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  #51  
Old 08-16-2020, 03:22 PM
Seven High Seven High is offline
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I suggest that you take a look at byrna.com.
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  #52  
Old 08-16-2020, 04:26 PM
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I suggest that you take a look at byrna.com.
Not for me. Looks like a good way to get shot. I like pepper spray, but I don't think I'd be a fan of a less lethal device that looks like a real pistol. You start shooting that at someone, if they're carrying, I'm pretty sure they'd start shooting real bullets back.
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  #53  
Old 08-16-2020, 04:34 PM
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Another new kid on the block is the JPX 2, 4, and 6.
$pendy but interesting. No compressed gas to launch, more like a primer. High velocity.
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  #54  
Old 08-16-2020, 04:36 PM
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Not for me. Looks like a good way to get shot. I like pepper spray, but I don't think I'd be a fan of a less lethal device that looks like a real pistol. You start shooting that at someone, if they're carrying, I'm pretty sure they'd start shooting real bullets back.
No question you'd have to consider that aspect with any LTL gun looking device, Taser included.
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  #55  
Old 08-16-2020, 06:26 PM
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Not for me. Looks like a good way to get shot. I like pepper spray, but I don't think I'd be a fan of a less lethal device that looks like a real pistol. You start shooting that at someone, if they're carrying, I'm pretty sure they'd start shooting real bullets back.
Yikes, agreed!!
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  #56  
Old 08-16-2020, 07:14 PM
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All the talk about aggressive dogs brought back a reminder from when my horse was alive. Woman who lived up the street was walking with her dog off leash (required for state management lands). Aggressive dog kept trying to get in my horse's blind spot and he kept circling to prevent it. I told her to leash her dog or control it but she did not.
My horse couldn't really defend himself with me mounted, so I got off, and warned her again. I think I even said the dog could get kicked. You should know that under the right provoation, any horse will bite, kick, or step on you. Nick wasn't a particularly big saddle horse at 1200 pounds. The dog got kicked and went home yelping. Stupid owner. I was carrying at the time. 3" M66 and I was considering deploying it to protect my horse but he solved it first with a pair of steel shoes.

My farrier's brother was nearly killed by a horse that kicked him in the head when he was trying to shoe the horse. My farrier, Jack, had a saying for uncooperative horses... "For the same cost, you could own a good horse."
My ex's horse kicked me once, right below the belt buckle (perhaps confused me with her previous ex) but knocked me flat. I've been bit by a friend's jealous Appy and accidentally stepped on by my own horse. Each event was unforgetable.

EDIT: Horsemen will tell you that they are trained 'not to buck'. It order to kick, the horse pretty much needs to buck. So by getting off, I gave him back the freedom to defend himself by kicking.
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  #57  
Old 08-17-2020, 04:31 PM
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Woman who lived up the street was walking with her dog off leash (required for state management lands).
I heard the same dog 'got loose' from their house. (As in they let the dog out in the morning unattended.) Dog got into a gut pile on state lands. Came home and barfed all over their fancy rugs.
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  #58  
Old 08-20-2020, 09:14 PM
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I carry a pocket spray. Sabre brand. It has a cop top similar to the larger size police carry on their belts. Stay away from Cheap brands with twisty tops. They loosen easily. And they can lose pressure more easily. also, look for OC percentage of 1.33. Many civilian models are .67 and even less. Sabre has every style you could want. If you can comfortably carry a larger cop top model, they are your best bet distance, accuracy and reliability wise.
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  #59  
Old 08-20-2020, 10:23 PM
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Finally settled on 2 different options.

First is a small 19 gram unit of Sabre RED Gel, carried in a Ripoffs CO-80T clip-on pouch, making it easy to carry anywhere.

The second option is a Fox Labs One point Four 'Stream' spray, 4%/5.3 million SHU, 2 oz./MKIII unit, carried in a Ripoffs CO-33 clip-on pouch. This unit is a little larger and will usually only be carried when travelling or heading into unknown areas or into the city.

