Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Concealed Carry & Self Defense All aspects of Concealed and Open Carry, Home and Self Defense.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-27-2020, 10:50 PM
Whit Whit is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baytown, Texas
Posts: 164
Likes: 22
Liked 69 Times in 24 Posts
Default Come Full Circle Back to J Frame

Many years ago (late 60’s) as a rookie police officer a J Frame Chief Special 38 was my off duty piece. Even acquired the latest greatest, a Model 60. After a few years the J Frames were replaced by more powerful, larger off duty side arms.

Now I’ve come full circle with the J Frame being what I conceal carry a big percentage of the time. Some of that is driven by a change in why I carry concealed. No longer a police officer, but rather a civilian concealed carrier, my primary focus now is to be able to protect my wife and I. The concealed carry is to allow me to get out of harms way, not advance toward the sound of battle. As a civilian concealed carrier who was interviewed following an incident in a restaurant where shots were fired when asked why he didn’t engage the shooter, he said my job is to get my family out of there safely. I believe that to be the correct mind set. The little J should be adequate to do that job.

Certainly if my family is not in the equation, my reaction to an incident would likely be different. My responsibility at that point is to do what I can to protect others in harms way and if possible mitigate the situation. Is this circumstance possible, yep. Is it probable, not likely. So playing the odds, the J should serve well in either situation.

The J is easy on the old back, easy to conceal and of sufficient power to offer protection. Absolutely the best, maybe not. Adequate for the average concealed carry individual, probably.

Just my two cents worth. Not making any claims to being an expert. Others may have divergent opinions and that is good. Get two shooters together and you will have three different opinions concerning what is best to carry as a civilian. Neither of the two with three opinions is wrong, just comfortable and confident with their choices, which they should not try to force on others, but be open minded enough to listen carefully to the logic of others and accept or reject their conclusions without criticism.

Stay safe and be blessed.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-27-2020, 11:04 PM
6518John's Avatar
6518John 6518John is offline
SWCA Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AR—Town & Country
Posts: 5,274
Likes: 62,038
Liked 17,340 Times in 4,092 Posts
Default

Whit—the biggest firearms mysteries to me in my lifetime have been:
1. How the small polymer semi-autos have taken over the “J-Frame” segment of the gun market;
2. How regular sized polymer semi-autos took over the police market after I fired and handled several 1-3rd generation S&W;
3. Why revolvers in traditional semi-auto calibers never seem to take off (other than the .45 ACP); and
4. How there was ever a shortage of .22 ammo?

Item 1 surely goes to your post and I agree 100%.
__________________
RIP Joe, Dan M., Mike.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 07-27-2020, 11:40 PM
ISCS Yoda's Avatar
ISCS Yoda ISCS Yoda is offline
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 6,102
Likes: 1,498
Liked 8,067 Times in 3,012 Posts
Default

I agree. I routinely carry a M649. If I THINK I will be somewhere that could be a target then I'll up the ante to a small frame 9mm, of which I have several. Sometimes I just up the ante by 1 round and carry a snubby K frame!

Since I have been in the firearms world a long time I'd like to take a crak at those questions.

Quote:
1. How the small polymer semi-autos have taken over the “J-Frame” segment of the gun market;
Answer A. Marketing/TV/Hollywood, but mostly marketing. As long as you're not referring to the nicely sized but polymer framed 9mm like a Shield or a Walther CCP. Then it's firepower - see my remarks above.

Answer B. I have no idea why anyone prefers a teenie automatic pistol to a steel framed J frame unless, maybe, you're carrying that thing in a bathing suit pocket or you're a lady and carrying it hooked onto an undergarment.

Quote:
2. How regular sized polymer semi-autos took over the police market after I fired and handled several 1-3rd generation S&W;
That is a mystery I cannot fathom. I know the excuses for it but it just doesn't work for me.

Quote:
3. Why revolvers in traditional semi-auto calibers never seem to take off (other than the .45 ACP);
I think my answer there is that the moon clip thing is a very negative concept. BICBW. I admit I am not into semi-auto calibers in revolvers for that reason. If I want a 9mm I can use a .38. And so forth.
Quote:

4. How there was ever a shortage of .22 ammo?
The same way there was a shortage of toilet paper............
__________________
Come and take it!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 07-28-2020, 03:29 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Harlem, Ohio
Posts: 8,798
Likes: 11,133
Liked 12,953 Times in 4,821 Posts
Default

People think that a steel J frame is heavy compared to a LCP. After less than 10 consecutive days of carry, you won't notice either is there! Unless your clothes are skin tight, nobody else will notice either! It is all marketing!

When I bought my last dress suite, I had it tailored while wearing my Sig 229 IWB at 4 O'clock, spare mag OWB 7 O'clock. None of that is like shopping of the Walmart rack but it wasn't more than $35 extra!

