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Old 09-29-2020, 08:17 PM
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Since we don't have a STUPID forum I guess I'll post it here. Our hero shoots through his own windshield.

Dash camera captures man shooting through own windshield in Orange County - YouTube
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Old 09-29-2020, 08:39 PM
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Seems really rational...
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Old 09-29-2020, 11:26 PM
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Shooting through the windshield is a perfectly viable option if needed.
Not a preference, but it will work
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Old 09-30-2020, 12:38 AM
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Again. Some people shouldn't own guns. Unless the drver in front was shooting at him, not sure how he justifies self D.
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Old 09-30-2020, 01:33 AM
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Look, I know that most of us, maybe all of us, are dedicated to self defense and we own firearms for that purpose. And it is true that firing a gun through a windshield can be a method of self preservation. Maybe not the best method but, still, a method.

However, under the circumstances, Mr. Mazzetta had a much better weapon at his command.

It's called brakes..............
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Old 09-30-2020, 02:15 AM
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As I recall the drivers in front had just driven by and fired on him while driving by. I have been in a small motel room when a .45 was fired. It was a tad unpleasant. I can't imagine what it is like in a car shooting out from the inside. Must have been really interesting.
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:00 AM
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My ears and eyes hurt just watching that stupidity..
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Old 09-30-2020, 07:10 AM
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Wow! Just a bad, bad idea in my opinion. Interesting that the "defendant" has dash cams in his pickup truck for both the interior and forward facing.

I think the best thing to do if fired upon while driving is to hit the brakes, take up a defensive position, call 911. If the driver who was shooting at you decides to press the attack, then there is no question about self-defense and the need to use deadly force.*

*I am not an attorney nor an attorney spokesperson.
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Old 09-30-2020, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by robertrwalsh View Post
As I recall the drivers in front had just driven by and fired on him while driving by. I have been in a small motel room when a .45 was fired. It was a tad unpleasant. I can't imagine what it is like in a car shooting out from the inside. Must have been really interesting.
Ok, if that were the case & the attacking driver went by him, threat ended. It isnt self def if you are chasing your attacker in public.
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Old 09-30-2020, 05:43 PM
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Beltone sponsor of the year.
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:08 PM
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Again. Some people shouldn't own guns. Unless the drver in front was shooting at him, not sure how he justifies self D.
If someone points a gun at you, are you going to wait for him to take the first shot? Something to think about...
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:10 PM
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The perp rammed him, then pulled a gun on him, what's the problem with defending yourself?
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:14 PM
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The perp was driving away. No attack = no justification of self defense.

There's an enormous difference between folks who will only shoot as a last resort and those who are itching for a justified opportunity, IME. That's true inside law enforcement as well.
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:21 PM
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I wonder if insurance will cover the windshield. ��
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:34 PM
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The perp rammed him, then pulled a gun on him, what's the problem with defending yourself?
The prosecution would have a hay day if forensics showed the offender was shot in the back while fleeing the scene.
The danger was over after the fact, self defense would no longer hold up as a viable reason to shoot.

I see this was already answered above.

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Old 09-30-2020, 07:20 PM
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The guy is a genius. He figured out a way to increase muzzle velocity by 134 fps with zero increases in recoil. (Just drive 94 mph when you shoot ... )
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Old 09-30-2020, 08:36 PM
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He could have at least told his buddy to plug his ears.

Lots of stupid to go around. A brake check is usually a bad idea.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
If someone points a gun at you, are you going to wait for him to take the first shot? Something to think about...
If the "attacking" driver was pointing a gun out the back window, I am just stopping. Driving & shooting thru the window is kinda stupid if you have options. Stopping is a good option, so is changing lanes or any other evasive manouver. Somethin to think about.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:20 PM
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The perp rammed him, then pulled a gun on him, what's the problem with defending yourself?
See post 13.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:30 PM
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There is a video of an LEO shooting at a fleeing car. He is shooting through his windshield while in pursuit. He fires several shots.
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Old 10-01-2020, 02:36 AM
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The perp was driving away. No attack = no justification of self defense.