Either unit will be carried on my belt in the same location that it was carried on my 'duty' belt as the muscle memory is still there, even 14 yrs later.
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  #60  
Old 08-21-2020, 02:05 AM
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Lots to be said for the cop top Sabre Red high percentage pepper spray. Will work on aggressive dogs sometimes. Also sometimes on two legged problems. A "Z" pattern spray across the eyes, then the nose followed by the likely now open mouth will put the hurt on most two legged problems. Even with decontamination, the effects of spray can last for hours. Direct sunlight can reactivate. Be careful taking a shower afterwards as the spray residue in the hair will wash down into the just below the belt line area, causing considerable pain.
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  #61  
Old 08-21-2020, 08:48 AM
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I am reconsidering adding pepper spray to my carry equipment when I leave the house.
Having retired from LE but still living in the same town where I was stationed, I have always considered the possibility of a confrontation with an old suspect/defendant as a possibility.
However with today's current climate, some other folks seem to have become emboldened to challenge everyone for some perceived wrong.
Now being retired, I recognize that I no longer have a need to interact with these people and I will go out of my way to avoid them but some of the confrontations we are seeing, these idiots just will not take no, go away, for an answer.
No, I do not frequent bars or spots normally associated with less than civilized behavior, but that doesn't seem to matter any more. You are just as likely to be accosted in the grocery parking lot or at the gas pumps.
I am rapidly approaching my 62nd birthday and never was much of a boxer/fighter, (in the academy, during boxing week, an instructor noted that I could take a punch . . . lots of them). I can now envision a greater need to have a non-lethal option at my disposal.
I am always armed when it is permissible, so that is covered but it feels like having a non-lethal option might be prudent until things calm down.
Yes, I do carry a cell phone and will call proper authorities but I do not want to be looking at a phone when the threat is already closing the distance.
Any thoughts, suggestions?
The older we get the more likely ANY attack is to cause us great bodily harm or death, thus justifying the use of lethal force. That, combined with a past experience where pepper spray FAILED to do the job makes me less likely than ever to take chances with my life.

Today I turned 64, and am firmly in the "vulnerable population" category. Having never been a LEO and use to carrying multiple means of dealing with a threat, I choose to keep things simple: my firearm. If a situation presents itself where my verbal judo is unsuccessful, I don't intend to be confused as to what comes next.
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  #62  
Old 08-21-2020, 09:16 AM
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Unfortunately, there are also many times where it is not effective against dogs, as well. So, don't feel overconfident in regard to its effectiveness. (Though I applaud your decision...I am the same when it comes to dogs, by and large. I love mine and try to treat others well.)
I use to work for one of the local utility companies. After a big storm I was sent out (alone) to do "triage". All triage personnel were equipped with a hot stick, pepper spray, cell phone and yellow tape. I was forced to use the pepper spray on an attacking rottweilder ...and it was TOTALLY ineffective. Thank God for that hot stick! As a result, I am not inclined to put any faith in pepper spray.
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  #63  
Old 08-21-2020, 09:39 AM
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The older we get the more likely ANY attack is to cause us great bodily harm or death, thus justifying the use of lethal force. That, combined with a past experience where pepper spray FAILED to do the job makes me less likely than ever to take chances with my life.

Today I turned 64, and am firmly in the "vulnerable population" category. Having never been a LEO and use to carrying multiple means of dealing with a threat, I choose to keep things simple: my firearm. If a situation presents itself where my verbal judo is unsuccessful, I don't intend to be confused as to what comes next.
What type and specific model of OC? There’s a huge range of different products(even from the same manufacturer) that vary greatly in effectiveness. Twist-top gel models bought in the supermarket checkout seem to be the most common type the average person buys and carries, but it’s usually the last type any reputable instructors recommend.

Regardless of vulnerable population status, there is still a long list of potential scenarios where pepper spray would be the better choice. Sit down and talk with an experienced cop for half an hour an hour and they will tell you things they’ll encountered you never imagined.
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  #64  
Old 08-21-2020, 10:02 AM
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What type and specific model of OC? There’s a huge range of different products(even from the same manufacturer) that vary greatly in effectiveness. Twist-top gel models bought in the supermarket checkout seem to be the most common type the average person buys and carries, but it’s usually the last type any reputable instructors recommend.

