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Old 07-28-2020, 07:48 PM
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Default Question for CO folks re: magazine limits

We will be vacationing in CO later this summer, and will be spending most of our time there knocking around in the back country of the San Juans.

I like to have a rifle when in the boonies, and would like to bring one of my ARs for that purpose. I have a number of magazines that were purchased prior to 2013, so I would be technically legal under the current law in CO as I understand it.

My question is what is the enforcement environment like with the rural and National Forest cops? Do they care? Are they likely to hassle folks?
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:03 PM
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Here is the text of the law

C.R.S. 18-12-302


COLORADO REVISED STATUTES

* This document reflects changes current through all laws passed at the
Second Regular Session of the Sixty-Ninth General Assembly
of the State of Colorado (2014)
and changes approved by the electorate at the November 2014 election *

TITLE 18. CRIMINAL CODE
ARTICLE 12. OFFENSES RELATING TO FIREARMS AND WEAPONS
PART 3. LARGE-CAPACITY AMMUNITION MAGAZINES

C.R.S. 18-12-302 (2014)

18-12-302. Large-capacity magazines prohibited - penalties - exceptions



(1) (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, on and after July 1, 2013, a person who sells, transfers, or possesses a large-capacity magazine commits a class 2 misdemeanor.

(b) Any person who violates this subsection (1) after having been convicted of a prior violation of said subsection (1) commits a class 1 misdemeanor.

(c) Any person who violates this subsection (1) commits a class 6 felony if the person possessed a large-capacity magazine during the commission of a felony or any crime of violence, as defined in section 18-1.3-406.

(2) (a) A person may possess a large-capacity magazine if he or she:

(I) Owns the large-capacity magazine on July 1, 2013; and

(II) Maintains continuous possession of the large-capacity magazine.

(b) If a person who is alleged to have violated subsection (1) of this section asserts that he or she is permitted to legally possess a large-capacity magazine pursuant to paragraph (a) of this subsection (2), the prosecution has the burden of proof to refute the assertion.

(3) The offense described in subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to:

(a) An entity, or any employee thereof engaged in his or her employment duties, that manufactures large-capacity magazines within Colorado exclusively for transfer to, or any licensed gun dealer, as defined in section 12-26.1-106 (6), C.R.S., or any employee thereof engaged in his or her official employment duties, that sells large-capacity magazines exclusively to:

(I) A branch of the armed forces of the United States;

(II) A department, agency, or political subdivision of the state of Colorado, or of any other state, or of the United States government;

(III) A firearms retailer for the purpose of firearms sales conducted outside the state;

(IV) A foreign national government that has been approved for such transfers by the United States government; or

(V) An out-of-state transferee who may legally possess a large-capacity magazine; or

(b) An employee of any of the following agencies who bears a firearm in the course of his or her official duties:

(I) A branch of the armed forces of the United States; or

(II) A department, agency, or political subdivision of the state of Colorado, or of any other state, or of the United States government; or

(c) A person who possesses the magazine for the sole purpose of transporting the magazine to an out-of-state entity on behalf of a manufacturer of large-capacity magazines within Colorado.

If you owned the magazine prior to July 2013 you should be in compliance the law. I don't see any thing that prohibits bring one in from out of state but I don't see an exemption either.

There have been people charged under the law but they were all people who had other charges and the magazine restriction was an add on. Having said that I wouldn't base my plans on the cop not enforcing the law.

Last edited by Smoke; 07-31-2020 at 04:20 AM.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:07 PM
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Owns the large-capacity magazine on July 1, 2013; and
How does one prove that?????
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:16 PM
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How does one prove that?????

Burden of proof is on the prosecution.

(b) If a person who is alleged to have violated subsection (1) of this section asserts that he or she is permitted to legally possess a large-capacity magazine pursuant to paragraph (a) of this subsection (2), the prosecution has the burden of proof to refute the assertion.


If you have a magazine that was introduced after July 13 (Glock 17 gen five) their job is easier.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:28 PM
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Important to know if you're carrying a rifle

33-6-125. Possession Of A Loaded Firearm In A Motor Vehicle.
It is unlawful for any person, except a person authorized by law or by the division, to possess or have under his control any firearm, other than a pistol or revolver, in or on any motor vehicle unless the chamber of such firearm is unloaded. Any person in possession or in control of a rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle shall allow any peace officer, as defined in section 33-1-102 (32), who is empowered and acting under the authority granted in section 33-6-101 to enforce articles 1 to 6 of this title to inspect the chamber of any rifle or shotgun in the motor vehicle. For the purposes of this section, a "muzzle-loader" shall be considered unloaded if it is not primed, and, for such purpose, "primed" means having a percussion cap on the nipple or flint in the striker and powder in the flash pan. Any person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of fifty dollars and an assessment of fifteen license suspension points.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
Here is the text of the text of the law

*snip*


If you owned the magazine prior to July 2013 you should be in compliance the law. I don't see any thing that prohibits bring one in from out of state but I don't see an exemption either.

