Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

Concealed Carry & Self Defense All aspects of Concealed and Open Carry, Home and Self Defense.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-04-2020, 08:15 PM
mckenney99 mckenney99 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: OH
Posts: 728
Likes: 1,245
Liked 2,019 Times in 553 Posts
Default Reconsidering pepper spray

I am reconsidering adding pepper spray to my carry equipment when I leave the house.
Having retired from LE but still living in the same town where I was stationed, I have always considered the possibility of a confrontation with an old suspect/defendant as a possibility.
However with today's current climate, some other folks seem to have become emboldened to challenge everyone for some perceived wrong.
Now being retired, I recognize that I no longer have a need to interact with these people and I will go out of my way to avoid them but some of the confrontations we are seeing, these idiots just will not take no, go away, for an answer.
No, I do not frequent bars or spots normally associated with less than civilized behavior, but that doesn't seem to matter any more. You are just as likely to be accosted in the grocery parking lot or at the gas pumps.
I am rapidly approaching my 62nd birthday and never was much of a boxer/fighter, (in the academy, during boxing week, an instructor noted that I could take a punch . . . lots of them). I can now envision a greater need to have a non-lethal option at my disposal.
I am always armed when it is permissible, so that is covered but it feels like having a non-lethal option might be prudent until things calm down.
Yes, I do carry a cell phone and will call proper authorities but I do not want to be looking at a phone when the threat is already closing the distance.
Any thoughts, suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-04-2020, 08:21 PM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,417
Likes: 10,330
Liked 10,239 Times in 3,460 Posts
Default

I think it's a good option to have. I've often thought about carrying pepper spray, but I have respiratory issues and I'm concerned that if I end up getting exposed it could end up worse for me than my attacker.

From what I've read, Fox Labs is often recommended as a good pepper spray.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-04-2020, 08:39 PM
Moo Moo's Avatar
Moo Moo Moo Moo is online now
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 571
Likes: 3,118
Liked 1,741 Times in 376 Posts
Default

First Defense Mk6 are great for Plain Clothes work when I was still in the job. (Classified as a Prohibited Weapon for this State in live in).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 07-04-2020, 08:45 PM
Scharfschuetzer's Avatar
Scharfschuetzer Scharfschuetzer is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Puget Sound Area
Posts: 306
Likes: 9
Liked 776 Times in 228 Posts
Default

Pepper spray is not a bad interim weapon if you have the time and distance to use it. As a former LEO, you know that the concept of "Necessary Force" carries a lot of weight when the DA decides on charges or not.

While pepper spray may not be viable in a threat to life and limb, it is a nice option if the situation allows it.

Oh, and by the way for those who have not suffered it's effects, keep the wind to your back if you can before spraying.
__________________
Keep your powder dry.

Last edited by Scharfschuetzer; 07-04-2020 at 08:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 07-04-2020, 10:08 PM
murphydog's Avatar
murphydog murphydog is offline
Moderator
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,681
Likes: 82
Liked 11,775 Times in 6,383 Posts
Default

A small container of pepper gel is about the size of and lighter than a pistol magazine. A really good idea to have as a defensive option.
__________________
Alan
SWCA 2023, SWHF 220
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 07-04-2020, 10:20 PM
VictorLouis VictorLouis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 870
Likes: 26
Liked 512 Times in 294 Posts
Default

I much prefer the Taser C2. The perp gets a 30second ride, giving you ...hopefully...enough time to get away and call in your attack from a safer spot.

Whatever you do , don't go for one of those pistol-style OC launcher guns....

Beaumont woman blinded by police pepper spray plans to file claim | 89.3 KPCC
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 07-04-2020, 10:22 PM
caduceus caduceus is offline
US Veteran
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Northeast Texas
Posts: 105
Likes: 15
Liked 132 Times in 61 Posts
Default

I carry and ride with Ruger pepper spray/gel mix . Living in Texas they have changed knife and brass knuckles regulations. I'm considering adding the brass knuckles. I'm older than you
And have no desire to be in a street fight. Much rather evade and escape but if I couldn't have means to defend. Firearm last resort unless you are chasing me with a knife!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 07-04-2020, 11:05 PM
Screwball Screwball is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 273
Likes: 60
Liked 279 Times in 95 Posts
Default

When I went through the academy, our class was the second to get a higher rating OC exposure. We carry 10%, old exposure was under 1%... we got like 5%.

