Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Concealed Carry & Self Defense All aspects of Concealed and Open Carry, Home and Self Defense.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-07-2020, 02:34 AM
Ziggy2525's Avatar
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 489
Liked 2,583 Times in 818 Posts
Default What would you do...

You and your wife are out for a walk. Itís getting dark. Youíre legally carrying a concealed pistol. A car pulls up beside you. You see what looks like an barrel start coming out the window, hear what sounds like a surpressed weapon firing, and feel pain in your legs and abdomen as youíre hit.

Do you draw your weapon and defend yourself?

What happens when you find out it was kids that just shot you with an AR-15 replica paintball gun?

Paintball shootings in Los Angeles on the rise and concerning police | Fox News
__________________
Vegan by proxy.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 09-07-2020, 02:37 AM
Jimmyjones's Avatar
Jimmyjones Jimmyjones is online now
SWCA Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder,CO
Posts: 1,142
Likes: 4,480
Liked 2,139 Times in 623 Posts
Default

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
__________________
SWCA #2817
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-07-2020, 02:51 AM
Scharfschuetzer's Avatar
Scharfschuetzer Scharfschuetzer is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Puget Sound Area
Posts: 304
Likes: 9
Liked 774 Times in 226 Posts
Default

I'm sure that whatever you decide, it'll be construed as wrong in LA.
__________________
Keep your powder dry.

Last edited by Scharfschuetzer; 09-07-2020 at 03:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-07-2020, 06:51 AM
Smoke's Avatar
Smoke Smoke is offline
US Veteran
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,763
Likes: 2,409
Liked 6,431 Times in 2,348 Posts
Default

Any number of people have been shot for pointing toy guns at people and for the most part the shootings have been ruled justified.

Ask Tamir Rice
__________________
He>I
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-07-2020, 07:35 AM
biku324's Avatar
biku324 biku324 is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NM
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 2,372
Liked 2,403 Times in 785 Posts
Default

You could ask the dead dude in Portland if bringing bear spray to a gunfight was a good idea. Or you could ask the guy who shot him for being sprayed, then got shot by police.

Last edited by biku324; 09-07-2020 at 07:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 09-07-2020, 07:58 AM
Ziggy2525's Avatar
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 489
Liked 2,583 Times in 818 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharfschuetzer View Post
I'm sure that whatever you decide, it'll be construed as wrong in LA.
You edited your post. I thought your first response was really good advise. I wish i would have quoted it before you changed it.
__________________
Vegan by proxy.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 09-07-2020, 08:03 AM
Donn's Avatar
Donn Donn is offline
US Veteran
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,931
Likes: 6
Liked 4,181 Times in 1,600 Posts
Default

A paintball gun that can penetrate a car door?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 09-07-2020, 08:09 AM
Ziggy2525's Avatar
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 489
Liked 2,583 Times in 818 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn View Post
A paintball gun that can penetrate a car door?
Lost me. Youíre walking on the sidewalk. The barrel of the paintball gun is being pointed out the window of the car as they shoot you on the sidewalk. Not sure where door penetration comes in.
__________________
Vegan by proxy.

Last edited by Ziggy2525; 09-07-2020 at 08:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 09-07-2020, 08:17 AM
Ziggy2525's Avatar
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 489
Liked 2,583 Times in 818 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biku324 View Post
You could ask the dead dude in Portland if bringing bear spray to a gunfight was a good idea. Or you could ask the guy who shot him for being sprayed, then got shot by police.
Youíre conflating what police are now saying was a targeted assassination during 100 days of continuous rioting with a random drive by shooting where the weapon ended up being a paintball gun.

In the Portland case, if you want to step back up the causal chain looking for a root cause, if the self appointed police commissioner along with the county attorney had put a stop to the civil unrest 100 days ago both men would be alive.
__________________
Vegan by proxy.

Last edited by Ziggy2525; 09-07-2020 at 08:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 09-07-2020, 08:18 AM
Carl Bill Carl Bill is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Likes: 35
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Default

With what's going on in todays society, protest, riots, unprovoked personal attacks on people, I'm afraid I would probably return fire. It's a shame that this is what the world has come to now. :-( But I'll have to say it would depend on the location I would be in. Big city or a small rural area, time of day, what has been happening lately in the area I was in. Many things to consider in a short period of time, makes this kind of decision difficult.