There have been people charged under the law but they were all people who had other charges and the magazine restriction was an add on. Having said that I wouldn't base my plans on the cop not enforcing the law.
Thank you. I had read the text, and I am legal to possess the magazines in CO under at least two sections of the statute.

What I was really looking for is a "weather report" on the local LE attitude for the law. Sounds like things are pretty reasonable, but I'm willing to bring something other than an AR if necessary to avoid hassles.

And the transportation statute is no big deal. I would never drive around with a chambered rifle in any normal circumstance.

Thanks again.

If any other CO locals have other experiences, I'd love to hear them.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:28 AM
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If you want to bring the AR and not deal with the headache you could just bring 10 round magazines. I know it’s ridiculous, but it is an option.
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Old 07-31-2020, 03:00 AM
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Well, I retired from there in 2014, and as I recall, there were quite a few sheriffs around the state that opposed those laws. The major complaints were infringement and the burden of proof, which made it essentially a worthless law. No one that I know has ever heard of any prosecutions. IMO not something to worry about too much, if at all. Be nice to the deputies and they'll be nice to you.
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by GerSan69 View Post
Well, I retired from there in 2014, and as I recall, there were quite a few sheriffs around the state that opposed those laws. The major complaints were infringement and the burden of proof, which made it essentially a worthless law. No one that I know has ever heard of any prosecutions. IMO not something to worry about too much, if at all. Be nice to the deputies and they'll be nice to you.
Terry Maketa was one of the most vocal opponents of the law and he stated very clearly that if the law was passed he would be required to enforce it.

Six Years In, Few People Have Been Sentenced Under Colorado’s Large-Capacity Magazine Ban | KUNC

According to this article people were charged under the magazine restriction in 104 cases. They were found guilty and sentenced in 11 cases.

From the article

"Data from Colorado’s Office of the State Court Administrator analyzed by Guns & America show that since 2013, 104 cases have included charges for violating this statute.

Over the six years the ban has been in place, just 11 people, all men in their 20s and 30s, have been convicted and sentenced for violating the magazine ban."

As I said earlier, I don't think knowingly violating a law and hoping the police won't charge you is a good plan. You are essentially betting your future on what kind of mood the next cop you run into is in and from everything I've heard the cops in Colorado are becoming less and less supportive of the second amendment by the year.

Last edited by Smoke; 07-31-2020 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 07-31-2020, 07:57 AM
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I can walk into any gun store, in the area, and buy a large capacity magazine...
Most sheriffs have decided that the law is unenforceable, and don't even try, unless there are other charges. And most gun store owners, don't really care about the law, either.
That said, I would get the 10-round mags, just to be safe.
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:18 AM
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Headed down a slippery slope, we had a grandfather clause like that in NY. Until the Safe Act was passed in 2013 which made all magazines with over a 10 round capacity illegal, regardless of when you bought them.

Vote carefully.
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:29 AM
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If you are just knocking around in the woods and not expecting to have to defend your tent against and armed invasion, I would agree, why go through the even possible aggravation and potential legal costs and just bring some 10 round magazines.
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:02 AM
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As I said earlier, I don't think knowingly violating a law and hoping the police won't charge you is a good plan.
I agree that wouldn't be a good plan, but I'm not planning on violating any laws. As I noted, I have magazines that are absolutely legal under the CO statute, and I am legal under at least one other provision. I'm not worried about being legal.

I was interested in knowing which way the wind was blowing with rural LE in CO, and I think I've had that question answered at this point.

Thank you all for your responses.
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:35 AM
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That said, I would get the 10-round mags, just to be safe.
If the limit is 15 why would you get 10?
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
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I agree that wouldn't be a good plan, but I'm not planning on violating any laws. As I noted, I have magazines that are absolutely legal under the CO statute, and I am legal under at least one other provision. I'm not worried about being legal.

I was interested in knowing which way the wind was blowing with rural LE in CO, and I think I've had that question answered at this point.

Thank you all for your responses.
I didn't mean you specifically
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Old 07-31-2020, 12:01 PM
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Keep in mind that you cannot hunt big game in Colorado with a 223 or any rifle with a magazine that holds more than 5 rounds. These regulations are vigorously enforced.