That being said, I will not count on OC after that. I managed fine, until we had to decontaminate... which adding water sucked. I lost all respect for it as a less lethal option. It may work well for some, but I donít want to consider it working, and have someone like myself... who isnít as affected by it. Add in I work in a windy environment, and would likely get other officers exposed, I donít carry it. At least the taser has red dots to intimidate the person into giving up.

I actually just pulled the OC and pouch out of the safe, since another officer wants it. Need to bring it in this week.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-04-2020, 11:59 PM
Rudi Rudi is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 4,076
Liked 5,797 Times in 1,793 Posts
Default

I have been looking at pepper gel, less chance to get it on you.
__________________
No baby we aint
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:02 AM
lrrifleman's Avatar
lrrifleman lrrifleman is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 4,001
Likes: 12,401
Liked 3,261 Times in 1,487 Posts
Default

If I may give a non-LEO opinion. I live in a state where self-defense is not a protected right, and the tools of that denied right can get you a felony conviction with prison time.

Fortunately, I possess a non-resident CWP for when I travel in FREE America. Being disabled, I can't carry a full compliment of non-lethal defensive options. Yes, a taser can be effective, but what if you are acosted by multiple threats? I also fear that some kind of spray would require the threats to get too close for comfort.

I don't think that I project myself as a threat, but perhaps more an aire of confidence. Being disabled with a noticeable limp and cane, I (unintentionally) project myself more as an easy target/victim.

I don't go out looking for trouble, but I also don't want any of my defensive tools to fall out of my possession or control. As a result, anyone that presents themselves from the start as a threat needs to be viewed as a dangerous threat from the start. It really does "oscillate air inwardly between the lips" when you are disabled and have to defend yourself and your family.
__________________
Judge control not gun control!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:13 AM
Goldstar225 Goldstar225 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cabot, AR
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 1,098
Liked 1,654 Times in 537 Posts
Default

Like you I'm a retired LEO still living in the general area that I worked in. I have bumped into a few of my prior "customers" but no problems ensued. While I'm always armed, I keep a can of Fox 5.3 in my vehicles. I see it as an option for that big gray area that falls between polite conversation and shooting.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:24 AM
Forte Smitten Wesson's Avatar
Forte Smitten Wesson Forte Smitten Wesson is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 2,356
Liked 3,407 Times in 1,231 Posts
Default

As long as you're using it as an addition to your existing EDC which already includes a firearm, it sounds like a good idea.

Another alternative to consider is a Stun Gun which is potentially more incapacitating than Pepper Spray and perhaps might be viewed as a less violent alternative as as well -- A quick electric shock that knocks someone on their butt, but causes no lasting effects unlike Pepper Spray which leaves burning liquid in someone's eyes which must be promptly rinsed out and causes pain/irritation for hours afterwards.
__________________
RIP .40 S&W (1990 - Present)

Last edited by Forte Smitten Wesson; 07-05-2020 at 12:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-05-2020, 07:50 AM
ladder13 ladder13 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 23,708
Likes: 33,834
Liked 32,637 Times in 11,104 Posts
Default

I carry some every day on my walks on the greenway trails in my hood.
__________________
In memory of Labworm
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 07-05-2020, 08:31 AM
Neversink n Klapperthal's Avatar
Neversink n Klapperthal Neversink n Klapperthal is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 351
Likes: 733
Liked 534 Times in 203 Posts
Default

I nearly always carry pepper spray. Wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of it
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:08 AM
blues7's Avatar
blues7 blues7 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mtns
Posts: 1,756
Likes: 1,116
Liked 3,837 Times in 1,176 Posts
Default

I carry a small POM pepper spray canister clipped to a pocket, or a sap...sometimes both. It's good to have less lethal options if the situation allows.
__________________
642-1, M&P15 TS
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:30 AM
KSDeputy's Avatar
KSDeputy KSDeputy is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 423
Liked 1,467 Times in 639 Posts
Default

I carry a Pepper Blaster. It costs me $ 10 a year to carry, but could be the difference between prison and freedom in a confrontation. I think it prudent to carry a non-lethal alternative to lethal force. I urge all retired officers to have both.

