies for my actions, make my case, and should the law be against me, then so be it. It beats dying the disgraceful death of a coward along with all those who were counting on me.

I decided long ago that I would be the survivor and never the victim. I've seen too much evil, too much injustice, too many otherwise good people who didn't get involved because they were afraid of the consequences, and spent too much time bound by fear and despair, only to realize that when measured against everything that I had faced up to that point, especially my own demons, the fear of imprisonment or death paled in comparison. I was already a prisoner of fear and doubt. I've also already faced death, and did it with a smile on my face.

So yeah, I'd do everything in my power to avoid trouble, to stay safe, to be a just, honorable, and gentle man, but if it all comes down to allowing myself and others around me to be victimized by cowardly scum who prey on innocent people, then screw it, like hell am I just going to lay down and take it. If they want a riot, if they want blood, if they want fire and destruction, then they will have it.
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Old 06-24-2020, 09:04 PM
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When facing a crowd of angry protesters those "Plastic large magazines capacity glocks" don't seen so ugly compared to a all steel and wood Smith and Wesson six shot revolver.
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Old 06-24-2020, 09:57 PM
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Having been brought up in a state that doesn't trust it's residents, or grants them the constitutional right to self-defense, makes one leery of discussing how you'd react in such and such a situation. It is not all that uncommon here in the SSRNJ to see prosecutors build a case of premeditation against someone that had something at hand in the event of a threat against your person. As a result, you learn to not talk about what you plan to do.
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Old 06-24-2020, 09:58 PM
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You know, it’s still a self defense situation no matter who is the antagonist.
Matters not. If your life or safety is threatened you do what needs to be done and talk about it later.
No one gets a pass to threaten someone’s life or safety.
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Old 06-24-2020, 10:30 PM
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"I am the pure-hearted warrior awakened by rage... SON GOKU, THE SUPER SAIYAN!!!"
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Old 06-24-2020, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
Well obviously I would let them kill me without putting up a fight. I'd much rather be savagely bludgeoned to death by honorless thugs than ever face the courtroom boogeymen or end up in prison. I mean, let's face it, with my long flowing locks, chiseled jawline, and deep blue eyes, I'd immediately become the object of desire amongst the entire cellblock.
I mean, I only bought a gun as a sort of good luck charm in hopes that simply carrying it would ward off all evil. Most folks would carry a crucifix or rosary beads or something, but I don't have the guts to stand before an earthly judge, much less a heavenly judge.

Seriously though, I'm of the sort who'd rather go down fighting, protecting those I love to the best of my abilities and striking down as many villains I could in the process. If I should survive and have to face a bunch of greasy lawyers, then I'll accept full responsibilies for my actions, make my case, and should the law be against me, then so be it. It beats dying the disgraceful death of a coward along with all those who were counting on me.

I decided long ago that I would be the survivor and never the victim. I've seen too much evil, too much injustice, too many otherwise good people who didn't get involved because they were afraid of the consequences, and spent too much time bound by fear and despair, only to realize that when measured against everything that I had faced up to that point, especially my own demons, the fear of imprisonment or death paled in comparison. I was already a prisoner of fear and doubt. I've also already faced death, and did it with a smile on my face.

So yeah, I'd do everything in my power to avoid trouble, to stay safe, to be a just, honorable, and gentle man, but if it all comes down to allowing myself and others around me to be victimized by cowardly scum who prey on innocent people, then screw it, like hell am I just going to lay down and take it. If they want a riot, if they want blood, if they want fire and destruction, then they will have it.
(solomn nod)... Wut it is, man. Wut it IS...
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Old 06-24-2020, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cal44 View Post
The trouble is, if you drive off and run over someone not directly threatening your life, you will likely be considered the aggressor.

This is a no win situation.

I'd sit and wait for a gap I could drive through without hitting anyone.
You have a 3000 to 5000 pound lethal weapon under you. Everyone's life around you is being threatened and they broke your rear window. Find a way to drive. Don't play games with your life. Drive!
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Old 06-24-2020, 11:42 PM
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Sounds like a Kobiyashi Maru ?

I'm hoping for a full tank of gas too! You’re caught in this situation....
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:16 AM
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My daily driver has a rioter-resistant front end.

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Old 06-25-2020, 01:32 AM
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Sounds like a Kobiyashi Maru ?

I'm hoping for a full tank of gas too! You’re caught in this situation....
It's not a Kobiyashi Maru, my friend, and you don't need a full tank of gas. You need ten feet of room, or your vehicle's length, and your foot on the gas pedal to resolve the problem. And if you have less room then make room - it can be done. Save your gun for the last resort when you can't drive at all.

Rumor - nobody, not even anarchists, likes to be shot at, never mind "shot".