Last edited by Carl Bill; 09-07-2020 at 08:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 09-07-2020, 08:38 AM
Smoke's Avatar
Smoke Smoke is offline
US Veteran
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,763
Likes: 2,409
Liked 6,431 Times in 2,348 Posts
Default

I want to know who has a concealed weapon permit in Los Angeles
__________________
He>I
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:39 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,873
Likes: 4,332
Liked 4,453 Times in 2,192 Posts
Default

I think I would have used my sidearm to defend myself and my wife, but I do not live out there in LA-LA Land, where it is more of a Bizarro World.

At the end of the linked article:
Quote:
"Using a paintball gun to shoot is a felony," police added.
So shooting a paintball gun on a public street is a felony, odds are that you would have to defend your actions before a judge and possibly a jury, but I expect you would be exonerated. *

* This is not intended to be legal advice, I am not an attorney nor a spokesperson for an attorney.
__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 09-07-2020, 12:23 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,637
Likes: 2,514
Liked 3,759 Times in 2,276 Posts
Default

I've been shot with paintballs, never bullets, but I am sure there is a big dff in pain receptors. Besides, you shouldnt be walking in LA or any major city after dark.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 09-07-2020 at 07:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 09-07-2020, 12:38 PM
CA Escapee CA Escapee is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 540
Likes: 9
Liked 523 Times in 242 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
I want to know who has a concealed weapon permit in Los Angeles
Anyone who lives in Kern, San Bernardino, Ventura, Orange, San Diego, ...etc, County. Police and Sheriff's Deputies included.

Last edited by CA Escapee; 09-07-2020 at 12:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 09-07-2020, 01:33 PM
Scharfschuetzer's Avatar
Scharfschuetzer Scharfschuetzer is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Puget Sound Area
Posts: 304
Likes: 9
Liked 774 Times in 226 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy2525 View Post
You edited your post. I thought your first response was really good advise. I wish i would have quoted it before you changed it.
Thanks. I thought that it was bordering on legal advice, so I thought that I'd tone it down a bit. As a former LEO, I'm a bit gun shy to civil torts.
__________________
Keep your powder dry.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:42 PM
BB57's Avatar
BB57 BB57 is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 2,943
Likes: 1,764
Liked 7,222 Times in 2,031 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I've shot with paintballs, never bulleys, but I am sure there is a big dff in pain receptors.
I'm assuming you meant "bullets".

My dad was shot in the chest with a .32-20 out of a Model 92 Winchester. He didn't feel anything other than the impact, like getting hit with a hammer. He didn't even feel pain an hour or so later when a doctor was probing the wound. The pain came later during the healing process.

Now...I know that's not typical, but the point here is that the shock and trauma from a gun shot wound can vary a lot. Add in a healthy shot of adrenaline and it's very likely that you or I might not feel any immediate pain from a gun shot either.

I think the scenario the OP describes is plausible, and with the prevalence of suppressors on the rise, I wouldn't rule out someone shooting bullets and automatically assume paintballs. I'm also a pilot and losing an eye to a paintball traveling at 175 fps is not just "serious bodily injury" but also potentially career ending.

In short, if someone starts shooting at me and my wife, I'll return fire while moving my wife and I toward cover.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 09-07-2020, 05:34 PM
ISCS Yoda's Avatar
ISCS Yoda ISCS Yoda is offline
US Veteran
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 6,295
Likes: 1,593
Liked 8,425 Times in 3,142 Posts
Default

Without any political commentary, I don't care whether you're in LA, NYC, Dallas, or Podunk Holler. I didn't see the original post before it was amended. Still, no political issues follow.

Assumption 1 for this post. You are legally carrying a handgun.

Assumption 2 for this post. You literally see a handgun being pointed at you, regardless if it's out of a car window or a doorway; whatever.

Assumption 3 for this post. The handgun you saw fires and you are hit and you know that you are hit. (This is actually almost irrelevant!)

Firing a weapon in self defense is always justified. It is justified in defense of third parties as well. Never mind the twisting of justification by the political motivations of the local DA, Sheriff, or Police Chief. Keep it simple for this post.