Last edited by KSDeputy; 07-05-2020 at 09:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:54 AM
Donn's Avatar
Donn Donn is offline
US Veteran
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,937
Likes: 6
Liked 4,196 Times in 1,605 Posts
Default

I've always been an advocate/fan of a less than lethal option. Being old school, (and old), I'd be happy carrying my old blackjack. It was useful helping undesirables see reason back in the day. Sadly, it's not legal. Till it is, if it ever is, it stays in the safe.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 07-05-2020, 10:54 AM
Mike 139 Mike 139 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: SE U.S.
Posts: 73
Likes: 115
Liked 217 Times in 62 Posts
Default

OP... Thereís no substitute for situational awareness and having having a plan....When the Youngest went to College, I researched self defense sprays and got her a Kimber Pepper Blaster...Two shots effective to 13 feet..... I would get two...One to fire at a target and see how it functions, and if itís going to work for you and the second to actually carry.

Iím over 65, so any assault/ battery on Me is a Felony. I do have my Kel- lite between the Seat and Drivers door.

When I first started in 1971, If You saw someone wearing a heavy coat in 95 degree weather having a conversation with a Telephone Pole, You put them in the Unit and transported them to a Hospital and that was it.... now they self medicate and apparently theyíre all out there running loose, green/orange, blue hair and wearing costumes. Stay Safe.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 07-05-2020, 11:22 AM
haywood's Avatar
haywood haywood is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. Ohio
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 6,675
Liked 1,846 Times in 709 Posts
Default

I always carry Pepper Spray. I was walking and a big dog came at me and started circling and growling. I tried yelling go home, with no effect. I like dogs and didnít want to shoot someoneís pet. I tried to walk away slowly but he kept circling and growling. I had never used Pepper Spray before. It was a hot breezy day and I pointed it at the dog about 15 feet at the most away. It came out in a strong straight stream. It went right over his head. I thought darn I missed. Before I had a chance to shoot again he started sneezing. His eyes started to get big and wide then he started blinking and sneezing. No more nasty dog. He just sat down and I got out of there. If it works that well with a miss it should work good with a direct hit.
__________________
Two Revolvers every day

Last edited by haywood; 07-05-2020 at 11:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:06 PM
CH4's Avatar
CH4 CH4 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Washington/Philippines
Posts: 5,014
Likes: 10,712
Liked 9,633 Times in 3,114 Posts
Default

For the same reasons LE carry non-lethal options, itís a good idea for those who carry heat to do the same - because nothing ever goes according to how you imagined it will. There are just too many variables.

As an instructor of both chemical weapons and Taser, I carry OC, especially in areas where folks are more heavily dressed or there may be more than one perp. Both Taser and spray have their strengths and weaknesses, but pepper spray allows multiple shots during the same assault, it can be had in a smaller package and is a little more flexible when it comes to shot placement.
Attached Thumbnails
Reconsidering pepper spray-9a673b85-647f-4758-9224-37259ddb0bd6-jpg  
__________________
FBINA 213

Last edited by CH4; 08-16-2020 at 04:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:39 PM
blues7's Avatar
blues7 blues7 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mtns
Posts: 1,756
Likes: 1,116
Liked 3,837 Times in 1,176 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by haywood View Post
I always carry Pepper Spray. I was walking and a big dog came at me and started circling and growling. I tried yelling go home, with no effect. I like dogs and didnít want to shoot someoneís pet. I tried to walk away slowly but he kept circling and growling. I had never used Pepper Spray before. It was a hot breezy day and I pointed it at the dog about 15 feet at the most away. It came out in a strong straight stream. It went right over his head. I thought darn I missed. Before I had a chance to shoot again he started sneezing. His eyes started to get big and wide then he started blinking and sneezing. No more nasty dog. He just sat down and I got out of there. If it works that well with a miss it should work good with a direct hit.
Unfortunately, there are also many times where it is not effective against dogs, as well. So, don't feel overconfident in regard to its effectiveness. (Though I applaud your decision...I am the same when it comes to dogs, by and large. I love mine and try to treat others well.)

Funny anecdote...

A friend on another forum said that when he got in a tangle with an aggressive dog, the thing that worked was when he sprayed the dog's butt.