Regardless of vulnerable population status, there is still a long list of potential scenarios where pepper spray would be the better choice. Sit down and talk with an experienced cop for half an hour an hour and they will tell you things they’ll encountered you never imagined.
It was 20 years ago so I don't know what type it was, but I don't imagine this major utility would send their people out with supermarket checkout items, they generally provided the best equipment available.

I know that there are lots of situations LEO's encountered where pepper spray is an option. But not being a LEO I won't encounter most of them. My best friend is a Sheriff's Deputy and we talk about this stuff all the time. He carries pepper spray - even gave me one but I won't carry it.
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  #65  
Old 08-21-2020, 11:26 AM
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I know that there are lots of situations LEO's encountered where pepper spray is an option. But not being a LEO I won't encounter most of them. My best friend is a Sheriff's Deputy and we talk about this stuff all the time. He carries pepper spray - even gave me one but I won't carry it.
The odds of needing a gun as a civilian are exceedingly low, but most of the members here carry one on a daily basis despite the hassles.

By contrast, carrying OC is very easy and gives you options, but to each his own.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:27 AM
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After chatting with a Missoula County [deputy] sheriff, I bought three PepperBlaster II devices — one for me, one for my friend, and one to tryout to determine whether I wasted a lot of money.

They work. They are loud. They have significant precision delivering two distinct pepper payloads. The city of Missoula has no restriction or "issue" with the device when it is carried concealed.

They have a profile that "the other guy" might perceive as being a gun. And this benefit could reduce the confrontation, allowing me and "the other guy" to walk away.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:20 AM
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I’m in my middle 70s, handicapped, and recently added pepper spray for all the reasons previously stated. Also, I have a canister of pepper spray close to the front door of my house.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:40 AM
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I figure if you have the time, use pepper first. If that doesn’t work and you are in fear of life or bad injuries, shoot. At least you can show you tried not to shoot. It worked for me keeping a dog away long enough for me to leave.
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:31 AM
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A container of POM OC spray in every vehicle and in the vehicles of the ones I love. I have told them to carry it with them when they leave the vehicle and return it to the cup holder when they return.
Simple way to force them to be more aware of their surroundings when they are holding on to something before exiting their vehicle.
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Old 10-06-2020, 06:02 PM
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I know this is a somewhat older thread but here's my question. Regardless of SYG laws etc as almost no matter what you will be looked at for some sort of prosecution even though you may be justified after it's all said and done.

But....let's say you are confronted by an attacker and you use your gun to defend yourself. You are also carrying pepper spray. Isn't the prosecutor going to argue that you should have used the pepper spray first, as a deterrent, before using deadly force? I know they can use anything against you, but what will a jury think when you had a less deadly ability to deter the attacker?

And won't the civil suit also use the same argument?

Seems the pepper spray is a double edged sword.
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Old 10-06-2020, 06:53 PM
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Pepper spray is just another tool. Having pepper spray on your person does not mean you must go to that first if you are being threatened with serious physical harm or a lethal threat. Depending on the level of the threat being used against you, pepper spray will give you a tool to use if you are being threatened with less than lethal force or of serious physical harm. I also believe it is certainly preferable to drawing a firearm (because that is all you have) to try and dissuade a perceived threat. It sure beats being on the receiving end of a physical assault that has not escalated to something more serious and it MAY open up an avenue of escape or time to react in some other way.

Perhaps a review of the Dept of Justice's "Use of force Continuum" would be informative. While it normally is applied to law enforcement use of force, it is advisable for every armed citizen to be aware of it also.

The Use-of-Force Continuum | National Institute of Justice
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  #72  
Old 10-08-2020, 10:28 AM
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Thanks, that's a good summary
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  #73  
Old 10-12-2020, 09:04 PM
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I keep a POM pepper spray in my car console but don't carry on my person. I have enough stuff to carry without adding anything else.
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