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  #51  
Old 07-24-2020, 01:17 PM
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From what I read in the story, the 25 yo "ringleader" has had over 230 felony charges placed against him since he was 12.

As I remember the story, the first friend was ambushed and being slaughtered when the other two friends pulled up and were put under fire when they were ambushed.
Why was this person not in prison? 230 felonies might be a clue to someone.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:22 PM
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From what I read in the story, the 25 yo "ringleader" has had over 230 felony charges placed against him since he was 12.
I don't know... sounds like either made up or they have never been prosecuted and he was never convicted. The max I have seen is 9 former felonies and at the trial of his 10th felony he was convicted to life in prison.
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:52 PM
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I don't know... sounds like either made up or they have never been prosecuted and he was never convicted. The max I have seen is 9 former felonies and at the trial of his 10th felony he was convicted to life in prison.
My layman's guess was that these might've been arrest charges, possibly multiple charges for the same crime, that were eventually dropped or pled down to misdemeanors, rather than 230 prosecutions.

But like I said, just a guess.
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:11 PM
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My layman's guess was that these might've been arrest charges, possibly multiple charges for the same crime, that were eventually dropped or pled down to misdemeanors, rather than 230 prosecutions.

But like I said, just a guess.
Hard to fathom that number.... even misdemeanors. Some charges are enhanceable. But I don't know...
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:59 PM
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Here is Sheriff Judd explaining another officer shooting.

"Polk County Florida Sheriff - "You kill a policeman it means no arrest...no Miranda rights...no negotiations...nothing but as many bullets as we can shoot into you...PERIOD."
An illegal alien, in Polk County, Florida , who got pulled over in a routine traffic stop, ended up "executing" the deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot eight times, including once behind his right ear at close range. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed. A state-wide manhunt ensued.

The murderer was found hiding in a wooded area. As soon as he took a shot at the SWAT team, officers opened fire on him. They hit the guy 68 times.

Naturally, the liberal media went nuts and asked why they had to shoot the poor, undocumented immigrant 68 times.

Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel: "Because that's all the ammunition we had." Now, is that just about the all-time greatest answer or what!

The Coroner also reported that the illegal alien died of natural causes. When asked by a reporter how that could be, since there were 68 bullet wounds in his body, he simply replied: (BEST QUOTE ever) ...."When you are shot 68 times you are naturally gonna die."
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. When an armed and dangerous murderer opens fire on the Police, he has chosen the rules of engagement. He decided not to surrender when he could have. Game over.
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Old 07-24-2020, 03:12 PM
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Here is Sheriff Judd explaining another officer shooting.

"Polk County Florida Sheriff - "You kill a policeman it means no arrest...no Miranda rights...no negotiations...nothing but as many bullets as we can shoot into you...PERIOD."
An illegal alien, in Polk County, Florida , who got pulled over in a routine traffic stop, ended up "executing" the deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot eight times, including once behind his right ear at close range. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed. A state-wide manhunt ensued.

The murderer was found hiding in a wooded area. As soon as he took a shot at the SWAT team, officers opened fire on him. They hit the guy 68 times.

Naturally, the liberal media went nuts and asked why they had to shoot the poor, undocumented immigrant 68 times.

Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel: "Because that's all the ammunition we had." Now, is that just about the all-time greatest answer or what!

The Coroner also reported that the illegal alien died of natural causes. When asked by a reporter how that could be, since there were 68 bullet wounds in his body, he simply replied: (BEST QUOTE ever) ...."When you are shot 68 times you are naturally gonna die."
Gotta love that Sheriff.
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Old 07-24-2020, 03:44 PM
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My layman's guess was that these might've been arrest charges, possibly multiple charges for the same crime, that were eventually dropped or pled down to misdemeanors, rather than 230 prosecutions.

But like I said, just a guess.
No matter what, the guy should have been in jail.
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:01 PM
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No matter what, the guy should have been in jail.
No argument there.
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:12 PM
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three decades ago, while on a back country fishing trip with my then 10 year old son, we had a dangerous encounter with two armed Charles Manson types that we escaped from by my driving over rough dirt roads at insane speeds, watching their following dust cloud slowly recede until we eventually reached pavement.
Carried illegally on such trips from that point forward until we moved to Oregon and I could legally carry.

The older I get, the more my hand never leaves the grip of my pocket carried LCP when I see anyone the least suspcious looking within 10 yards of me.
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:22 PM
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"230 Felonies"

Well, there are felonies and then there are felonies. Drug possession / sales, property crimes, etc., may not be as vigorously pursued as they should be. IIRC, he only had a couple of felonies that involved violence. Those are probably the ones he went to prison for.