If you’re wandering around in our mountains with a 223 with 10, 15, 20 or 30 round magazines during a hunting season, you may well run into trouble.

Even if you’re not hunting, because of the limits on magazine capacity and caliber for hunting, you may encounter greater enforcement of the overall magazine limit (15 rounds) as a by product of the limits on hunting arms.
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Old 07-31-2020, 12:27 PM
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This thread covers some of the reasons I got a CZ 527FS in .223/5.56 with 5rd detachable mags and a Ruger Ranch rifle that takes 10rd AR mags......options

add in a few revolvers and speedloaders...... more options.
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Old 07-31-2020, 01:45 PM
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Here is the infringement that gets me. You have to let a LEO check you rifle to see if the chamber is loaded. Presumption of guilt. Illegal search in my nick of the woods

Here a LEO can not search my car without a warrant unless there is a violation in plain sight. My vehicle is an extension of my home. Look at my rifle are you kidding me? My rifle is none of his business. I have every right in the world to have a loaded rifle in my rig. Only time I can't have a gun is when I am using a spot light at night and don't have the land owners permission to do so.
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Old 07-31-2020, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodan View Post
...

I was interested in knowing which way the wind was blowing with rural LE in CO, and I think I've had that question answered at this point.

Thank you all for your responses.
A little late to reply, but I live in the mountains west of Denver, and have never had an issue with magazine capacity possession. From what I've seen, that charge is usually piled to others as a plea bargain chip. Not to say that a LEO in a bad mood might not force the issue, but personally it hasn't been a problem. I hope you have a good visit.
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Old 07-31-2020, 02:29 PM
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Just make sure the AR serial number is prior to 2013 as You got the mags with the gun.
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Old 07-31-2020, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
I didn't mean you specifically
No worries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpg
If you’re wandering around in our mountains with a 223 with 10, 15, 20 or 30 round magazines during a hunting season, you may well run into trouble.
So, G&F agents are the same everywhere...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM
This thread covers some of the reasons I got a CZ 527FS in .223/5.56 with 5rd detachable mags and a Ruger Ranch rifle that takes 10rd AR mags......options
I have a CZ 527 in 7.62x39... that or my Marlin 1894C are my fallback options.
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Old 07-31-2020, 02:53 PM
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Don't take this to the bank yet, but I have heard that rural LE in Colorado is mostly reluctant to enforce these statutes. Many county sheriffs in CO strongly objected to these laws when they were passed.
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Old 07-31-2020, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
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No worries.



So, G&F agents are the same everywhere...



I have a CZ 527 in 7.62x39... that or my Marlin 1894C are my fallback options.
Other handy little rifles are:

my Ruger 77/357 w/ 5rd detachable rotary mag .... easy to carry 1 or 2 extra mags and an ammo wallet(s) with 158gr soft points.....pairs nicely with a .357 revolver.

Don't have one but CZ makes a handy little 527 carbine (18" IIRC) in 7.62x39 Maybe what you have now??

Finally my Ruger Mini-14 w/ small 1-3x20 weaver scope.... factory 10 rd mags which are almost flush fit...... another one or two 10rd mags and one or two 20 rounders in the pack ...... just in case.
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:32 PM
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Don't have one but CZ makes a handy little 527 carbine (18" IIRC) in 7.62x39 Maybe what you have now??
Exactly that. I set mine up with an XS scout rail and forward mounted 2x7. Nice little 6lb package...

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Old 08-10-2020, 10:20 AM
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I visit CO regularly, and have an IL CCW, but CO doesn't recognize IL. I previously understood you could carry a loaded handgun in your auto in CO without a CCW.

As the above seems to read you can carry a handgun in your auto console with a loaded magazine but none in the chamber. Is this Correct?
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Old 08-10-2020, 10:48 AM
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The CO statute exempts a "pistol or revolver" from the prohibition on loaded chamber in a vehicle.

For reference, it's CRS 33-6-125

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It is unlawful for any person, except a person authorized by law or by the division, to possess or have under the person's control any firearm, other than a pistol or revolver, in or on any motor vehicle unless the chamber of the firearm is unloaded.
Emphasis added.
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
Terry Maketa was one of the most vocal opponents of the law and he stated very clearly that if the law was passed he would be required to enforce it.

Six Years In, Few People Have Been Sentenced Under Colorado’s Large-Capacity Magazine Ban | KUNC

According to this article people were charged under the magazine restriction in 104 cases. They were found guilty and sentenced in 11 cases.