Apparently it lit a fire under its *** and that was enough to end the scrum.
__________________
642-1, M&P15 TS
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:55 PM
ben_g1's Avatar
ben_g1 ben_g1 is offline
US Veteran
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 1,464
Liked 2,508 Times in 665 Posts
Default

I like ****** pepper blaster II. A two shot blaster, the gel travels 110 mph (13 feet), unaffected by temperature, wind, or the rain. Will not blowback in your face on a windy day. Have not used it except for practicing with an expired blaster (5-year expiration date). YouTube has some videos of idiots volunteering to be tested with it (too funny).
__________________
Vietnam 1969-1971
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #23  
Old 07-05-2020, 02:40 PM
Execpro Execpro is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 427
Likes: 2,362
Liked 373 Times in 201 Posts
Default

Good Post mckenney99!
Thanks VictorLouis for your post! Anyone using that device is asking for a Law suite. Why would a Police Department even consider it? JMO (comments welcome).
The Kimber Pepper Blaster is another item asking for a Law suite. Spray at 112 Mph and only 2 shots! Up close you could possibly blind someone and if you miss (you already committed assault), you are now the aggressor and you really póód someone off. JMO (comments welcome).
I carry Pepper Wildfire 18%. 6-8 one second shots. Effective range 8-10ft (works great on attacking dogs, ask how I know) and a 4Ē knife when working outside around the house (Maybe a snub nose Taurus 856 UL 38, you never know)!
When off property, a S&W.

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!
Attached Thumbnails
Reconsidering pepper spray-ca76d779-c142-41b3-b843-d9bdd6679f99-jpg   Reconsidering pepper spray-05483800-90db-4f1d-a57a-45b852778304-jpg   Reconsidering pepper spray-89bf8f4a-bbe8-4d32-bcdb-d56bfd4de926-jpg  

Last edited by Execpro; 07-06-2020 at 11:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 07-05-2020, 07:30 PM
haywood's Avatar
haywood haywood is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. Ohio
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 6,675
Liked 1,846 Times in 709 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blues7 View Post
Unfortunately, there are also many times where it is not effective against dogs, as well. So, don't feel overconfident in regard to its effectiveness. (Though I applaud your decision...I am the same when it comes to dogs, by and large. I love mine and try to treat others well.)

Funny anecdote...

A friend on another forum said that when he got in a tangle with an aggressive dog, the thing that worked was when he sprayed the dog's butt.

Apparently it lit a fire under its *** and that was enough to end the scrum.
The pepper spray comes first. It worked. If it doesnít. One of Two carry guns will be tried next.
__________________
Two Revolvers every day
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 07-06-2020, 07:51 AM
fatcat3's Avatar
fatcat3 fatcat3 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 121
Likes: 428
Liked 174 Times in 78 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudi View Post
I have been looking at pepper gel, less chance to get it on you.
until they go to cover their face and catch the gel/foam in their hands and throw it back at you. Ya I know it sounds like Hollywood bs yet saw it happen, the end result was every one got maced as normal. I have watched mace fail to slow em down let alone stop em too often to put much stock in it. On the other hand it's better than a harsh look.

Last edited by fatcat3; 07-06-2020 at 07:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 07-06-2020, 08:14 AM
shocker's Avatar
shocker shocker is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,201
Likes: 391
Liked 1,021 Times in 503 Posts
Default

I can't remember which he was, a Fed or a State Police Leo, who told me, ahem, as a general rule the darker the complexion the less effective pepper spray was. Which is why it's nice to have spray and shock as options. This was several years ago, when this was a less lethal conversation to have, career wise.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-06-2020, 10:17 AM
Borderboss Borderboss is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 675
Likes: 403
Liked 1,068 Times in 382 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mckenney99 View Post
I am reconsidering adding pepper spray to my carry equipment when I leave the house.
Having retired from LE but still living in the same town where I was stationed, I have always considered the possibility of a confrontation with an old suspect/defendant as a possibility.
However with today's current climate, some other folks seem to have become emboldened to challenge everyone for some perceived wrong.
Now being retired, I recognize that I no longer have a need to interact with these people and I will go out of my way to avoid them but some of the confrontations we are seeing, these idiots just will not take no, go away, for an answer.
No, I do not frequent bars or spots normally associated with less than civilized behavior, but that doesn't seem to matter any more. You are just as likely to be accosted in the grocery parking lot or at the gas pumps.
I am rapidly approaching my 62nd birthday and never was much of a boxer/fighter, (in the academy, during boxing week, an instructor noted that I could take a punch . . . lots of them). I can now envision a greater need to have a non-lethal option at my disposal.
I am always armed when it is permissible, so that is covered but it feels like having a non-lethal option might be prudent until things calm down.
Yes, I do carry a cell phone and will call proper authorities but I do not want to be looking at a phone when the threat is already closing the distance.
Any thoughts, suggestions?
I completely agree with this. The scumbag anarchists of today will more likely need an attitude adjustment with OC spray than to get shot, so I've also started carrying OC spray every day. If that doesn't work, or a hostile crowd forms, you can always go to the firearm at that point.

