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  #51  
Old 08-25-2020, 01:07 PM
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In these troubled times, a flamethrower just might be what is necessary.

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Old 08-25-2020, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceasedeye View Post
MYTH? The 357 bullet that was designed to bust engine blocks: That round was manufactured until about 1960 or so. Nearly any current . 357 round will knock a hole in a modern car engine block.May 10, 2010
The High Road
Okay, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here... The .357 Magnum cartridge was neither designed to pierce engine blocks, nor was it ever capable of doing so.
You may be thinking of the fact that .357 Magnum was known and praised for its ability to reliably pierce auto bodies and windshields whereas early round-nose .38 Specials had a reputation for being stopped by car doors if they struck one of the more reinforced parts of the door or being redirected by windshields of more slanted angles, but .357 Magnum cannot pierce an engine block.

Heck, not even the .500 S&W Magnum (which is currently the most powerful commercially available handgun cartridge) can pierce an engine block. Don't take my word for it though, Google it, folks have tested what can and cannot in fact pierce an engine block many times over, complete with unedited videos of said tests being conducted, and the results are honestly quite shocking just how sturdy an engine block actually is.

The .357 Magnum cartridge's supposed ability to pierce engine blocks is pure Urban Legend the likes of Winter Coats being able to stop small caliber handgun bullets or .45 caliber handguns being able to knock a man clean off of his feet.

There is a wide variety of folklore, myths, and legends in regards to the effectiveness (or lack thereof) regarding particular firearms/ammunition, all of which is (as the names suggest) exaggeration at best.
Furthermore, there is a lot of fabrication in the media concocted either for the sake of entertainment or sometimes to push a particular narrative for political purposes. So you really have to take everything you see or hear regarding firearms with a grain of salt.

To provide a personal example, for the longest time I carried a .380 ACP pistol exclusively because I had been mislead by things that I had heard online about how even standard pressure 9mm Luger was a powerhouse Military cartridge which offered the absolute best ballistics performance and how anything more powerful was either excessive, dangerous, or somehow offered no practical advantage, so being a simple civilian, .380 ACP seemed more than adequate.
However, as time passed and I learned more about firearms, I came to realize just how misguided I was, how inaccurate the statements I heard were, and just how many nonsensical statements are made on a daily basis on the internet by novices masquerading as experts. Now I carry a double stack semiautomatic pistol chambered in .40 S&W, a cartridge which is claimed by certain folks (who consider themselves experts and even make a living training/instructing others) to be so volatile that it literally tears guns apart, yet inexplicably offers no ballistic advantage over 9mm Luger.

TL;DR: Don't believe everything you hear about firearms because most of it is complete nonsense and always check your facts, lest you end up posting threads and arguing with folks based on complete misinformation.
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Old 08-25-2020, 01:26 PM
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DATA! we need data,,

This video has pretty good data to answer the .38 question,,
(I like the conclusions,,,)

I also laugh when YouTube "closed captioning" spells Greg Ellifritz name as "elephant",,,


My interpretation of the video is that if you got a 38,, carry a 38,,,

Am I right or wrong?
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Old 08-25-2020, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Deceasedeye View Post
MYTH? The 357 bullet that was designed to bust engine blocks: That round was manufactured until about 1960 or so. Nearly any current . 357 round will knock a hole in a modern car engine block.May 10, 2010
The High Road
Well, you're link didn't work, but I was able to use Google and find the thread in question, which supports the fact that busting a car engine with .357 Magnum is a myth.

Here's the link to the actual thread (Mods, if this is inappropriate, please delete):

Can it really split an engine block? | The High Road

And the post in question:

Quote:
There was a special armor piercing truncated cone .357 bullet that was designed to bust engine blocks: That round was manufactured until about 1960 or so.
In other words, a specially-designed bullet, that is no longer made, was required to punch a hole in an engine. Which, by the way, is waaaaaaaaay different than splitting an engine block, which is the myth the thread is alluding to.

Here's something for you to read:

This guy actually fired a 158gr JHP .357 Magnum round into an engine block, a round that is far more likely to be used than a 40+ year-old specialty bullet.