But it makes you wonder, if he got caught 230 times, how many times did he not get caught? Usually the ratio is at least two to one, maybe a lot more (10 to 1? LEOs may know).
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:54 PM
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I've worked in small towns as a cop, and small counties as a prosecutor. Percentage wise, they have just as many repugnant people who do vile things as any city in the country. For good measure, many of the potential victims buy in to the folklore and are staggeringly complacent. Mayberry never existed.
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Old 07-25-2020, 12:18 AM
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I've worked in small towns as a cop, and small counties as a prosecutor. Percentage wise, they have just as many repugnant people who do vile things as any city in the country. For good measure, many of the potential victims buy in to the folklore and are staggeringly complacent. Mayberry never existed.
"It is my belief, Watson, founded upon my experience, that the lowest and vilest alleys in London do not present a more dreadful record of sin than does the smiling and beautiful countryside." Sherlock Holmes
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:03 AM
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I used to spend lots of time in the woods without a care...never had a gun back then and I always felt at home out in the woods.

Looking back now, little older and hopefully wiser, I was foolish.
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:37 AM
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I've worked in small towns as a cop, and small counties as a prosecutor. Percentage wise, they have just as many repugnant people who do vile things as any city in the country. For good measure, many of the potential victims buy in to the folklore and are staggeringly complacent. Mayberry never existed.
Nice reference ... I carry everyday except at work and a 10mm is my usual nature gun. Not for sure if being armed would have helped since the s***bags had no hesitation in pulling the trigger. Even when armed if someone pulls a gun on you and they have no concern in pulling the trigger you are deep in doodooville. The willingness to act by an individual goes a long way in determining the outcome whether it be positive or negative.
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Old 07-25-2020, 02:04 PM
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The easiest way to defeat anyone is to ambush the victim(s). A sneak attack on someone who believes they are not combatants.

PS Still doubtful any of these guys had the murderers truck engine. If someone owes you something, murdering them will not get it back for you.
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Old 07-25-2020, 02:41 PM
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Ah, 'fair and balanced' 230 felony arrest nonsense. Here's local reporting with less hype. Alleged gunman in Frostproof murders has long rap sheet - News - The Ledger - Lakeland, FL
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:18 PM
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Ah, 'fair and balanced' 230 felony arrest nonsense. Here's local reporting with less hype. Alleged gunman in Frostproof murders has long rap sheet - News - The Ledger - Lakeland, FL


So, the 230 felony arrest story was nonsense. I guess I'm not getting your point. Are you complaining the news media isn't always accurate? There's a surprise.

Even though he didn't have 230 felony arrests, according to the story you linked, I'm not sure how his real criminal history is any better than the exaggerated version.
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:25 PM
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230 felony charges, not “nonsense”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...119anEQuqPFgjL

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wWP1Q6uaonk5Mo

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wWP1Q6uaonk5Mo
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:28 PM
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I've worked in small towns as a cop, and small counties as a prosecutor. Percentage wise, they have just as many repugnant people who do vile things as any city in the country. For good measure, many of the potential victims buy in to the folklore and are staggeringly complacent. Mayberry never existed.
Back when I used to travel to small towns for work, the two most dangerous towns I went to (statistically anyway) were Norfolk, NE and Fort Dodge, IA. Each had populations around 20K. At the time both had per capita violent crime rates way, way higher than most large cities. Similarly, I saw a "concealed carry" interview with a woman engineer that worked for an oil company. The place that concerned her the most was Williston, ND, not Dallas or OKC.
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Old 07-25-2020, 05:50 PM
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Most of the reports say he has 230 charges, not arrests. A single crackhead burglar could have 30 charges on one arrest. Adds up fast.
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Old 07-26-2020, 09:15 AM
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I used to spend lots of time in the woods without a care...never had a gun back then and I always felt at home out in the woods.

Looking back now, little older and hopefully wiser, I was foolish.
Me too ... BUT the difference back then was convicted murderer's were actually executed . If you don't think the electric chair or gas chamber deters crime ... think again .
A life on easy street with free everything ...from clothes to food to medical and dental care and you don't have to work a lick ....
doesn't sound like any deterrent to crime ... Sounds like Easy Street .
Bleeding heart liberals whine about the death penalty but I bet none have had a child murdered by a career criminal .
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Old 07-26-2020, 09:48 AM
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Most of the reports say he has 230 charges, not arrests. A single crackhead burglar could have 30 charges on one arrest. Adds up fast.
Yes. The enormous number of charges (not arrests) stemmed from two of his 12 juvenile arrests. It took me 30 seconds to find that.