As to aggressive big dogs, IMHO they get shot. There's no reason to screw around with that, and you're not going to end up in prison for shooting it (in the vast majority of places where you're carrying legally).
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #28  
Old 07-06-2020, 05:02 PM
sotexas sotexas is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: South Texas
Posts: 238
Likes: 106
Liked 203 Times in 119 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mckenney99 View Post
I am reconsidering adding pepper spray to my carry equipment when I leave the house.
Having retired from LE but still living in the same town where I was stationed, I have always considered the possibility of a confrontation with an old suspect/defendant as a possibility.
However with today's current climate, some other folks seem to have become emboldened to challenge everyone for some perceived wrong.
Now being retired, I recognize that I no longer have a need to interact with these people and I will go out of my way to avoid them but some of the confrontations we are seeing, these idiots just will not take no, go away, for an answer.
No, I do not frequent bars or spots normally associated with less than civilized behavior, but that doesn't seem to matter any more. You are just as likely to be accosted in the grocery parking lot or at the gas pumps.
I am rapidly approaching my 62nd birthday and never was much of a boxer/fighter, (in the academy, during boxing week, an instructor noted that I could take a punch . . . lots of them). I can now envision a greater need to have a non-lethal option at my disposal.
I am always armed when it is permissible, so that is covered but it feels like having a non-lethal option might be prudent until things calm down.
Yes, I do carry a cell phone and will call proper authorities but I do not want to be looking at a phone when the threat is already closing the distance.
Any thoughts, suggestions?
Read this then thought about it then ordered for me and the wife. Thanks for a different yet effective approach
__________________
Is that a gun No a lifesaver
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #29  
Old 07-06-2020, 05:31 PM
Borderboss Borderboss is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 675
Likes: 403
Liked 1,068 Times in 382 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepnez View Post
Read this then thought about it then ordered for me and the wife. Thanks for a different yet effective approach
When I did this, I ordered an extra one that we could practice with. Not on each other! I wanted her to have a feel for the mechanism and to see how the spray actually came out.
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-06-2020, 11:17 PM
HardToHandle's Avatar
HardToHandle HardToHandle is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 290
Likes: 1,566
Liked 377 Times in 178 Posts
Default

Pepper spray is tool with mixed effectiveness. I know a lot of competent cops who ended up in the hospital using pepper spray (per training/policy). They had successful to-the-face deployments on bad guys, but the bad guys decided not to quit fighting. Today, most of my local agencies rarely ever use pepper spray or batons outside of riots and the TASER is the 90% solution. (TASERs seem to have a much higher likelihood of working, but still aren’t infallible)

I also can think of at least two dogs shot by officers when pepper spray didn’t deter Cujo. Dogs learn, either to avoid pepper spray or that they can fight through it too. If hitting a person is hard, trying getting a good deployment on an attacking dog.

The FBI has never issued pepper spray to my knowledge. Maybe one of the past/serving agents can correct me, but that is also a clue if the DOJ won’t issue it.

That all said, I have pepper spray at close hand in my vehicles. I also sometimes carry pepper on my body, but always as an adjunct to a striking device. Pepper spray is a tricky item to deploy and has a strong psychological impact, but that can be way overstated and likely to fail when needed most.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #31  
Old 07-07-2020, 06:00 AM
VictorLouis VictorLouis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 870
Likes: 26
Liked 512 Times in 294 Posts
Default

I'd forgotten about this one. Sean Hannity has endorsed it on his show, but I don't whether or not the company is a paying advertiser. In a jurisdiction where one can't get a handgun, I think something like this may be an option. ....

Byrna | Best Non-Lethal Self Defense Products
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #32  
Old 07-07-2020, 06:02 AM
VictorLouis VictorLouis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 870
Likes: 26
Liked 512 Times in 294 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Execpro View Post
...when working outside around the house (Maybe a snub nose Taurus 856 UL 38..)!
Nice choice. Can you advise what those black plastic arms on your kydex rigs are for?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-07-2020, 07:15 AM
Execpro Execpro is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 427
Likes: 2,362
Liked 373 Times in 201 Posts
Default

VictorLouis: The one on the left is a M&P Bodyguard 380 (with Precision One 90gr XTP bullets).
The one on the right is a M&P 9mm EZ ( with 124 gr HST bullets or Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P). Both carried AIWB in Vedder holsters.
One or the other is my away from home carry.

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!