The Box O' Truth #54 - Busting an Engine Block - The Box O' Truth

And here's what the bullet did to the block:



From the caption:

Quote:
It only made a lead smear on the block. No ďbustingĒ of the block at all.
So, yes. The notion that the .357 Magnum can bust an engine block is a myth.

In other words, you are mythtaken.

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Old 08-25-2020, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SweetMK View Post
DATA! we need data,,

This video has pretty good data to answer the .38 question,,
(I like the conclusions,,,)

I also laugh when YouTube "closed captioning" spells Greg Ellifritz name as "elephant",,,

The Best Handgun Caliber - A Real World Study - YouTube

My interpretation of the video is that if you got a 38,, carry a 38,,,

Am I right or wrong?
It's been a while since I've seen that video, but the original study that Ellifritz did can be found here:

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association

To sum it up, all the handgun service calibers (.38 Special, 9mm, .357 Magnum, .40S&W, .45ACP, etc.) perform about the same in actual shootings. Any difference/advantage one may have over another is so small as to be insignificant.

My take? Pick a caliber/gun combination you like that's reliable with a good quality HP, can shoot well, and will have with you if you need it. 5-shot snub or 16-shot Glock, .38 Special or .45ACP. Your ability to get good hits when it counts is going to matter more than how big or small your bullets are.

Just my opinion.

Last edited by ContinentalOp; 08-25-2020 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 08-25-2020, 01:52 PM
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I carry a 360 AirWeight with 125 gr .357, but what I shoot are lower velocity rounds between 1150 and 1250 fps and the guns shoots to point of aim and it fairly accurate too. I don't shoot .38 +p out of it because I don't want to have to clean the powder rings out of the cylinder all of the time. Even with the Hogue monogrip on it I cannot handle the hotter .357 loads pushing 1450 to 1500 fps, just too brutal on the hands to shoot more than a few rounds and recoil from a pistol has never been a problem with me until I bought the AirWeight.

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  #57  
Old 08-25-2020, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
In other words, a specially-designed bullet, that is no longer made, was required to punch a hole in an engine. Which, by the way, is waaaaaaaaay different than splitting an engine block, which is the myth the thread is alluding to.
Amusingly enough, I am aware of the bullet he's referring to, it was not designed to pierce an engine block, cannot pierce an engine block, and is the origin of yet another enduring, comically nonsensical Urban Legend.

KTW Teflon-Coated "Cop-Killer" Bullets

The bullet he is referring to was a steel-core, hard brass semiwadcutter bullet with a green teflon coating to protect the rifling. The bullet was designed for and marketed towards Law Enforcement, but eventually the media did what they're famous for and ran sensationalist reports about how it was "Cop-Killer" ammunition, complete with outrageous claims that it's amazing armor-piercing capabilities were all thanks to the special coating on the outside of the bullet.

Eventually the bullet was taken off the market and the company who produced it went away, but the bullet had left it's mark upon the world by spawning the silly urban legend that teflon-coatings somehow make bullets armor-piercing, not to mention popularized the "Cop-Killer Bullets" buzzword as well as armor-piercing bullets being green-tipped in popular culture which eventually became reality as modern armor-piercing ammo is often marked with a green tip.
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Old 08-25-2020, 03:33 PM
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I think the question should be; for what are you preparing?

If you believe that you will most likely encounter an adversary that is lightly clothed (or unclothed) standing square to you, with no obstacles or limbs between you and his/her COM, and will hold still for you, then sure, .38 or .380, or 9mm are all great calibers that will do the job.

If, however, you don't think those conditions are likely, or believe it's impossible to know what the conditions might be, then it might be wise to plan for worst-case and carry .45 or .357 instead.


We had a saying in flying, "plan for the worst and hope for the best". All the takeoff data is based on three engines (even though we had four). Landing data is based on thrust reversers not opening.

