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  #101  
Old 09-21-2020, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Marshal tom View Post
On at least two occasions while I was the Marshal in town, I removed rifles and shotguns from unlocked vehicles with the windows down. One was parked right in front of town hall and the other at a local restaurant. I took the guns to the PD and waited for the dummy's to come and report their guns stolen.
And around here you would have been out of a job the first time and lucky if not charged with theft. You don't take anything out of anybody's outfit here no matter who you are.
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  #102  
Old 09-21-2020, 04:27 PM
smoothshooter smoothshooter is offline
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And if I put double-cylinder deadbolt locks on the solid steel doors of my house and keep my firearms under lock and key, but some punk breaks my door down and steels my firearms, I am somehow to blame?

I keep a safe bolted into the floor of my truck in order to secure my handgun while I must enter places where firearms are not allowed, and the truck is kept locked up. If some bozo breaks in, or steals me truck, and my handgun is later used in a crime, I am somehow to blame?

I should be charged with a crime because my stolen property was used to commit a crime? I should be open to lawsuits because some ******-bag doper thief stole from me, and my stuff was later used in another crime?

Slippery slope.

Reasonable and prudent. Reasonable and prudent. Reasonable and prudent. It seems to bear repeating.
You make a more than reasonable effort to prevent gun thefts.
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  #103  
Old 09-21-2020, 05:29 PM
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And around here you would have been out of a job the first time and lucky if not charged with theft. You don't take anything out of anybody's outfit here no matter who you are.
My sentiments exactly
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  #104  
Old 09-21-2020, 05:43 PM
Mike 139 Mike 139 is offline
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Common sense plays a big part in prevention. A Console Vault with an upgraded lid and Abloy lock goes a long way to making sure what you put in there is still there when you return to your vehicle...Most, not all, are looking for an unlocked vehicle with a gun/money in the Console/glove box/ under the seat. Quick in and out...Ford Trucks are a popular target as the ďalarmĒ system is the horn and the wiring is in front, accessible thru the Grill...Door locks are plastic and easily popped open with a screwdriver....

If they really want your vehicle, theyíll come with a Flatbed and take the whole Truck....

Try to always Park in a well-lit, high traffic area, always lock it,
and as mentioned by several, NO Stickers....You donít want people following you/Family member to see where youíre going, and than coming back later....3 right turns in succession will determine if youíre being followed or not.

Iíve removed the PBA decal and emblem as I donít want my Family targeted in a drive-by and there have been many documented cases of Officerís Houses being the target of drive-by shootings and Firebombing of marked Units in their driveways.....Be smart, Be Safe.Stay alert,...as already posted, act in a reasonable and prudent manner and cover your 6.

The Lockerídown Console Vault ,12 ga. Steel, is available in the Exxtreme version, lid is 10 gauge steel plate welded on...Robert Newell is the Owner...Good People.

Last edited by Mike 139; 09-21-2020 at 10:15 PM.
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  #105  
Old 09-21-2020, 05:47 PM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
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Thatís stealing. I would have filed a criminal complaint with the local prosecutor. Failing that, since it involved stealing firearms under color of law, I would have met with the feds . . .

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Originally Posted by Marshal tom View Post
On at least two occasions while I was the Marshal in town, I removed rifles and shotguns from unlocked vehicles with the windows down. One was parked right in front of town hall and the other at a local restaurant. I took the guns to the PD and waited for the dummy's to come and report their guns stolen.
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  #106  
Old 09-21-2020, 07:34 PM
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Thatís stealing. I would have filed a criminal complaint with the local prosecutor. Failing that, since it involved stealing firearms under color of law, I would have met with the feds . . .
But who arrests the Town Marshall? State Police? County Sheriff? Who would have jurisdiction.
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  #107  
Old 09-21-2020, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike 139 View Post
Common sense plays a big part in prevention. A Console Vault with an upgraded lid and Abloy lock goes a long way to making sure what you put in there is still there when you return to your vehicle...Most, not all, are looking for an unlocked vehicle with a gun/money in the Console/glove box/ under the seat. Quick in and out...Ford Trucks are a popular target as the ďalarmĒ system is the horn and the wiring is in front, accessible thru the Grill...Door locks are plastic and easily popped open with a screwdriver....