Last edited by Execpro; 07-07-2020 at 11:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-22-2020, 11:36 PM
Execpro Execpro is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 427
Likes: 2,362
Liked 373 Times in 201 Posts
Default

I donít think pepper spray is necessarily a good idea.
If one or more people are coming toward you and refuse your commands to stop or back off and there is no option for you to get away from or de-escalate the situation, you should probably be in fear for your life.
An aggressor can cover 21í in one second. The last thing (if I am in fear for my life with NO options for escape) I want to do is pull out a can of pepper spray/mace and hope it stops the attack. You have NO time for a second
option. You have only one chance to save your life. Ergo, the gun should
be out and ready to shoot if thatís the only option. Period!! JMO

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!

Last edited by Execpro; 07-22-2020 at 11:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-22-2020, 11:57 PM
sigp220.45's Avatar
sigp220.45 sigp220.45 is offline
US Veteran
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 18,604
Liked 19,952 Times in 3,220 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardToHandle View Post

The FBI has never issued pepper spray to my knowledge. Maybe one of the past/serving agents can correct me, but that is also a clue if the DOJ wonít issue it.
I was an FBI SA and we were issued pepper spray as far back as 1991, but werenít required to carry it. I think they issued it so the Academy guys could experience the pure joy of spraying us with it. They sprayed me again when I went back for Firearms Instructor school.

The only time I used it on a person was to get a big naked guy out of a closet. It worked great for that.

I used it on rez dogs with mixed success. I gave it up when a canister exploded in my hot car. We were explicitly told not to leave it in the car, but I figured - what could happen?

After that I went to an ASP baton for rez dogs. Just snapping it open worked most of the time. Shooting dogs generates bad will and tons of paperwork. Iíve had to do it and it sucks. I like dogs.
__________________
Ramblers - lets get rambliní.

Last edited by sigp220.45; 07-22-2020 at 11:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #36  
Old 07-23-2020, 02:25 AM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,417
Likes: 10,330
Liked 10,239 Times in 3,460 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Execpro View Post
I donít think pepper spray is necessarily a good idea.
If one or more people are coming toward you and refuse your commands to stop or back off and there is no option for you to get away from or de-escalate the situation, you should probably be in fear for your life.
An aggressor can cover 21í in one second. The last thing (if I am in fear for my life with NO options for escape) I want to do is pull out a can of pepper spray/mace and hope it stops the attack. You have NO time for a second
option. You have only one chance to save your life. Ergo, the gun should
be out and ready to shoot if thatís the only option. Period!! JMO

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!
In that case, it's not the pepper spray, but not knowing what level of force to use. Being in that situation and having pepper spray doesn't mean you have to use it. You can go straight to the gun if that's justified.

Which brings up another issue. If you're going to carry pepper spray and a gun, you better practice with both and know which tool to use under which circumstances.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #37  
Old 07-23-2020, 02:35 AM
Borderboss Borderboss is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 675
Likes: 403
Liked 1,068 Times in 382 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Execpro View Post
I donít think pepper spray is necessarily a good idea.
If one or more people are coming toward you and refuse your commands to stop or back off and there is no option for you to get away from or de-escalate the situation, you should probably be in fear for your life.
An aggressor can cover 21í in one second. The last thing (if I am in fear for my life with NO options for escape) I want to do is pull out a can of pepper spray/mace and hope it stops the attack. You have NO time for a second
option. You have only one chance to save your life. Ergo, the gun should
be out and ready to shoot if thatís the only option. Period!! JMO

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!
As ContinentalOp said, it really does depend on the situation.

If you are a 200 pound fit male being accosted by a similar aggressive male who isn't displaying a weapon and you shoot him, you better be prepared to spend a good chunk of your life behind bars. That just is what it is.

On the other hand, if it's multiple aggressors, or there's a big difference in the parties of a one-on-one (a fit 20-something attacking an overweight 60-something), then that changes the argument that going to lethal force immediately could be justified.
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #38  
Old 08-15-2020, 10:07 PM
elm_creek_smith's Avatar
elm_creek_smith elm_creek_smith is offline
US Veteran
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Indian Territory
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 1,591
Liked 2,759 Times in 1,045 Posts
Default

I'm a relatively fit 68 year old man who recently had his back introduce him to sciatica, leaving me somewhat less than mobile. I use a cane to get around, but all my military and security combat hand-to-hand training is out the freaking window. On the plus side, I have had combat cane training so if I don't fall down I may be able to keep most dogs off me. Situational awareness and a couple of guns are pretty much what I have to keep me safe. If I were going to use OC, I'd use the portable fire extinguisher-sized bear spray with the stream nozzle.