Carry whatever makes you comfortable, but think about all aspects of the scenario most likely to occur. People make a big stink about over penetration, but never consider that you will never be mugged in a crowd of people; you'll be mugged in the alley and there won't be anyone behind the perp, except maybe another perp.
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Old 08-25-2020, 05:34 PM
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All this engine block talk! Last month in Cincinnati, we had a whackjob in an 18 wheeler involved in a 2 hour police chase. Long story short. The CPD SWAT team deployed a sniper with a .50BMG with rounds specifically designed TO take out engine blocks(armor piercing incendiary???). 2 shots, truck was out of commission. Pretty badass.
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Old 08-25-2020, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Deceasedeye View Post
Funny, you hear the Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan stories about the development of the 357 and one of the reasons was to bust an engine block in order to stop a car and yet it's perfect for an encounter with a human being just a few feet away. Nobody is advocating anything here or suggesting any kind of ban or restrictions, just a logical look at the situation. I feel sure that if it was legal to own a machine gun for home defence that many would ( I know it is legal under certain circumstances so don't use that).
Some contex. When the 357mag was developed, it was around a 158gr lswc, then 158gr jsp. Yes, using those rds will almost gaurantee over penetration. Just switch to a jhp in the same wt changes everything.
The 38sp osnt a bad rd with a good bullet running +p. Feed it anything else, snub, pretty marginal with anything but headshots.
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Old 08-25-2020, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
I think the question should be; for what are you preparing?

If you believe that you will most likely encounter an adversary that is lightly clothed (or unclothed) standing square to you, with no obstacles or limbs between you and his/her COM, and will hold still for you, then sure, .38 or .380, or 9mm are all great calibers that will do the job.

If, however, you don't think those conditions are likely, or believe it's impossible to know what the conditions might be, then it might be wise to plan for worst-case and carry .45 or .357 instead.


We had a saying in flying, "plan for the worst and hope for the best". All the takeoff data is based on three engines (even though we had four). Landing data is based on thrust reversers not opening.

Carry whatever makes you comfortable, but think about all aspects of the scenario most likely to occur. People make a big stink about over penetration, but never consider that you will never be mugged in a crowd of people; you'll be mugged in the alley and there won't be anyone behind the perp, except maybe another perp.
Too much faith in the caliber myths Imo. Its all about the bullet. The 124gr 9mm +, 180gr 40, 230gr 45 all produce about the same energy. So what really matters is does the bullet expand to say 60cal & will it penetrate the magic 13-15". Does not matter in the least what size the bullet starts. I love the 45acp, but if my choice were 45 ball or 9mm 124gr hst +p, its 9mm all the way. Fwiw, the 357mag osnt any better than the service pistol calibers with tje wrong bullet.
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Old 08-25-2020, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Deceasedeye View Post
Why use a flame thrower to start a fire when a single match will do the job? I read a lot of posts that put down the 38 Special. IMHO a 2" magnum handgun for self defence is OVERKILL squared.
It's not a matter of overkill. Your choice is your choice. I never criticize anyone's choice in defensive weaponry even if I'd never carry whatever is being proposed.

But firing a lightweight J frame 2" .357 Magnum is not for the weak-kneed or faint of heart. The famous phrase, "shot a little, carried a lot" is correct but IMNSHO I kind of agree, they have ridiculously hot recoil and getting off shot number 2 takes way more practice than is pleasurable. I won't touch one and I'm one of those "recoil is your friend" kind of guys.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Deceasedeye View Post
Since a magnum round up close is capable of decapitating more than just your adversary wouldn't it be OVERKILL if you took out an innocent bystander as well?
Wouldn't that be true of pretty much any caliber?
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:25 AM
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Red heads really are overkill. Why There are so few good looking ones.
Back up the truck!! In the 6th grade, Jennifer Peterson was not only a red head, but the hottest girl in my class. And don't even get me started on Lucille Ball .... Hubba Hubba
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:30 AM
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I wonder why US battle ships don't go to war with nothing more than AK-47's?