If they really want your vehicle, theyíll come with a Flatbed and take the whole Truck....

Try to always Park in a well-lit, high traffic area, always lock it,
and as mentioned by several, NO Stickers....You donít want people following you/Family member to see where youíre going, and than coming back later....3 right turns in succession will determine if youíre being followed or not.

Iíve removed the PBA decal and emblem as I donít want my Family targeted in a drive-by and there have been many documented cases of Officerís Houses being the target of drive-by shootings and Firebombing of marked Units in their driveways.....Be smart, Be Safe.Stay alert,...as already posted, act in a reasonable and prudent manner and cover your 6.
tell me about the Console Vault upgraded lid.

thanks
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  #108  
Old 09-21-2020, 10:14 PM
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But who arrests the Town Marshall? State Police? County Sheriff? Who would have jurisdiction.
In Colorado we do not have State Police. We have a Colorado Department of Public Safety, one branch of which is the Colorado State Patrol, but the State Patrol function is largely limited to traffic enforcement. While State Patrol officers are certified peace officers with statewide jurisdiction, they have very limited jurisdictional authority in criminal matters.

Oddly enough, in Colorado the senior law enforcement officer of each county is the coroner, an elected position requiring no specific level of education, training, or certification. Many county coroners are funeral directors, and I knew one who was a pharmacist while also serving as county coroner.

Again oddly enough, in Colorado any citizen who observes a criminal act committed in his presence is authorized to make an arrest, using such force as is reasonably necessary to subdue the perpetrator and deliver to the sheriff of the county. (Title II, Colorado Revised Statutes, Code of Criminal Procedures).

No, I am not recommending any course of action for anyone. Just commenting on the statutes of my home state.
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  #109  
Old 09-22-2020, 07:40 AM
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In Montana I have never heard of a "Marshal" other than US Marshals. You have your city police, your Sheriff and his deputies, then the Highway patrol. The supreme law is the county sheriff. The chief of police could easily be arrested by the sheriff. The police could hand the sheriff a citation, but, they could not arrest him without a warrant from a district judge. The county attorney can't have the sheriff arrested with out a district judge order. Neither can a Highway patrolmen.

But, a sheriff around here wouldn't dream taking a gun out of some ones car and hoping to get reelected and a judge would be likely sign off on his arrest. It would be viewed as theft. Here my car is legally regarded as an extension of my domicile and no LEO can enter it or search it without a warrant or seeing something illegal in plain sight. Just like my house. No warrant stay out even if the door is wide open. Here I could have 10 AR 15, with hand grips, flash suppressors, with loaded and inserted magazines, a couple pistols on the seat, under the seat, in the glove compartment and be 100 percent legal with no permit needed. A LEO could look in the window, but even if it was wide open he could not stick his hand inside.

Now, in say Missoula country the sheriff might getaway with taking a gun out of a truck and still get reelected as Missoula is our Berkley. But, if the owner went to the county attorney and he didn't go to the district judge you could call the state Attorney General and insist. As it is plainly an out and out theft, if you screamed load enough, the sheriff would get charged. Probably get a spanking and in Missoula reelected. Most of the other counties, not a chance.

A deputy does not have the protections of a Sheriff.

Sheriffs, county commissioners, County attorneys the Governor and state legislators (while the state government is in session) in Montana are difficult to arrest.
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  #110  
Old 09-22-2020, 07:46 AM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
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But who arrests the Town Marshall? State Police? County Sheriff? Who would have jurisdiction.
Any of the above. If a federal charge, the US Marshal Service would be happy to oblige. I don't know anything about Montana law, but it's generally not a difficult process in Missouri . . .
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  #111  
Old 09-22-2020, 07:48 AM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
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Sheriffs, county commissioners, County attorneys the Governor and state legislators (while the state government is in session) in Montana are difficult to arrest.
Illinois could tell you how easy the Governor is to arrest, they do it all the time. In Missouri, by state statue, the County Coroner is the one who arrests the Sheriff, which we've done more than once down here in the bootheel . . .
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  #112  
Old 09-22-2020, 08:45 AM
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Only problem you might run into in Montana is if the sheriff did it. Hard to for a sheriff to actually get arrested. Charged not so much. The sheriff or the big county 100 miles east of here got charged with domestic abuse and convicted. He was never actually arrested. He remained the sheriff until the next election though he could not carry a gun.