EDC a J-frame with pocket carry is much easier, and less noticeable (UNLESS YOU WEAR YOGA PANTS!)

Ivan
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 07-28-2020, 06:57 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,433
Likes: 3,503
Liked 3,920 Times in 1,939 Posts
Default

I carry a J-frame S&W when I need something super compact. It does carry well in a pocket holster and can completely disappear in an IWB holster.
__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 07-28-2020, 07:38 AM
AppStFan AppStFan is offline
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Thanks for your perspective on "coming full circle". I started my law enforcement career carrying a K frame Smith & Wesson revolver. Now that I am retired and in my mid 60's I am seriously considering "coming full circle" and going back to carrying a Smith & Wesson revolver and it will probably be a J frame.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 07-28-2020, 08:28 AM
Johnnu2 Johnnu2 is offline
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NYS
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Liked 262 Times in 92 Posts
Default

I seldom carry anymore; but when I do, it's always this J frame in a pocket holster.


Last edited by Johnnu2; 07-28-2020 at 08:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 07-28-2020, 08:33 AM
cmansguns's Avatar
cmansguns cmansguns is offline
US Veteran
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hanover, Virginia
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 1,866
Liked 2,833 Times in 756 Posts
Default

I have carried J Frame for EDC since first CCW permit in New York in 1971. Model 36, then Model 60, then finally 20 years ago a Model 637. Same frame gun for 49 years through NY, NJ, OH, MO, and currently VA. I've gotten used to the weight, location and feel confident about my skills with the gun.....read comfortable with it in my hands for a situation where I can't immediately put a safe alternative into play.

With that being said, my youngest daughter is a State LEO in another state. She is 31 years old, excellent health and physically fit. Her issued duty weapon is a Glock 21, Gen 4 in 45ACP.

Her "duty belt" with 2 spare fully charged double stack mags w/ carriers, baton, flashlight, retention level 3 holster, double belt, taser, key fob w/keys, handcuffs and case weighs in with fully charged Glock (1 in pipe, full mag) at 23.5 lbs.! This doesn't count armored vest, radio, body cam...so...quite a load for anyone.

This (weight) may be one of the reasons polymer guns replaced steel or even alloy framed semi's.

Personally, at age 75 I'm still comfortable carrying a J frame with 5 additional rounds in my off-side pocket, but that's it. Put a 18 lb. bag of dog food on my shoulders and I'm somewhat at a major disadvantage for even walking, much less encountering a self defense situation. Can't even imagine toting 23.5 lbs plus around all shift, every day for 20 years or more.

Evidently capacity of guns and carried spare ammo had a lot to do with evolution to polymer and double stacks for LEO agencies. There is no refuting that my 10 rounds total would be more than inadequate up against a LEO with almost a full box of ammo on their person.

Big Time Shoutouts to all you LEO's and I'm thinking that you are sure entitled to "shed some weight" in retirement and back off to a J Frame for EDC as a civilian. Thanks for all you have done over your career, and enjoy retirement...you have earned it!
Attached Thumbnails
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame-m-36-g-jpg   Come Full Circle Back to J Frame-model-60-jpg   Come Full Circle Back to J Frame-s-w-38-spl-2-jpg  
__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:12 AM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is online now
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 8,830
Liked 8,444 Times in 2,912 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John View Post
1. How the small polymer semi-autos have taken over the “J-Frame” segment of the gun market;
2. How regular sized polymer semi-autos took over the police market after I fired and handled several 1-3rd generation S&W;
3. Why revolvers in traditional semi-auto calibers never seem to take off (other than the .45 ACP); and
4. How there was ever a shortage of .22 ammo?
1. Thinner with more capacity. Combined with the overall decline in popularity of revolvers for most people, especially those new to guns, and it's not hard to see.

2. They're lighter, cost less, and get the job done with higher capacity. Easier, thus less $$, to maintain. Glock selling guns to LE agencies at a loss in the 80s to get their foot in the door helped a lot.

3. Not sure on this one, but my guess would be the need for moon clips, combined with the existence of revolver rounds with the same level of power being available. Basically, what ISCS Yoda said.

4. Demand greater than supply. Same as any other shortage.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:14 AM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 4,905
Likes: 4,228
Liked 4,830 Times in 2,367 Posts
Default

Same story here .
1967 All steel , J-frame square butt , blue steel, 2 " 38 Special

Go through many semi-auto's over the years and I realize...

2004 Airweight , RB , alloy/stainless , 2" 38 special is still the best .
It took a while but I've come full circle and stopped looking .