More is way better than less.
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiranch View Post
Two suggestions.
1. If you think .357 Magnums are overkill then don't use them.
2. Don't stand behind somebody that is about to be shot by a gun loaded with .357 Magnums.
Nothing over penetrates like 158gr RNL in 38sp & bet a lot of old timers have their snubs loaded with them.
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:02 AM
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Back up the truck!! In the 6th grade, Jennifer Peterson was not only a red head, but the hottest girl in my class. And don't even get me started on Lucille Ball .... Hubba Hubba
I love redheads.
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:38 AM
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I had S&W model 60, Ruger's SP101, and Taurus 605, all in .357 magnum
with snub barrels. Found myself always carrying my 642-1 and leaving the
magnums home. Why? I could shoot better with the .38, so I sold all 3
magnums. I believe a good hit is better than a more powerful miss.
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Old 08-26-2020, 05:02 AM
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I choose not to carry a handgun anymore. However I did as an LEO, and as a civilian for 40 years. Department requirements were 38spl, an OK cartridge IMO. However, I settled on the standard hardball 45 acp when I was going to stick something inside my waste band.Just plain old military hardball ammo. None of this boutique $2.00 a shot stuff that comes in 20 round boxes.

I always figured that the US military did enough testing, across several branches, and that there were graveyards full of combatants from Vietnam to Korea to Germany that wished they had never seen a hardball 45 acp, and while the 9mm is the standard NATO round of today, the 45 acp is still used extinsively by the US military. just not as the standard issue sidearm
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson View Post
Amusingly enough, I am aware of the bullet he's referring to, it was not designed to pierce an engine block, cannot pierce an engine block, and is the origin of yet another enduring, comically nonsensical Urban Legend.

KTW Teflon-Coated "Cop-Killer" Bullets

The bullet he is referring to was a steel-core, hard brass semiwadcutter bullet with a green teflon coating to protect the rifling. The bullet was designed for and marketed towards Law Enforcement, but eventually the media did what they're famous for and ran sensationalist reports about how it was "Cop-Killer" ammunition, complete with outrageous claims that it's amazing armor-piercing capabilities were all thanks to the special coating on the outside of the bullet.

Eventually the bullet was taken off the market and the company who produced it went away, but the bullet had left it's mark upon the world by spawning the silly urban legend that teflon-coatings somehow make bullets armor-piercing, not to mention popularized the "Cop-Killer Bullets" buzzword as well as armor-piercing bullets being green-tipped in popular culture which eventually became reality as modern armor-piercing ammo is often marked with a green tip.
I remember the KTW cartridges, specifically designed to maximize penetration, lots of testing on automobile windshields, car doors, and other potential obstacles.

There were also Teflon-coated bullets for a while. Then there were the NyClad (nylon coated) bullets. These were primarily designed for indoor range use in law enforcement training with the actual goal being reduction of airborne lead and associated health risks. TV talking heads of the time breathlessly reported these as "cop killer" bullets because they were more capable of penetrating Kevlar body armor used by police.

Then there were the Winchester "Black Talons", one of the earlier truly high-performance expanding hollow points. Again, the TV reporters ganged up on reporting these as so overly destructive to human tissue that they should be banned. Winchester withdrew these products from the civilian market and limited sales to law enforcement only (I still have several boxes purchased over 25 years ago, highly collectible and now bringing $150 to $200-plus per box).

Back in the early 1970's I carried one cartridge box loaded with WW .357 Armor Piercing while on duty. 158-grain pointed bullet with hardened steel core and brass jacket. In my own testing these would zip through car bodies, windshields, and even concrete block like a hot knife through butter. Shooting into the engine compartment from the front the most damage I could cause was breaking a water pump housing (after punching through the grill and radiator). These would also punch through both front and rear panels of the Second Chance Kevlar body armor.

All of these ammunition types have been withdrawn from the civilian market, and most are prohibited for sale to the public.
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Old 08-26-2020, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Red heads really are overkill. Why There are so few good looking ones.
Because they tend to be crazy and crazy people aren't especially known for taking good care of themselves.

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Originally Posted by rubiranch View Post
I love redheads.
The problem with redheads is that they really are crazy, and not always the fun kind of crazy. Literally every natural redhead I've ever met was at least a little crazy. In fact, the last woman I ever dated was (you guessed it) a fiery redhead, and she was absolutely out of her mind. That was over eight years ago and I've been celibate ever since.