About 20 years ago or so, the sheriff of the county my late wife grew up in lost his drivers license for DUIs in other places. He rode a horse. He remained the sheriff until the state finally removed him for abusing his prisoners.

About 8 years ago a Sheriff from a county to the east came here for a disposition in a murder case. While here he got drunk in a main street bar and tossed a out of town biker threw a window. He left the bar and went to his motel. The local LEOs went and issued him a summons. Could not arrest him. Fun read in the paper. He remained the sheriff of his county. Might still be there.

When I was much younger the sheriff of our county was picked up in a gambling raid on a house of ill repute in a much bigger county. He said he didn't see any of that going on. He was kept getting elected because we didn't want a sheriff that saw that kind of stuff going on as we had our own house of ill repute on main street. He remained the sheriff until he decided to retire. The current sheriff of that county (the one who replaced the retiring sheriff) has been there 34 years now. He did make the girls house move out of town a few miles after he took office and it finally closed in the 90s.

The sheriff of a Montana county pretty sets the tone for local law and order. If the citizens want more or less they elect a like minded sheriff.

Last edited by steelslaver; 09-22-2020 at 08:47 AM.
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  #113  
Old 09-22-2020, 08:56 AM
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We used to be into car stereos. My brother had a big "Alpine" logo across his windshield. I once told him that was like saying "Rob Me". He didn't put one on his next vehicle. He then had a purple neon license plate around his tag. I pointed out you could spot him half a mile away, easy for a cop to pick you out when running radar. He quit using it after that.

I don't put stickers on vehicles. It definitely advertises a lot to the trained eye. Have my college alum tag on my car and a sticker on my truck, that is it.

Personally, I like to be average joe, blend in. I don't like to stand out in anyway in public. No facebook, don't want my pics on the internet. Maybe I am paranoid, maybe I am prudent. My handles are not my name etc.

I do however keep a backup gun in each vehicle. Including my 2 motorcycles. Out of sight out of mind though and always lock the doors. At home they are all locked in garages. The backup guns are generally lower priced items though so I haven't lost too much if they are stolen. One primary reason for the backup is that case where you jump in the vehicle and head to town and then realize you forgot to strap on. I just retrieve the backup and all is well. All of my serial numbers are logged with a description and value on a spreadsheet in multiple locations.

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  #114  
Old 09-22-2020, 09:26 AM
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No doubt just about anything can be stolen if the perp is determined enough and they have enough time. The point is to make it difficult for them. Make it so they want to move on to another target. Don't look like a target, don't let people know you may have things worth targeting so word doesn't get around and make it difficult and they are not going to waste their time trying to see if you are worth it.

Those cases where they broke into a home and stole a safe or used a chainsaw to break in, they knew there was something worth the time. Don't ask don't tell is my policy.

Live security cams, the doorbells cams where you can talk to them and the like are wonderful deterrents and gives you or a LEO means to catch them in the act or after the fact.

Rosewood

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  #115  
Old 09-22-2020, 10:31 AM
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We have crews that work out of town during the week and come home on weekends. They typically meet here at the shop and thrown their things into the trucks and head out.

Well last week one brainiac left his car in the lot, with the keys in it and a handgun shoved down beside the seat. Another guy left his truck parked with the keys in it. Sunday night we had some unwanted visitors.

The boys returned from their week's work to find out two of them didn't have a vehicle anymore. One guy (gun guy) is fairly new, but the other says, "I've been leaving my keys in my car for 11 years!, and nobody ever bothered it."

Well, he can't say that now. We have security cameras, but they kept their faces hidden pretty well. We'll be clearing a spot for them inside our fenced lot, and adding more cameras. But what's done is done. Another 9mm on the street.