As for the Kimber gizmo, my brother gave one to my late mother and showed her how to use it since she was terrified of guns. After mom passed, my sisters were going through her stuff, and one of them found it. She asked, "What's this?" pointed it at her face, and pulled the trigger. My brother was alerted to her misadventure by her screams and my other sisters shouts. It took most of a gallon of milk to ease the pain, but she did have a nice red mark in the middle of her forehead. My brother had a tough time telling me this because he kept cracking up. "Why did you do that?" he said he asked her. Her response was, "I didn't know what it was!" "So,...you pointed it at your face and pulled the trigger?" She may still be pissed off about that.
__________________
CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

Last edited by elm_creek_smith; 08-16-2020 at 12:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
  #39  
Old 08-15-2020, 11:49 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,890
Likes: 389
Liked 2,145 Times in 1,002 Posts
Default

I never leave home without it.

Usually a Sabre Red H20 Unit such as the MK6, on occasion larger models. MCís(Major Capsaicinoids) is the key to potency and effectiveness and you want a level III spray preferable with 1.33% MCís.

First Defense Def-Tec came out with 1.33% units fairly recently, but they are oil based, which in my opinion are less desirable. The reason being is they donít really work any better, but are more difficult to decon. That matters because there is a good chance youíll get it on you in an actual fight and present less of a problem in case of accidental discharge.

Stream is also preferred IMO for outdoor use due to greater range and less potential for wind blowback and a flip-top is best for safe carry and quick and positive activation.

POM industries have come out with some very compact flip-top 1.33% MCís water-based units which have received the endorsement of some very well respected instructors like Chuck Haggard, John Murphy and Greg Ellifritz. I recently purchased a couple for carry when I need something really small. I havenít really had them long enough to determine long term durability, but the form factor is fantastic.

Last edited by Mister X; 08-15-2020 at 11:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #40  
Old 08-16-2020, 12:37 AM
CH4's Avatar
CH4 CH4 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Washington/Philippines
Posts: 5,014
Likes: 10,712
Liked 9,633 Times in 3,114 Posts
Default

Smart choice for all the same reasons we carried it on duty - an intermediate level of force.
__________________
FBINA 213
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #41  
Old 08-16-2020, 09:13 AM
CB3's Avatar
CB3 CB3 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,507
Likes: 1,232
Liked 1,841 Times in 729 Posts
Default



I carry pepper spray regularly in my back pocket in a custom leather holster. I like having the option available. I use the gel stream to reduce the wind problem.

I change the canister annually, shooting off the old one for practice. I have been test sprayed once. It was very unpleasant but not completely disabling. I recognize that spraying someone or a few folks may not produce incapacitation but will likely slow or reorient the problem. For civilian use, this is a chance to get away, to cover, or get to my gun if the problem escalates. I like the stuff with dye that doesnít wash off easily.

As with any defensive tool, itís important to have it accessible quickly, always in the same place and orientation. One must know the spray pattern and distance.

Last edited by CB3; 08-16-2020 at 09:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #42  
Old 08-16-2020, 09:35 AM
Telecaster Telecaster is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,331
Likes: 367
Liked 2,133 Times in 772 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_g1 View Post
I like ****** pepper blaster II. A two shot blaster, the gel travels 110 mph (13 feet), unaffected by temperature, wind, or the rain. Will not blowback in your face on a windy day. Have not used it except for practicing with an expired blaster (5-year expiration date). YouTube has some videos of idiots volunteering to be tested with it (too funny).
We canít write the word here for the gun maker in Yonkers, NY???
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-16-2020, 10:18 AM
LPD256's Avatar
LPD256 LPD256 is offline
SWCA Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 8,809
Liked 2,786 Times in 786 Posts
Default

As a rookie cop in training, my FTO shot a guy with pepper spray. He effectively blinded me, himself, and the arrestee. We were blind enough that he drove us all past the jail and we had to drive around the block to return to our destination. Honestly, I never saw it used where the cops involved avoided getting sprayed too, and generally it did more to tick off the perp than stop them. A bunch of old men like me running around with guns, pepper spray, stun guns, blackjacks, switchblades, or baseball bats sounds kind of like a recipe for disaster. I carry a gun everyday. Mostly, I try to stay away from trouble. Iím overtly aware of my surroundings. I have an escape plan. My job now doesnít require me to stand and fight. So adios, Iím gone at a hint of trouble.
__________________
SWCA 3255 SWHF 615
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #44  
Old 08-16-2020, 10:43 AM
Mister X Mister X is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,890
Likes: 389
Liked 2,145 Times in 1,002 Posts
Default

One big reason I carry it is encountering dogs on our walks. I really wouldnít want to hurt one due to the owners negligence.