YES, you pull your weapon. Legal. Period. A lawful "movement" under the circumstances.

YES, you are justified in firing your weapon. Legal. A lawful "movement" or action permissible under the circumstances.

The law does not require you to make a determination if the bone head threatening you is using a toy or a real weapon. If you feel there is a threat of death or serious bodily harm you are justified in pulling your self defense tool and then using it.

It's really quite that simple. Anything else is superfluous commentary.

And being hit by rubber bullets or paintball pellets is irrelevant. Your immediate perception rules.

And yes, that's my free legal opinion and I have a law license hanging on my wall. I just waved at it to see if it was awake. It is.
__________________
Come and take it!!

Last edited by ISCS Yoda; 09-07-2020 at 05:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-07-2020, 06:21 PM
Execpro Execpro is online now
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 420
Likes: 2,333
Liked 366 Times in 197 Posts
Default

The OP poses a good scenario.
I stopped being out and about after sunset (about 5 years ago) unless it is an ABSOLUTE necessity. Living on the outskirts of a city where there is a shooting almost every day within a 2-8 mile radius of me,it seems like a good idea.

I would think that the reaction time between realizing you are about to be/or are shot by whatever weapon would negate any meaningful response by you. In a drive by shooting, the car is moving and after the shooter fires,the car speeds away leaving you with no time for any action even if your able. JMO
I believe that my response would be get to the ground as fast as possible (intentional or not). This would provide a smaller target if the shooter continues to shoot.

Be SAFE out there, it's a crazy time we live in!

Last edited by Execpro; 09-07-2020 at 10:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-07-2020, 06:24 PM
Lou_the_welder's Avatar
Lou_the_welder Lou_the_welder is online now
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Los Angeles,California
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 2,649
Liked 2,520 Times in 880 Posts
Default

When I walk around here, I carry spray.
As a resident of LA county, I cannot hold a CCW. Probably good for them.
We have had bouts of dumbasses riding around in cars with paintball guns. Most homes have "rings" that record and most everyone has a cellphone that records video. The homes in front of me have surveillance.
Some of them have been caught.

Would I shoot them for getting hit with a paintball. No. That seems excessive. I'd get my phone out and record the plates.
Taking a life is more than what it's worth.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 09-07-2020, 07:26 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,637
Likes: 2,514
Liked 3,759 Times in 2,276 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
I want to know who has a concealed weapon permit in Los Angeles
As noted, my ccw is good in all the leftist cities. I generally choose not to go to any of them after dark. Though I routinely take my dog for a walk at night in my city but it isnt LA or Oakland or SanBernadino. Yes I generally ccw, but its for a dog or coyote encounter if my dog cant handle it. I do not worry about heing attacked by people in most places. The ccw is a just in case thing like a seatbelt.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 09-07-2020 at 07:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 09-07-2020, 07:27 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,637
Likes: 2,514
Liked 3,759 Times in 2,276 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB57 View Post
I'm assuming you meant "bullets".

My dad was shot in the chest with a .32-20 out of a Model 92 Winchester. He didn't feel anything other than the impact, like getting hit with a hammer. He didn't even feel pain an hour or so later when a doctor was probing the wound. The pain came later during the healing process.

Now...I know that's not typical, but the point here is that the shock and trauma from a gun shot wound can vary a lot. Add in a healthy shot of adrenaline and it's very likely that you or I might not feel any immediate pain from a gun shot either.

I think the scenario the OP describes is plausible, and with the prevalence of suppressors on the rise, I wouldn't rule out someone shooting bullets and automatically assume paintballs. I'm also a pilot and losing an eye to a paintball traveling at 175 fps is not just "serious bodily injury" but also potentially career ending.

In short, if someone starts shooting at me and my wife, I'll return fire while moving my wife and I toward cover.
Yeah auto correct sucks.
Unless some dork froze the panballs, they sting a bit, nothing like a hammer blow though. If shot with a paintball I wont be returnimg fire.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 09-08-2020, 04:08 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
US Veteran
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,626
Likes: 2,855
Liked 16,786 Times in 6,203 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I've been shot with paintballs, never bullets, but I am sure there is a big dff in pain receptors. Besides, you shouldnt be walking in LA or any major city after dark.
In the USA it should be a reasonable thought that you can walk on a public street, even at night, without fear of being shot. Alas, this is not true anymore.