So yeah, definitely keep your wits about you when romantically involved with redheads, they seem like fun, wild and exciting, but once things start to get serious... Well, to tell you the truth I'd rather not think about it.

By the way, I say this as a man with a bit of a red in his hair.
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Old 08-26-2020, 06:28 PM
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As soon as you unholster your firearm, you are alone.
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Old 08-26-2020, 07:20 PM
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The problem with redheads is that they really are crazy, and not always the fun kind of crazy.
I married a natural redhead. Can you point me to a study that backs up your claim?
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Old 08-26-2020, 07:58 PM
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I married a natural redhead. Can you point me to a study that backs up your claim?
Ugh... Please don't be like that, okay? I'm just joking around, making light of my own negative experiences with redheads. It was never meant to be taken as a definitive statement nor was it meant to offend anyone.

I'm sure that there are redheads who are not in fact crazy and that your wife is a lovely lady.

So lighten up, okay? I know that things are really miserable right now with COVID-19, the riots, Presidential Election on the horizon, and all the politics that come with it, which is precisely why I'm trying to joke around and lighten the mood.
Frankly, I've been miserable as heck lately with just about everything going wrong for the past few days, and this is me trying not to cheer myself up and maybe a few other folks in the process.
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Rustyt1953 View Post
I married a natural redhead. Can you point me to a study that backs up your claim?
I have done a limited study. In a past life I dated a redhead and she was a psycho.
After a few dates I decided to leave her where I found her. Larry
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:22 PM
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Because they tend to be crazy and crazy people aren't especially known for taking good care of themselves.



The problem with redheads is that they really are crazy, and not always the fun kind of crazy. Literally every natural redhead I've ever met was at least a little crazy. In fact, the last woman I ever dated was (you guessed it) a fiery redhead, and she was absolutely out of her mind. That was over eight years ago and I've been celibate ever since.

So yeah, definitely keep your wits about you when romantically involved with redheads, they seem like fun, wild and exciting, but once things start to get serious... Well, to tell you the truth I'd rather not think about it.

By the way, I say this as a man with a bit of a red in his hair.
Deep down inside my ex was a redhead. LOL
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Old 08-27-2020, 12:06 AM
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Hey, guys! I'm a redhead. But I work and play in a male dominated world, got to be a little crazy to do that!

Sure a lot of guys think I'm more than that little bit crazy because I like guns, used to hunt, I drive a pickup, and own 2 foreign sporty cars. I'm just too independent for some guys.
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Old 08-27-2020, 05:44 PM
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Oh boy, now I've done it...

I guess I'll have to clarify exactly what behavior I'm referring to as insane, while keeping it as PG-13 as possible...

I once knew a redhead who told me the chilling tale of how she had attempted to commit suicide in a rather grisly fashion in a place where her "daddy" would find her body to get even with him for not spending enough time with her, but he came home early, caught her in the act and saved her life, which only made her angrier with him. THAT'S CRAZY! And sadly, it's not my only experience with a crazy redhead either!

So yeah, when I say "crazy" I don't mean they're quirky, kinky, a tomboy, or any other such figures of speech used to describe mildly unusual behavior. M'kay?!

Oh, and for the last time, I'm not saying that all redheads are like that either, so cool it and let's get back on-topic, shall we?

Sheesh, me and my big mouth...
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Old 08-27-2020, 06:07 PM
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So from one experience that you can document here, and a few others that you decline to elaborate on, you can affirmatively pronounce that many women of a certain hair color that you are associated with are crazy. Seems to me like thatís why we are we where are as a country now . . .

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Oh boy, now I've done it...

I guess I'll have to clarify exactly what behavior I'm referring to as insane, while keeping it as PG-13 as possible...

I once knew a redhead who told me the chilling tale of how she had attempted to commit suicide in a rather grisly fashion in a place where her "daddy" would find her body to get even with him for not spending enough time with her, but he came home early, caught her in the act and saved her life, which only made her angrier with him. THAT'S CRAZY! And sadly, it's not my only experience with a crazy redhead either!