From the article

"Data from Colorado’s Office of the State Court Administrator analyzed by Guns & America show that since 2013, 104 cases have included charges for violating this statute.

Over the six years the ban has been in place, just 11 people, all men in their 20s and 30s, have been convicted and sentenced for violating the magazine ban."

As I said earlier, I don't think knowingly violating a law and hoping the police won't charge you is a good plan. You are essentially betting your future on what kind of mood the next cop you run into is in and from everything I've heard the cops in Colorado are becoming less and less supportive of the second amendment by the year.
Terry Makita is long gone as El Paso county sheriff.
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Old 08-10-2020, 12:59 PM
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If I were faced with making the decision you are facing I would simply carry my Remington 870 12ga with ext. mag and would not feel one bit under-gunned. If the law permitted I would also carry a side arm.


Why would you knowingly risk having to defend yourself in the legal system of a state you don't even live in......could be expensive even if you beat the charges!
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Old 08-10-2020, 01:17 PM
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Avoid the hassle. Instead of a 20 round magazine, bring two 10s.
Or, bring an M-1 carbine.
15-round magazine is legal.
Since many people come here for the marijuana, expect to be searched driving home through non-marijuana states. Be aware of their gun laws, too.
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Old 08-10-2020, 01:48 PM
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Question for CO folks re:  magazine limits Question for CO folks re:  magazine limits Question for CO folks re:  magazine limits Question for CO folks re:  magazine limits Question for CO folks re:  magazine limits  
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If I were faced with making the decision you are facing I would simply carry my Remington 870 12ga with ext. mag and would not feel one bit under-gunned. If the law permitted I would also carry a side arm.


Why would you knowingly risk having to defend yourself in the legal system of a state you don't even live in......could be expensive even if you beat the charges!
The 2013 Colorado law also covers extended magazines on shotguns.
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Old 08-10-2020, 02:07 PM
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i agree that wouldn't be a good plan, but I'm not planning on violating any laws. As I noted, I have magazines that are absolutely legal under the CO statute, and I am legal under at least one other provision. I'm not worried about being legal.
You're missing the subtle point. The trick is to not get arrested. Happily being "legal" doesn't matter the day that you encounter an LEO with the wrong attitude. The prosecution might have the burden of proof but you have the burden of defen$e and if you get arre$ted you have al$o $poiled your vacation in Colorado.

Since it's relatively inexpensive to obtain 10 round magazines (I don't know if they can be taped together as is often done with longer, higher capacity magazines) which ensure that you cannot be confused with a law violator why would you not do that?

Seriously, you're driving around with out of state plates, you're every cop's favorite target if you speed, run a red light or a stop sign, or just look out of place in the boonies. You get the wrong officer on the wrong day and now you're sitting there telling the LEO how you bought your magazines in 2010 but the officer is not convinced and you're being annoying waving your Second Amendment rights around and your alleged "legality".

I get the legality but on the wrong day with the wrong LEO it doesn't matter. There goes your vacation because you're too proud of your rights to not ensure that you're not carrying a POSSIBLY illegal item.

I'm not being mean or sarcastic to pick on the OP but CajunLawyer on this Forum would tell you the same thing this Jedi lawyer will tell you - you're assuming a huge risk with no reward. No benefit to you. None. Good luck with that.
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Old 08-10-2020, 02:19 PM
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The 2013 Colorado law also covers extended magazines on shotguns.
If that is in fact the case I simply return the 870 to factory magazine before arrival in CO and same applies......not one bit under-gunned against anything you will encounter in the woods........hard to beat a pump shotgun in 12 GA
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Old 08-10-2020, 02:58 PM
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Hard to imagine the infringement on my God-given Constitutional rights I suffered as a teen and young man forced to endure 20 gauge minimum and 3 shot rules. Darn Commies Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, and Reagan!

Is it possible we might be a tad over-sensitive these days?

Last edited by biku324; 08-10-2020 at 03:00 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:34 AM
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We have had restrictions on magazine capacity on things like Waterfowl Hunting and Target Clay courses. Not a new concept by any means.

Bob
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Old Yesterday, 10:50 AM
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One of the reasons I am getting a lever gun - even when set up as much like my AR as possible, it does not have the connotation and does not present the same kinds of problems in hostile territory.
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Old Yesterday, 11:55 AM
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One of the reasons I am getting a lever gun - even when set up as much like my AR as possible, it does not have the connotation and does not present the same kinds of problems in hostile territory.
That's one reason I got this 357 Rossi. I can leave it leaning up against the living room wall and my liberal wife won't bat an eye.
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