In CA an assault must meet three criteria in order to legally use deadly force to counter it:
  1. The assault must be intentional.
  2. The assault must be imminent.
  3. The force used to counter it must be necessary.

If someone was on the street and accidentally fired a paintball gun and it hit you, it's no intentional. If they shoulder the gun and fire, then it's intentional.

If you're being hit by a projectile fired from a gun, the assault is past imminent and meets the second criteria.

The question comes down to, did you have to use deadly force to counter the assault? If you believe the gun is real and another person in a similar situation, who has average skill and awareness, also believes it was real, then deadly force is justified.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-08-2020, 05:15 PM
Smoke's Avatar
Smoke Smoke is offline
US Veteran
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,763
Likes: 2,409
Liked 6,431 Times in 2,348 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I've been shot with paintballs, never bullets, but I am sure there is a big dff in pain receptors. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Unless some dork froze the panballs, they sting a bit, nothing like a hammer blow though. If shot with a paintball I wont be returnimg fire.
MY OPINION

In the totality of circumstances I don't think my (or anyone's) mind would work fast enough to think "Those are paintballs."

MY EXPERIENCE

1. I'm not walking around LA after dark. I used to when I was younger but I'm older and wiser now. So I'm not there anyway.

2. You come rolling up and stop right next to me and I'm going to assume it's an ambush and I'm at least going to begin to respond in kind. At the very least I'm going to be reaching for my gun. Add to that that I'm seeing (what looks like) a gun poke out the window. I don't think my brain is going to catch up fast enough to stop me from shooting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Besides, you shouldnt be walking in LA or any major city after dark.
I don't often agree with Fred but (With the exception of Scripture) truer words have never been spoken
__________________
He>I

Last edited by Smoke; 09-08-2020 at 05:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 09-08-2020, 09:29 PM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: bootheel of Missouri
Posts: 13,193
Likes: 5,286
Liked 20,930 Times in 6,665 Posts
Default

Based on the post below, you do not have or use autocorrect . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Yeah auto correct sucks.
Unless some dork froze the panballs, they sting a bit, nothing like a hammer blow though. If shot with a paintball I wont be returnimg fire.
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 09-09-2020, 04:09 PM
Inusuit's Avatar
Inusuit Inusuit is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SE Wyoming
Posts: 2,050
Likes: 3,352
Liked 2,882 Times in 1,061 Posts
Default

Had a similar encounter years ago. Car full of kids with a realistic looking squirt gun shot it through my open driver's side window. Frankly, they were gone before I could react. Took awhile for my heart rate to go down even though it was almost immediately apparent there was no lethal threat.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 09-09-2020, 04:23 PM
biku324's Avatar
biku324 biku324 is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NM
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 2,372
Liked 2,403 Times in 785 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy2525 View Post
Youíre conflating what police are now saying was a targeted assassination during 100 days of continuous rioting with a random drive by shooting where the weapon ended up being a paintball gun.
Not at all. Someone using nonlethal force (bear spray) in Portland got turned off immediately by someone using lethal force. The lethal force user was charged with 2nd degree murder and got turned off by arresting officers near his home.

A marginal shooting will very likely get you charged; maybe you'll eventually get acquitted, maybe not. Your defense will cost about what a nice used Cessna 172 would. Maybe you'll prevail in the later wrongful death suit, but likely not. That response will cost you even more.

Not shooting people is better, both for police and civilians.