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Old 07-26-2020, 06:17 PM
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Lots of People go to Law School with hopes of becoming an Attorney.... The reality is, if they pass the Bar... with few jobs available ,they either they go to the State Attorneys Office or Public Defenders Office ,where they start out with Traffic, than advance to Misdemeanors, and when somewhat competent, Felony cases... with Speedy Trial, the case charged has to be brought within 6 months, so theres ALOT of plea bargaining going on... Burglary pled down to Trespass, Murder 1 or 2 pled to Manslaughter, etc....In the end, it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong.... It’s who has the BEST (Competent) attorney that wins in Court.

Thats why you see People with multiple charges and few convictions....
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Old 07-26-2020, 07:39 PM
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Love sheriff Judd
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:41 AM
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I don't know... sounds like either made up or they have never been prosecuted and he was never convicted. The max I have seen is 9 former felonies and at the trial of his 10th felony he was convicted to life in prison.
Today, not unusual for felons to serve little or no time. Municipalities dont want to arrest & inprison, it costs a lot of $$$.
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:47 AM
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Back when I used to travel to small towns for work, the two most dangerous towns I went to (statistically anyway) were Norfolk, NE and Fort Dodge, IA. Each had populations around 20K. At the time both had per capita violent crime rates way, way higher than most large cities. Similarly, I saw a "concealed carry" interview with a woman engineer that worked for an oil company. The place that concerned her the most was Williston, ND, not Dallas or OKC.
Per capita numbers, like %, always need to be viewed in context. A city has 1 murder in 2019 & 3 in 2020, 200% increase. Sounds scary but context, only 2 more than previous year. Same for per capita stats. I would feel safer in a town of 5000 with one murder vs city of 500,000 & 100. Per capita is the same but doesnt tell the whole story.
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Old 07-27-2020, 09:59 AM
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..../

..../ 230 felonies presents a problem or two. The first is, how did he get tied to so many without real consequences? Were the investigations substandard? Did the prosecutors do some stupid stuff? I find it hard to believe that someone can have that kind of indications of being a bad actor without being in custody for very long time.
Well...I've just watched a sheriff present the entire case to the press - including a great deal of speculation on his part - in the middle of an on-going investigation where none of the suspects have confessed or plead guilty. Worse he adds personal opinion and inflames public opinion with statements like this:

"He needs to receive a fair trial, the appropriate appeals, and THEN BE EXECUTED."

I get why politicians - and he is clearly politicking - like hims are popular and near unbeatable in their jurisdictions. But the sad reality is that they are a lot less effective because they can can't keep their mouth shut and start spewing what they are thinking.

Yes, most officers in similar situations would be thinking the same thing, but most officers would be professional enough not to say it out loud and not poison the well and make it harder to get a conviction.

The prosecutor's office will have a hard time finding an impartial jury after that hot mess of a press conference and any trial that might occur, won't occur anywhere near there.

Worse, both the defense attorneys and the prosecutor's office know the effects that irresponsible trying of the case in the court of public opinion, has on the ability to get a fair trial, and that has a profound effect on the eventual plea agreements, as the prosecutor ends up taking what he can get to avoid a trial.

Conduct like that is how you get 230 charges and just 15 convictions. It'll also be the major reason TJ Wiggins won't get the death penalty.
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Old 07-27-2020, 10:19 AM
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Back when I used to travel to small towns for work, the two most dangerous towns I went to (statistically anyway) were Norfolk, NE and Fort Dodge, IA. Each had populations around 20K. At the time both had per capita violent crime rates way, way higher than most large cities. Similarly, I saw a "concealed carry" interview with a woman engineer that worked for an oil company. The place that concerned her the most was Williston, ND, not Dallas or OKC.
I used to commute to DC for a couple days every other week. I'd park in Rocky Mount NC and take the train to DC. People comment how unsafe DC is and how high the murder rate is. The Murder rate in DC is in the 21-23 per 100,000 range on average year to year. In Rocky Mount the murder rate is in the 24-28 per 100,000 range on average year to year. On average, the murder rate there is about 45% higher than the national average, and the violent crime rate is upwards of 100% over the national average (and those national averages are driven by large metropolitan areas).

A big contributor to those high rates in Rock Mount is the fact that it has the highest poverty rate of any metropolitan area in NC. Poverty breeds crime and interpersonal conflict almost as well as population density.


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Per capita numbers, like %, always need to be viewed in context. A city has 1 murder in 2019 & 3 in 2020, 200% increase. Sounds scary but context, only 2 more than previous year. Same for per capita stats. I would feel safer in a town of 5000 with one murder vs city of 500,000 & 100. Per capita is the same but doesnt tell the whole story.
Using the Rocky Mount example above, the population there is roughly 54,000 people, so when you talk about a rate of 27 per 100,000 people, you are only talking about 15 homicides per year.

However, that is still a lot of homicides for a community of 55,000 people.