And you have to drive because if you don't they'll tip your vehicle over. So drive!
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:43 AM
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Many years ago, a guy tried to hit me with an aluminum baseball bat while I was driving his ex-wife's car. Self-preservation kicked in, and without even thinking about it I gunned it and swerved at him. He dropped the bat and ran. There's a lot more to this story, and it ultimately has a positive outcome. The point is that when self-preservation kicks in, you just never know what you're capable of.

And to address the question at hand, well, I just don't know what I'd do. But it would be something!
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Old 06-25-2020, 02:08 AM
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I am ordering a flame thrower for these types of situations.
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Old 06-25-2020, 05:45 AM
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My daily driver has a rioter-resistant front end.
Nice M1009! Is it still 24 volt?
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Old 06-25-2020, 06:20 AM
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OP, I see your from Texas..here ya go

Texas passed a Castle Doctrine law, removing the duty to retreat in one's home, in 1995. ... Under the law, a person's use of deadly force will be presumed reasonable if someone enters, or attempts to enter, that person's occupied home, vehicle or workplace "unlawfully and with force."

More reading

https://www.uslawshield.com/caught-i...ahead-of-time/
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Old 06-25-2020, 07:59 AM
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Nice M1009! Is it still 24 volt?
The starter is still 24volt, the glow plugs were converted to 12v. Some aircraft landing lights were added up front and those are 24v as well. 450 watts each, they're a bit too bright for street use.

While the V8 Detroit Diesel isn't fast, it's got the torque to keep going even with angry protesters jammed up in the wheel wells.

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Old 06-25-2020, 08:00 AM
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Serious quest for the gang:

How does your vehicle respond, once "airbags" have been triggered and deployed?

I would think that the on-board intelligence (computer) would create a shut down command to the vehicle.. ???

Many cars have the "turn off airbag" option for the passenger portion of the vehicle, is this available for the entire car?

If one is in the described situation , and the need to immediately vacate arises, your vehicle no longer is drivable ??
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:47 AM
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I always leave myself room in all directions around my vehicle. I know sometimes that's difficult but it is possible if one is alert to what's going on around you. I have mentioned this to my wife and my daughters several times and I think they understand. If it looks questionable, don't go in there. If it looks like there is no escape, don't go in there. Do not think you can explain or negotiate with them. If necessary do whatever you have to do to protect yourself.
Be safe out there--------
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:49 AM
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When I come to a stop I always leave at least a 1/2 car length from the car in front of me. That is just enough to get out of the jam. Have done this for years after a driver safety course.
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:49 AM
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As others mentioned earlier, justified use of potentially deadly force is still use of deadly force. so the threat level still has to be taken into account.

In the OP's specific scenario, I would be inclined to move backward - slowly. You can presume you are being recorded on video; if you are obviously giving the "peaceful protesters" the opportunity to get out your way it will be obvious; and a car moving 5 mph is just as difficult for a few people to stop than one going 30 mph. If there is a pile-on to the back of the car you can do a friendly tail-wag with the steering to discourage hangers-on.
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Old 06-25-2020, 09:49 AM
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I haven't been anywhere with a population over 11,000 since late February and no plans to do so in the future. I was relieved when a Nashville concert was rescheduled so won't be going there.

IF, I was caught in the described situation hopefully I would be driving my Tundra not the Mini. Although the maneuverability of the Mini could be an advantage, quick 3 point turn.
Reverse would be my choice, slow and steady. Would not display a firearm, but it is easily accessible
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Old 06-25-2020, 10:03 AM
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There's some video out there of the last pre-election protests/riots (and I hope everyone knows that's what this is all about) where some guy in a car is trying to get out of dodge, the rioters kept a wide berth because his left hand was hanging out the driver's side window clutching a pistol. Not the greatest idea, but it worked for him.
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Old 06-25-2020, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarebutt View Post
As suggested earlier, a round or two into the ground might buy enough time to get away.
Warning shots are always a bad idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
It is not all that uncommon here in the SSRNJ to see prosecutors build a case of premeditation against someone that had something at hand in the event of a threat against your person.
I would like to read one of those common cases. I would like to see how the prosecution turned preparation into premeditation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it hasn't happened. I just want to understand so preparation isn't misconstrued as premeditation. They are two completely different things.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Wiggums View Post
Serious quest for the gang:

How does your vehicle respond, once "airbags" have been triggered and deployed?

I would think that the on-board intelligence (computer) would create a shut down command to the vehicle.. ???
The car may have an auto shut down if the bags are deployed. However, if you hit something hard enough to set off the air bags, you probably can't drive the car anymore anyway. Air bags don't work in reality like they do in the movies.
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Old 06-25-2020, 10:37 AM
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Regarding airbags:

Air Bags | NHTSA

Scrolling down to the FAQs:

Quote:
What is meant by a "moderate to severe" crash?

Frontal air bags are generally designed to deploy in "moderate to severe" frontal or near-frontal crashes, which are defined as crashes that are equivalent to hitting a solid, fixed barrier at 8 to 14 mph or higher. (This would be equivalent to striking a parked car of similar size at about 16 to 28 mph or higher.)
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