Last edited by biku324; 09-09-2020 at 04:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 09-11-2020, 06:44 PM
flagman1776's Avatar
flagman1776 flagman1776 is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 2,004
Likes: 2,517
Liked 1,657 Times in 696 Posts
Default

Let me walk through this... you and yours have been fired upon and hit. In the drive by scenario, it's unlikely you'll have a shot... they are likely gone. If they are stationary, and you are still under the muzzle... your best move would be to cover first. Secondarily drawing as you can. You have no opportunity to evaluate the injuries, if any. Paint ball or live ammo? As soon as possible, you should investigate the wounds and render first aid.
__________________
NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-12-2020, 12:34 AM
Jessie's Avatar
Jessie Jessie is online now
US Veteran
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,511
Likes: 8,290
Liked 12,022 Times in 4,254 Posts
Default

It’s definitely something you may need to consider but anybody who would shoot anything at anybody these days are not thinking clearly.
I couldn’t say what I would do until it happened.
__________________
ďLook life in its iron faceĒ
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-12-2020, 10:27 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,873
Likes: 4,332
Liked 4,453 Times in 2,192 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyjones View Post
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
This is truly the best answer.
__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-12-2020, 10:58 AM
KidK KidK is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6
Likes: 26
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
I want to know who has a concealed weapon permit in Los Angeles
Just a bit South of Los Angeles, it is my understanding that over 20,000 Orange County residents have permits.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-12-2020, 11:02 AM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PNW
Posts: 212
Likes: 42
Liked 202 Times in 106 Posts
Default Yup!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
Without any political commentary, I don't care whether you're in LA, NYC, Dallas, or Podunk Holler. I didn't see the original post before it was amended. Still, no political issues follow.

Assumption 1 for this post. You are legally carrying a handgun.

Assumption 2 for this post. You literally see a handgun being pointed at you, regardless if it's out of a car window or a doorway; whatever.

Assumption 3 for this post. The handgun you saw fires and you are hit and you know that you are hit. (This is actually almost irrelevant!)

Firing a weapon in self defense is always justified. It is justified in defense of third parties as well. Never mind the twisting of justification by the political motivations of the local DA, Sheriff, or Police Chief. Keep it simple for this post.

YES, you pull your weapon. Legal. Period. A lawful "movement" under the circumstances.

YES, you are justified in firing your weapon. Legal. A lawful "movement" or action permissible under the circumstances.

The law does not require you to make a determination if the bone head threatening you is using a toy or a real weapon. If you feel there is a threat of death or serious bodily harm you are justified in pulling your self defense tool and then using it.

It's really quite that simple. Anything else is superfluous commentary.

And being hit by rubber bullets or paintball pellets is irrelevant. Your immediate perception rules.

And yes, that's my free legal opinion and I have a law license hanging on my wall. I just waved at it to see if it was awake. It is.
And:

In some jurisdictions anything that discharges a projectile using compressed air or spring pressure is considered a "firearm"!

Heard it from a friend!

P.S. Orange County, CA: A bicyclist was shot by joyriding teens with a paintball gun. The bicyclist lost control and fell off hitting his head and died. I don't recall the exact disposition of the case but I recall it didn't end well for the perpetrators.

Smiles,

Last edited by jjfitch; 09-12-2020 at 11:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-12-2020, 11:19 AM
Protected One's Avatar
Protected One Protected One is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,320
Likes: 3,003
Liked 4,358 Times in 1,642 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy2525 View Post
You and your wife are out for a walk. Itís getting dark. Youíre legally carrying a concealed pistol. A car pulls up beside you. You see what looks like an barrel start coming out the window, hear what sounds like a surpressed weapon firing, and feel pain in your legs and abdomen as youíre hit.

Do you draw your weapon and defend yourself?

What happens when you find out it was kids that just shot you with an AR-15 replica paintball gun?

Paintball shootings in Los Angeles on the rise and concerning police | Fox News
What is the point in 'carrying' if you aren't going to use it to defend yourself in a situation that an reasonable person would view as an attack?
__________________
Stay protected my friends.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #33  
Old 09-12-2020, 11:24 AM
armorer951's Avatar
armorer951 armorer951 is online now
SWCA Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Evansville, Indiana USA
Posts: 4,974
Likes: 285
Liked 7,291 Times in 2,494 Posts
Default

A key component part of common sense is the determination and mitigation of risk. In this scenario, I would have stayed home.

Walk after dark? Consider a treadmill if that's your only option.
__________________
Ret LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Last edited by armorer951; 09-12-2020 at 07:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #34  
Old 09-12-2020, 03:40 PM
REM 3200's Avatar
REM 3200 REM 3200 is online now
US Veteran
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posts: 1,940
Likes: 8,068
Liked 2,958 Times in 1,057 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
The ccw is a just in case thing like a seatbelt.