So yeah, when I say "crazy" I don't mean they're quirky, kinky, a tomboy, or any other such figures of speech used to describe mildly unusual behavior. M'kay?!

Oh, and for the last time, I'm not saying that all redheads are like that either, so cool it and let's get back on-topic, shall we?

Sheesh, me and my big mouth...
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Old 08-27-2020, 06:41 PM
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I've seen threads get derailed before, but this is ridiculous...



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Old 08-27-2020, 07:39 PM
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So from one experience that you can document here, and a few others that you decline to elaborate on, you can affirmatively pronounce that many women of a certain hair color that you are associated with are crazy. Seems to me like thatís why we are we where are as a country now . . .
Nope, don't recall ever saying any such thing, but you are right about one thing... This is indeed where we are as a country, getting offended over off-handed comments, putting words in each other's mouths, and extreme black and white thinking.
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Old 08-27-2020, 07:58 PM
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In other words, you are mythtaken.
Best statement of the thread!

Perhaps we should stop looking for others to validate our choices.
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Old 08-27-2020, 07:58 PM
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Mas Ayoob on self-defense vs. mobs. Good read. Defense Against Mobs
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Old 08-27-2020, 08:08 PM
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I wrote:

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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
So from one experience that you can document here, and a few others that you decline to elaborate on, you can affirmatively pronounce that many women of a certain hair color that you are associated with are crazy. Seems to me like thatís why we are we where are as a country now . . .
You wrote:

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Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson View Post
Nope, don't recall ever saying any such thing,
This should help your memory. You had previously written:

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Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson View Post
Because they tend to be crazy and crazy people aren't especially known for taking good care of themselves.

The problem with redheads is that they really are crazy, and not always the fun kind of crazy. Literally every natural redhead I've ever met was at least a little crazy. In fact, the last woman I ever dated was (you guessed it) a fiery redhead, and she was absolutely out of her mind. That was over eight years ago and I've been celibate ever since.
As an aside, I completely understand your last sentence . . .
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:19 PM
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Can we please get this discussion back on the topic of redheads? I was just starting to learn a few things here.
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:37 PM
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Here is a little something I read once and saved about redheads.

We donít just like, we adore. We donít just eat, we devour. We donít just move, we dance. We donít just dislike, we detest. We donít just look, we observe. We donít just hear, we listen. We donít just cry, we ***. We donít just try, we do. We donít just yell, we scream. We donít just smile, we laugh. We donít just notice, we sense. We donít just breathe, we live.
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:54 PM
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Can we please get this discussion back on the topic of redheads? I was just starting to learn a few things here.
Is it true that the majority of redheads do not get gray hair?

(Gray hair, or not, is a major deciding factor as to what one should conceal carry,,, )
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Old 08-28-2020, 08:41 AM
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Can we please get this discussion back on the topic of redheads? I was just starting to learn a few things here.
Natural or induced?
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Old 08-28-2020, 10:06 AM
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Ever see John Wayne push and drag Maureen O'hara over a mile or so in The Quite Man? Only a redhead could have carried that off!
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:22 PM
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Ever see John Wayne push and drag Maureen O'hara over a mile or so in The Quite Man? Only a redhead could have carried that off!
They were without a doubt one the the best star combos ever to work the silver screen. McLintock is my favorite.

Do redheads get grey? sort of, the natural color fades.
Myself, my red is/was more an auburn and turned to a mousy lighter reddish brown. Not attractive at all. So now I color it back to what it was in my 20's and 30's. And, yes, I get a lot of compliments about it.

Back to the thread title Am I Alone?
I'm the only female here, probably the only redhead, and I shoot mainly 38spc. But then there's the other side that has guns that shoot every .32 cal., the non-conformist side of me.
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:44 PM
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Well, to add my 2 cents worth,

My everyday carry is a S&W 64-5, 4 inch barrel, .38 Special.
I have wondered why the factory ammo is so mild compared to what us hand loaders can add to the cartridge.
I have hand loaded 125 gr Hollow points to the same velocity as a 9mm. Some say you can't, but if you have the right powders, you can do so safely.
Now if some think the 9mm is anemic, they need to think again.
I can load +p rounds that can produce around 446 ft-lbs of energy. No, it's not a magnum, but I bet that 140 gr bullet will settle a bad guys hash very quickly.
So, your choice of .38 Special is perfect to me.