Gary
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Last edited by gwpercle; 07-28-2020 at 09:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:32 AM
Old cop Old cop is offline
US Veteran
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,442
Likes: 2,310
Liked 10,950 Times in 3,156 Posts
Default

Got my first J Frame in ‘68 when I graduated from the police academy and still carry a 340PD in retirement.
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 07-28-2020, 02:18 PM
haywood's Avatar
haywood haywood is offline
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. Ohio
Posts: 1,248
Likes: 6,475
Liked 1,790 Times in 691 Posts
Default

I always liked Snub Revolvers. Always had one of some sort in my pocket. I tried for a number of years to find “ The Semi Auto For Me”. I’ve carried to J-Frames now for at least 4 years. I’ve been carrying only Revolvers for at least 6 years. I never did find the Semi Auto that I couldn’t live without.
__________________
Two Revolvers every day
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:46 PM
rock n roll kid rock n roll kid is offline
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: indiana
Posts: 454
Likes: 0
Liked 170 Times in 73 Posts
Default semi auto wins

carried a j frame smith 38 for over 20 years. never did shoot it really good , it was plain difficult to hit accurately with beyond 20-30 ' . the 158 grain treasury load was a handful in that smallish framed gun .
carry a glock 43 or a sig 365 depending on where i am going to .
TO ME the bottom line reads ... i shoot the autos better , more accurate in my hands , & somewhat quicker reloads not to mention the capacity advantage . i do not miss the j frame at all !
as a bonus .... i can carry either of my choices in pocket carry desantis pocket holster for both , just like the j frame.
the small frame revolver is not a bad choice . but for me the autos have too much going for them to accept the small revolvers . my 02

Last edited by rock n roll kid; 07-29-2020 at 04:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-29-2020, 05:13 PM
Old cop Old cop is offline
US Veteran
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,442
Likes: 2,310
Liked 10,950 Times in 3,156 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rock n roll kid View Post
carried a j frame smith 38 for over 20 years. never did shoot it really good , it was plain difficult to hit accurately with beyond 20-30 ' . the 158 grain treasury load was a handful in that smallish framed gun .
carry a glock 43 or a sig 365 depending on where i am going to .
TO ME the bottom line reads ... i shoot the autos better , more accurate in my hands , & somewhat quicker reloads not to mention the capacity advantage . i do not miss the j frame at all !
as a bonus .... i can carry either of my choices in pocket carry desantis pocket holster for both , just like the j frame.
the small frame revolver is not a bad choice . but for me the autos have too much going for them to accept the small revolvers . my 02
Understood and I might do the same if I could find a 9MM as light as the 340PD. Given my handicap it’s all about saving weight so the LCP goes into my pocket sometimes.
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 07-29-2020, 07:30 PM
SquarePizza SquarePizza is offline
Member
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CNY
Posts: 444
Likes: 60
Liked 450 Times in 186 Posts
Default

For two years I carried a 649 every day doing grave shift EMS. It wasn't until covid and the riots that I started carrying a glock (1st a 26 then replaced by a 39).

I don't carry a glock because I feel under gunned with the J-frame, but rather I carry a polymer gun because if I have an exposure, then all of my clothes can go direct to laundry and all of things in my pockets come into the shower with me.

While the 649 is stainless and the internals in mine have been hard chromed, it could still be 3-4 days before I can do a detail strip to clean the water out of the tiny little spaces and little springs/pins/etc. It is just easier to get to all the little parts on a glock.

In my daily life, the 649 is back in my pocket.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:44 PM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame Come Full Circle Back to J Frame  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 5,604
Likes: 19,288
Liked 18,348 Times in 4,085 Posts
Default

My almost always carry piece is my S&W 642-1 shown at left with my
Piranha knife.

2nd from left is a Black Hills shark pancake and Crescent shark belt.
I carry high and tight at about 4 O'Clock.

3rd from left is a little Chic Gaylord speed scabbard. The belt loop is
so narrow I had to go back to this old Uncle Mike belt.

4th from left is another Black Hills pancake. This one with lizard trim
on a lizard belt.

5th from left in a faux gator pancake on a gator belt.

I prefer the open tops when carrying concealed. Just a little bit faster.
Attached Thumbnails
Come Full Circle Back to J Frame-sam_1229-jpg   Come Full Circle Back to J Frame-sam_0731-jpg   Come Full Circle Back to J Frame-sam_1440-jpg   Come Full Circle Back to J Frame-sam_0696-jpg   Come Full Circle Back to J Frame-sam_0662-jpg  

__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full circle back to the s&w 357 magnum BigBill S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 52 01-15-2017 03:14 AM
Going Full Circle Nathan King New Members Introduction 15 02-14-2013 09:33 PM
Full circle (new 9c) southchatham Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 2 03-23-2012 01:41 PM
31 years to go full circle Coldshooter S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 18 01-20-2012 05:21 PM
Mod 15-3 Full circle with a K frame ctgmi S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 8 03-09-2010 10:02 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:18 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)