I have an old 22 rifle that still has a worn spot on the barrel from all those years it rode around in a gun rack of my truck. But that was in the 70's/early 80's. Not now.
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  #116  
Old 09-22-2020, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
In Montana I have never heard of a "Marshal" other than US Marshals. You have your city police, your Sheriff and his deputies, then the Highway patrol. The supreme law is the county sheriff. The chief of police could easily be arrested by the sheriff. The police could hand the sheriff a citation, but, they could not arrest him without a warrant from a district judge. The county attorney can't have the sheriff arrested with out a district judge order. Neither can a Highway patrolmen.

But, a sheriff around here wouldn't dream taking a gun out of some ones car and hoping to get reelected and a judge would be likely sign off on his arrest. It would be viewed as theft. Here my car is legally regarded as an extension of my domicile and no LEO can enter it or search it without a warrant or seeing something illegal in plain sight. Just like my house. No warrant stay out even if the door is wide open. Here I could have 10 AR 15, with hand grips, flash suppressors, with loaded and inserted magazines, a couple pistols on the seat, under the seat, in the glove compartment and be 100 percent legal with no permit needed. A LEO could look in the window, but even if it was wide open he could not stick his hand inside.

Now, in say Missoula country the sheriff might getaway with taking a gun out of a truck and still get reelected as Missoula is our Berkley. But, if the owner went to the county attorney and he didn't go to the district judge you could call the state Attorney General and insist. As it is plainly an out and out theft, if you screamed load enough, the sheriff would get charged. Probably get a spanking and in Missoula reelected. Most of the other counties, not a chance.

A deputy does not have the protections of a Sheriff.

Sheriffs, county commissioners, County attorneys the Governor and state legislators (while the state government is in session) in Montana are difficult to arrest.
The various public offices in counties and cities are established by the Colorado Constitution. The office of "marshal" is synonymous with "police chief". Quite a few smaller towns retain the title "marshal", I think as a connection to history.

Some larger cities have both a police department and a marshal's office, with the marshals generally assigned the duties of serving the process of the municipal courts (warrants, writs, subpoenas, etc) and court security.
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  #117  
Old 09-22-2020, 11:22 AM
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Some larger cities have both a police department and a marshal's office, with the marshals generally assigned the duties of serving the process of the municipal courts (warrants, writs, subpoenas, etc) and court security.
That's how it was in Los Angeles, CA, before the LA county marshals were absorbed into the Sheriff's Office.
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  #118  
Old 09-22-2020, 11:40 AM
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I used to commute to DC every other week and took the train from Rocky Mount to Alexandria VA. My truck would usually be there 2-3 nights.

To give that some context, Rocky Mount straddles a county line and one of those counties is really poor. Rocky Mount itself has the highest poverty rate of any metropolitan area in NC and the murder rate hovers around 45 per 100,000 - twice that of DC and the crime rate overall is comparable.

I commuted that way for 7 years and never had a break in. A large part of that is that I kept my vehicle interior like I'd just picked it up from a rental car agency.

The first thing to remember is smash and grab thieves are opportunistic. If they see something in a vehicle worth stealing they'll break in and grab it. Conversely, if there is nothing visible to indicate there is anything worth stealing, they won't waste their time, they'll just find a more lucrative target.

That said, I have a console safe in my truck for the purpose of putting my concealed carry handgun when I can't take it into a gun free zone.

If someone does break in, there's no reason to make it easy for them, and since time is a factor, they usually won't bother. For example we had a brief rash of cars being broken into in our neighborhood. Rather than risk someone popping a window and doing $2K or so damage to the window and door, I elected to just leave my car unlocked. Both my truck and my wife's car were "broken" into, but as they were unlocked there was no damage. We noticed because the doors were left open and they had obviously looked in the glove box, console etc, leaving them all open. They obviously saw the console safe, but made no effort to open it beyond (I assume) checking to see if it was locked.

The console safe cost me $275 and took about 30 minutes to install, but it's cheap insurance.






The same strategy applies to your home. Don't advertise with one of those stupid "This house protected by Smith and Wesson" signs or any other sign that more or less advertises you probably have easy to pawn or sell firearms in the house.