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Old 08-28-2020, 12:50 PM
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Are there guns better for conceal carry than a J frame Smith? Probably thatís why I bought a 13 shot Sig 365, but the J frames to me are a very classy and elegant little gun that will probably get the job done for a private citizen just fine and I like them a lot.

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Old 08-28-2020, 12:54 PM
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My son who is married to a redhead puts (women who own horses) in the crazy column!
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:05 PM
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The late great Bill Jordan said the 38 Special was the most powerful round the average man-i.e. most of us-could expect to master and if in armed encounters we could all channel Charlie Askins and Jim Cirillo we'd do OK.
No lightweight frames for me, steel only.
That said, choice of self defense caliber is very personal and IMHO range time and the Combat Mindset are what counts. The fact
Agree. I had to use my .38 three times during my 30 yr career and it did the job w/one exception: an armed robbery suspect shooting @ us while high on cocaine. It took several rounds of .38 to bring him down. In retirement I carry a J Frame w/+P or a .380 as dictated by mode of dress.
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:41 PM
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Nothing over penetrates like 158gr RNL in 38sp & bet a lot of old timers have their snubs loaded with them.
This "old timer" uses Winchester "Defend" 130 grain JHP .38 Special standard pressure ammo in my S&W Model 12-2.
Cheap 38 Special Ammo For Sale - 130 gr JHP - Winchester Train & Defend Ammunition - 20 Rounds
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:45 PM
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This "old timer" uses Winchester "Defend" 130 grain JHP .38 Special standard pressure ammo in my S&W Model 12-2.
Cheap 38 Special Ammo For Sale - 130 gr JHP - Winchester Train & Defend Ammunition - 20 Rounds
Everytime I've gone looking for those, ever since they came out, I could never find any. And of course, I follow the link and it's currently out of stock. Typical.

I can handle +P in my 642, but I'm always on the lookout for some good standard pressure defensive ammo. Right now, I have a couple boxes of Federal 125gr Nyclad HP (no longer made... ) and some 148gr WC.
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:50 PM
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Everytime I've gone looking for those, ever since they came out, I could never find any. And of course, I follow the link and it's currently out of stock. Typical.

I can handle +P in my 642, but I'm always on the lookout for some good standard pressure defensive ammo. Right now, I have a couple boxes of Federal 125gr Nyclad HP (no longer made... ) and some 148gr WC.
Yeah. Everything is pretty much out of stock, and I buy what I can when I find it. I even had to dig out several boxes of Federal 147 grain HydraShok 9mm to fill up the magazines of my new S&W SD9.
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:56 PM
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Yeah. Everything is pretty much out of stock, and I buy what I can when I find it. I even had to dig out several boxes of Federal 147 grain HydraShok 9mm to fill up the magazines of my new S&W SD9.
Yeah, I'm well-stocked on 147gr HST 9mm and SB-GDHP +P .38, buying boxes here and there over the last couple of years.
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Old 09-07-2020, 03:09 AM
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Yeah, I'm well-stocked on 147gr HST 9mm and SB-GDHP +P .38, buying boxes here and there over the last couple of years.
Watching the performance of the 147 grain HydraShoks on Lucky Gunner Labs, the best I can how for is tumbling. They have some 124 grain Gold Dots in standard and +P, but I'm not in the position to buy any right now.

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Old 09-07-2020, 04:53 PM
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Default Stay Alive!

In the end, I need to come out ALIVE in encounter.

As to what to carry.....different horses for different courses

If you don't know what " course" is coming up, perhaps you should be prepared for several.

So...... you carry only ONE weapon?

And, how about different ammo in same pistol? Have you considered doing that?
Lots of perps today have bulletproof armor? You have anything for THAT "course?"

Give a LOT of thought about how YOU can come out ALIVE, and preplan accordingly.
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