Isn't that the reason that most people carry? "Just in case."
That is the only reason I go through the dress around the gun thing.
If there was no possibility of anyone threating me or my wife,
why would I need to carry?
__________________
CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-12-2020, 04:35 PM
Oracle's Avatar
Oracle Oracle is offline
US Veteran
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Selah, Washington
Posts: 411
Likes: 1,479
Liked 587 Times in 247 Posts
Default

In my opinion responding to being shot by returning fire to protect your and your wife's lives isn't unreasonable.

Expecting the attacked person to instantly evaluate whether they have been shot by kids with a paint ball or a chunk of lead is unreasonable.

Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
__________________
U.S. Coast Guard, retired CPO
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #36  
Old 09-12-2020, 08:33 PM
JDinAZ's Avatar
JDinAZ JDinAZ is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: AZ
Posts: 186
Likes: 32
Liked 226 Times in 80 Posts
Default

draw while hitting the deck
(greatly reduces available area for return fire / most would assume you are done for when you drop, little do they know you train to fire from that position)

empty carry piece into perp without missing a beat

reload

stand up

dust off

call for the meat wagon
__________________
R/S
J.D.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-15-2020, 01:39 AM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,637
Likes: 2,514
Liked 3,759 Times in 2,276 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
In the USA it should be a reasonable thought that you can walk on a public street, even at night, without fear of being shot. Alas, this is not true anymore.


In CA an assault must meet three criteria in order to legally use deadly force to counter it:
  1. The assault must be intentional.
  2. The assault must be imminent.
  3. The force used to counter it must be necessary.

If someone was on the street and accidentally fired a paintball gun and it hit you, it's no intentional. If they shoulder the gun and fire, then it's intentional.

If you're being hit by a projectile fired from a gun, the assault is past imminent and meets the second criteria.

The question comes down to, did you have to use deadly force to counter the assault? If you believe the gun is real and another person in a similar situation, who has average skill and awareness, also believes it was real, then deadly force is justified.
Well sure but reality says you shouldnt walk in NYC or Chicago or Oakand or LA at night. Again, I foubt I start putting rounds on a person shooting me with paintballs. Then again, that exact scenario hasnt happened.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-15-2020, 01:42 AM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,637
Likes: 2,514
Liked 3,759 Times in 2,276 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by REM 3200 View Post
Isn't that the reason that most people carry? "Just in case."
That is the only reason I go through the dress around the gun thing.
If there was no possibility of anyone threating me or my wife,
why would I need to carry?
Wel I agree but imo, at least 50% of those ccw dont practice & have almost zero skill. So they carry it like a rabbits foot, to feel comfy. I dont feel I need a gun, I just like being prepared. Yet I train & practice I have taken a trauma course, carry a fire ext in my car & a med kit. Being prepared is just incase.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 09-15-2020 at 07:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #39  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:22 PM
Fastbolt's Avatar
Fastbolt Fastbolt is offline
Member
What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do... What would you do...  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 4,368
Likes: 797
Liked 5,710 Times in 1,935 Posts
Default

If we're talking about Los Angeles city and county (because of the article) ...

If the LASD sheriff holds true to his comments about a 400% increase in CCW licenses for 2020, there may be a whopping 1000 licenses issued this year. In a county of more than 10,000,000 people (not including visitors).

I haven't kept up on the LAPD issuance of CCW's, but I'd not be surprised to learn it numbers this year in the low or middle double digits.

That said, unless someone is visiting from out-of-town or county, and has had a CCW license issued by from another county/city, the odds of someone in Los Angeles County or city being lawfully armed with a concealed handgun ... and being in the wrong place at the wrong time to be selected as a paintball shooting victim by some idiot going a drive-by paintball shooting ... probably makes this a moot (or very low incidence) question.

Now, shooting paint balls at an (unknowingly) armed criminal on the street? Uh huh. A statistical blip in the reported crimes.

Shooting at an off-duty cop? If the off-duty cop thinks he/she's been shot by bullets, and doesn't realize it's a paint ball shooting? Paperwork will likely ensue, no matter which way it goes.

Who goes walking in much of Los Angeles after dark, anyway?
__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)