It's also worth having a security company sign displayed near the front and back doors. They do serve as a deterrent against thieves who are just driving through the neighborhood. If you have a security system and your neighbor doesn't, guess which house they'll hit.

Once they get it, don't make it easy for a burglar. Most burglars will hit the living room and master bedroom as that's where the consumer electronics and the jewelry tend to be. They are far less likely to spend time going through a kids bedroom, or a bathroom, especially if an alarm is sounding and they know the clock is ticking. You can't break into a safe you didn't find, so put them where they are least likely to look.

People worry about fire and focus on a fire safe, but the fact is unless you spend a **** load of money on a very high end safe, the average fire safe will not protect your guns from a fully involved house fire. Theft is a far bigger threat, and an easier to conceal safe is a better choice than a large bulky fire safe out in the open - especially if you do not have an alarm system, giving them lots of time to break into your safe in the privacy of your home.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:04 PM
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When I was a youngster something made a deep impression on me.

Growing up poor, you can imagine that on Halloween night the one house in town that gave out full (nickle sized) Snickers bars for trick or treat drew the attention of all the kids.

Later on I took my turn at running the local residential paper route. Pedal my keester all over town throwing papers and collecting chump change subscriptions monthly.

People that looked like they were doing ok were the worst on collection day. Every excuse in the book to screw this fat kid out of his Playboy Magazine fund. Can you catch me next week?.....Forty five cents? really?

Ok, the one house that I never had a problem from? Yep, Snickers house.
Once they even invited me in, made me walk to "THE SAFE" so the lady in the house could open it to get my subscription.

I never knew or even saw anyone who had a real safe in their house. None of my buddies had either. I know that because I told them all about it the next day.

What good is knowing about a safe....it you don't plan a burglary and safe cracking? None of me or my pals were wired that way though. We planned the whole thing out up to and including some detailed surveillance which might have been mis-identified as window peeping. Ok, it was window peeping because the lady of the house did cut a fine figure. Casing a burglary seemed a little less creepy than pervey window peeping.

I guess what I'm getting at is that people pay attention to things...little things. When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you are a criminal, everyone stands as a potential victim. Seeing things through their eyes is a rare experience....because we are not wired that way ourselves.

Childhood fantasies are as close as I ever came to committing burglary....all from just knowing where a house with a safe was.

A bumper sticker?
Sure, I can see that happening.
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Old 09-23-2020, 12:28 AM
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Great reminder.
I still carry a pair of handcuffs only now they stay cuffed to my driver's seat rails which are bolted to the floorboard.
If and when I have to conduct business in a gun-free zone my pistol is cuffed there secured.
Even with this precaution, I'm aware that it's really not safe there. However, I have taken reasonable action to prevent theft. I'm like a cat on a hot tin roof until I retrieve it.
Because no one else has handcuff keys?
Almost every gun is now sold with a cable lock, not the best option, but at least not every other person has a key that fits it.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:09 AM
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There's a member here who makes in-car console safes. I'm surprised he hasn't posted on this discussion yet.
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:22 AM
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I have a single bumper sticker with an esoteric political/psychology joke on it. 98% won't get it, most who get it will laugh, the remainder will get pissed.

I always roll my eyes at the family window decals, though I do appreciate the t-rex eating the stick-figure family.

I live on the outskirts of the DC metro area, in a lovely area. Home break-ins are nearly unheard of (especially now that half the homes have Ring or other video surveillance systems), but people go through the streets looking for unlocked cars to pillage on a nearly nightly basis.

A parked car is simply a much easier target of opportunity than a home. What constitutes reasonable precautions for the two are very different. Personally, I can't legally carry in my state so I only have guns in my car if I'm going to the range. But I'd never leave one in my car even if I could. I also keep all my guns locked up at home, in a dedicated safe or a closet in my office with an electronic deadbolt.
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:16 AM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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Neighbors around here all pile up their garage with junk and park their cars in the driveways. Then they scratch their heads when their cars get broken into (usually unlocked). Clean out your garage and park inside if you have one. Then you can leave your vehicle unlocked if you choose. Just don't forget to close the garage door..