There are however statistical problems with low "N" data. Take Bath NC for example. There are about 268 people there, and murder is a rare event. There's been one in the 12 years i've been here. So it's 11 years of "0 per 100,000" and one year of "373 per 100,000". Bath really wasn't any more dangerous that year, despite the statistics.
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Old 07-27-2020, 10:31 AM
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"Down by the river" is one of the most hazardous places I go. For me it's the Mississippi, not far from St. Louis. Things are generally peaceful there, but sometimes cars-full of people come up from the city to get high and party. I left one remote parking lot because it got full of loud people, hanging out.
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:52 AM
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They all knew the killers, all 6 had arrest records and dope issues.
Is that true? All six had arrest records and knew each other? I hadn't heard that. Any additional info on that?
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Old 07-27-2020, 12:07 PM
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I used to commute to DC for a couple days every other week. I'd park in Rocky Mount NC and take the train to DC. People comment how unsafe DC is and how high the murder rate is. The Murder rate in DC is in the 21-23 per 100,000 range on average year to year. In Rocky Mount the murder rate is in the 24-28 per 100,000 range on average year to year. On average, the murder rate there is about 45% higher than the national average, and the violent crime rate is upwards of 100% over the national average (and those national averages are driven by large metropolitan areas).
Let's not forget that even in high crime urban areas, most of the violent crimes are often focused in specific areas/neighborhoods.
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Old 07-27-2020, 12:12 PM
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Is that true? All six had arrest records and knew each other? I hadn't heard that. Any additional info on that?
Yes. There's convenience store video of them chatting that night.
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:44 PM
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Yes. There's convenience store video of them chatting that night.
Yep. I saw that, but didn't know if they actually knew each other or were just exchanging pleasantries, so to speak. Also, didn't know that the three victims had arrest records. Is that true?

Edit: Oops. Just saw a news article stating that one of the murder victims was going to be arrested later that day for child negligent abuse.

I can imagine that all six "was good people" and were in the process of turning their lives around. Also saw where the sheriff arrested the murderer's father, uncle, and a couple of women for charges unrelated to the murders. They, too, I'm sure were in the process of turning their lives around, too.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that there's a lot more involved in this mess than we're reading in the papers.
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Old 07-27-2020, 03:42 PM
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Stranger homicides, like stranger rapes, are relatively uncommon. In a small community, the odds are everyone knows everyone.
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Old 07-27-2020, 04:15 PM
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I have been jumped and "Roughed Up" in my younger days by the intellectually challenged - may they rest in peace - for rumored insults, alleged improper looks in their direction and supposedly visually admiring his sister from a moving car. No surprise here as the Sheriff says:
"This is a guy who can hurt you because it's the right thing for him to do in that moment in time with his three brain cells," Judd said.

Sad all around.
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Old 07-27-2020, 05:36 PM
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Stranger homicides, like stranger rapes, are relatively uncommon. In a small community, the odds are everyone knows everyone.
I would bet Chicago is an exception.
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Old 07-27-2020, 05:50 PM
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Saw the YouTube.
That Sheriff does sound like he means business.
And he followed up with fast arrests!
Yes I’m impressed!
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Old 07-27-2020, 08:29 PM
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Let's not forget that even in high crime urban areas, most of the violent crimes are often focused in specific areas/neighborhoods.
Absolutely. Nobody went to south east DC after dark, even the police.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:20 AM
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I would bet Chicago is an exception.
*
Probably not. Most violent crime, as someone else pointed out, is very concentrated in relatively small areas, even in the biggest and roughest cities. These are often micro-communities within the bigger city.
Chicago is a boil, but much of it is no worse than any other city.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:37 AM
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Default Huh?

I worked in Southeast...office was in Southeast.

That said, it was/is a ‘rough’ area but it has never been abandoned by the police.

Plus learned a valuable lesson there. Was engaged in a tussle with a bad guy who insisted I shoot him after dragging him out of the middle of the street. Had called it in but there was no opportunity for a follow up requesting an assist...LEO’s will understand.

Lo and behold there were multiple units from various agencies soon there to lend a hand. Seems a concerned citizen had observed I was quite ‘busy’ and dropped a dime on my behalf. Never learned who it was but am still grateful.

Be safe...be well.

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Absolutely. Nobody went to south east DC after dark, even the police.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:48 AM
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I don't leave home without it.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:53 AM
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*
Probably not. Most violent crime, as someone else pointed out, is very concentrated in relatively small areas, even in the biggest and roughest cities. These are often micro-communities within the bigger city.
Chicago is a boil, but much of it is no worse than any other city.
Most murders and rapes are people that know each other - that's just a fact.

Roughly 6% of locations generate 50% of police calls for service; 6% of violent offenders account for well over 60% of violent crime. That's why 3 Strikes laws and repeat offender sentencing have worked for decades to reduce crime rates.

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