In regards to defense against two legged predators, I think people sometimes expect too much from OC. I canít remember who said it, but ďeye jab in a canĒ was how you should look at pepper spray. Not an end all be all, but simply an additional tool in certain circumstances to gain time and opportunity and make a transition to your next action.

Last edited by Mister X; 08-16-2020 at 10:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #45  
Old 08-16-2020, 10:50 AM
LPD256's Avatar
LPD256 LPD256 is offline
SWCA Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 8,809
Liked 2,786 Times in 786 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
One big reason I carry it is encountering dogs on our walks. I really wouldnít want to hurt one due to the owners negligence.

In regards to defense against two legged predators, I think people sometimes expect too much from OC. I canít remember who said it, but ďeye jab in a canĒ was how you should look at pepper spray. Not an end all be all, but simply an additional tool in certain circumstances to gain time and opportunity and make a transition to your next action.
I agree. A walk with a dog is a great opportunity to carry a less than lethal option, particularly if you are in bear/coyote country. A dog shot with pepper spray wonít get you arrested for assault, and likely wonít get you sued either.
__________________
SWCA 3255 SWHF 615
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #46  
Old 08-16-2020, 11:00 AM
Robspeire Robspeire is offline
US Veteran
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: East TN
Posts: 312
Likes: 692
Liked 514 Times in 173 Posts
Default

I carry Sabre Pepper spray along with .45 Shield.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #47  
Old 08-16-2020, 11:03 AM
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,370
Likes: 9,953
Liked 14,251 Times in 6,352 Posts
Default

Bear threads never mention Bear Bangers??


Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-16-2020, 11:42 AM
elm_creek_smith's Avatar
elm_creek_smith elm_creek_smith is offline
US Veteran
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Indian Territory
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 1,591
Liked 2,759 Times in 1,045 Posts
Default

Bear bangers? Oh! A 12 gauge slug! Gotcha!
__________________
CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-16-2020, 12:12 PM
Mule Packer's Avatar
Mule Packer Mule Packer is offline
Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 3,056
Likes: 9,275
Liked 17,218 Times in 2,490 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blues7 View Post
I carry a small POM pepper spray canister clipped to a pocket, or a sap...sometimes both. It's good to have less lethal options if the situation allows.
With the sporadic winds we get up here, I've always been a little hesitant to rely on pepper spray as a less-than-lethal alternative. My concealed carry permit allows me to carry a sap or blackjack, so I normally have one handy in the truck. A healthy, well-placed whack to the collar bone is usually enough to "tune someone up" without the consequences of lethal actions.
__________________
Pack light and cinch tight.

Last edited by Mule Packer; 08-16-2020 at 12:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #50  
Old 08-16-2020, 01:36 PM
LPD256's Avatar
LPD256 LPD256 is offline
SWCA Member
Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray Reconsidering pepper spray  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 8,809
Liked 2,786 Times in 786 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule Packer View Post
With the sporadic winds we get up here, I've always been a little hesitant to rely on pepper spray as a less-than-lethal alternative. My concealed carry permit allows me to carry a sap or blackjack, so I normally have one handy in the truck. A healthy, well-placed whack to the collar bone is usually enough to "tune someone up" without the consequences of lethal actions.
Nice collection. Those spring loaded ones are what my Dad carried. I carried a flat sap for awhile. And a wooden nightstick. Then the Kel-light came around and replaced those. I never hit anyone with it. But Iím told I hit a guy with a handheld radio hard enough that it imprinted Motorola on his forehead. Donít remember that but several years later a rookie partner said it made an impression on him for the rest of his career.
__________________
SWCA 3255 SWHF 615
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pepper spray BearBio The Lounge 4 10-27-2016 01:42 PM
Pepper spray Cal44 Concealed Carry & Self Defense 60 09-21-2014 12:45 PM
Pepper Spray - need to buy, know nothing Prof_Fate The Lounge 25 12-07-2012 10:34 PM
Pepper Spray Cyrano The Lounge 23 08-16-2010 10:33 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:55 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)