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Old 09-23-2020, 11:37 AM
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Guns stolen from unlocked vehicles twice by those who knew better. I never leave a car gun in the car unless I'm in the car with it. One of the people I know had their car in a underground garage at a motel they were staying at. Supposing security, the gun was in the locked trunk of an unlocked car. Until the thief pushed the little button in the glove compartment that unlocked the trunk. A .44 magnum 2",- there it was, gone. Locked is not always locked. Had the gun been with him in his room it wouldn't be in the hands of a criminal today.
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by hostler View Post
Because no one else has handcuff keys?
Almost every gun is now sold with a cable lock, not the best option, but at least not every other person has a key that fits it.
Seriously?
If you have a cable lock then by all means, please use it.

I'm not even going to tell you about all of the people who could also "pick" a cable lock. These are the same world class professionals who walk around with handcuff keys.

I mean that this elite upper echelon criminal element should be planning casino or armored car heists....except for being tipped off by my bumper sticker....I suppose.

Look, I mentioned that handcuffs "could " be used simply because I happened to have some on hand. If you have a cable lock on hand then by all means, use it.

I've seen threads on forums where motorcycle riders openly carry their pistols on full display. Their rationale is that this openly displayed weapon will be a deterrent to otherwise aggressive motorists. It's been my experience that such a display would result in a vehicular assault and gun grab.
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:19 PM
jamestx jamestx is offline
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Here in TX , per castle doctrine, a loaded firearm on the car is legal however many donít stop an think about the above issue. I had an NY CCP for over 20 years til I moved here. For the TX CHL they want to repeat and pay for theirs which I feel is ridiculous being NY is one of the first states to ever offer concealed carry permits and still one of the toughest to get one in being a ďmayĒ issue state not a ďshallĒ issue state like TX. So I have not obtained one for TX bc of that and the fact that I can carry in the car home property etc as well with 30.06 & 30.07 signs I canít carry on those establishments not like NY where you canít have a sign telling me where I can and canít carry as long as itís not a school , Fed bldg, or NYC! So most of the time the gun will be left in the car when in such an establishment. Doesnít make a lot of sense to obtain one for here do to those facts so itís even more important since a firearm will be left in vehicles more her to make sure its secure and if broken into and taken, reported immediately! But best course is to park close or in clear view areas less likely to be a target whenever possible. IMO & 2 cents worth.
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:22 PM
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I believe that people who have carried a pistol for a living are going to take a look at this issue from a practical perspective.

As a young Patrolman I was suddenly required to be armed at all times. That meant that all of my friends and family were exposed to this new requirement. Did they have to understand or did they not even give it a second thought until I showed up to mom's house for Christmas dinner and take off my sport coat looking like John Dillinger?

Quite frankly, it was not their problem to think about, it was mine. Could I simply have slipped my pistol off and stashed it under my driver's seat. Right? Only I knew better then and I still know better.

I learned all sorts of things from the people who I worked with. All sorts of tricks to fool people into thinking that I was a "normal " person. Securing my weapons was just one.
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jamestx View Post
Here in TX , per castle doctrine, a loaded firearm on the car is legal however many donít stop an think about the above issue. I had an NY CCP for over 20 years til I moved here. For the TX CHL they want to repeat and pay for theirs which I feel is ridiculous being NY is one of the first states to ever offer concealed carry permits and still one of the toughest to get one in being a ďmayĒ issue state not a ďshallĒ issue state like TX. So I have not obtained one for TX bc of that and the fact that I can carry in the car home property etc as well with 30.06 & 30.07 signs I canít carry on those establishments not like NY where you canít have a sign telling me where I can and canít carry as long as itís not a school , Fed bldg, or NYC! So most of the time the gun will be left in the car when in such an establishment. Doesnít make a lot of sense to obtain one for here do to those facts so itís even more important since a firearm will be left in vehicles more her to make sure its secure and if broken into and taken, reported immediately! But best course is to park close or in clear view areas less likely to be a target whenever possible. IMO & 2 cents worth.
Like I used to tell Dorothy....this ain't Kansas.
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