There's an enormous difference between folks who will only shoot as a last resort and those who are itching for a justified opportunity, IME. That's true inside law enforcement as well.
It is so HARD to ARGUE with logic. And I won't!

Perp drives away = IT IS OVER for a self defense argument. Justification disappeared at 90 miles per hour, more or less.....

Even if the Porsche driver fired his weapon, which I did not see in the video, nothing requires you to get into a gunfight just because you're POed. It's not Hollywood, you're not James Bond, Jason Bourne, Big Jake, Matt Dillon, Raylan Givens, or any other heroic Hollywood gunfighter who never makes a mistake with a gun. Stop driving. Pull over. Call 911. Meanwhile, just wait. If the perp comes back, well, then you're going to be called upon to defend yourself.

He ain't comin' back, folks.............

Please, remember this, WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS, the Constitution gives us the right to keep and bear arms and without getting political many places really do permit us to do this, day and night, with or without licenses. And we can fight/defend ourselves when we have to - but engaging in gunfights unnecessarily is totally irresponsible. It gives all gun owners a bad name for no reason.

Jumping off soapbox that Biku put me on...............
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Old 10-01-2020, 07:36 AM
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There is a video of an LEO shooting at a fleeing car. He is shooting through his windshield while in pursuit. He fires several shots.
I've seen that video and it was featured on A&E's massively popular, yet cancelled, TV show, "Live PD". The passenger in the fleeing vehicle had opened fire on the pursuing officer, the officer first returned fire through his opened door window, then got behind the fleeing SUV and fired through the windshield, if I recall correctly.

It's one thing for law enforcement to engage in such a manner, it is an entirely different thing for a citizen to engage in such behavior. The right to carry a firearm and the issuance of a CCW permit does not make a citizen a law enforcement agent.
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Old 10-01-2020, 07:37 AM
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I wonder if insurance will cover the windshield. ��
I'm gonna say.... nope.
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Old 10-02-2020, 05:40 PM
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"Safelight repair...safelight replace"....uh...no
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:26 PM
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If you have to drive 90MPH to get within range, you are not defending yourself, you are retaliating. I couldn't make out the words on the passenger's T-Shirt, but it should have read "I'm with Stupid".
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:49 PM
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My ears and eyes hurt just watching that stupidity..
When I was a kid, no one was home, and I shot my dad's 303 Enfield in the basement ---one time.

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Old 10-02-2020, 09:02 PM
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Always easy to criticize until you’re the one firing . . .
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:58 PM
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Again. Some people shouldn't own guns. Unless the drver in front was shooting at him, not sure how he justifies self D.
comments like this always make me uncomfortable. Who gets to decide who should and who should not own guns in advance?
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Old 10-03-2020, 10:27 PM
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There is a video of an LEO shooting at a fleeing car. He is shooting through his windshield while in pursuit. He fires several shots.
Depending on dept & circumstances, that may be warranted, but rarely a good idea. Just cuz cops do something doesnt make it not stupid.
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Old 10-03-2020, 10:30 PM
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comments like this always make me uncomfortable. Who gets to decide who should and who should not own guns in advance?
I think society can say who is too stupid or too incompetent to do many things. Stupid with a gun in your home, on you. Stupid with a gun in public, should be dealt with. THat doesn't make me uncomfortable. Hey I dont think certain people should have kids, bu they do.
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:07 AM
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It appears the driver shooting through his windshield was nor driving a vehicle with BRAKES.
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:29 AM
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It would not surprise me if the local DA filed charges against the guy shooting through his windshield. The threat ended when the other driver went by, and as responsible concealed carriers we must maintain the moral high ground.
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:36 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that shooting at someone in a car, ramming them, and then fleeing, is a FELONY! I think that shooting the guy in the ramming car, just because he is fleeing, does not free him from being a FELON. Just because you drive off, that gives you a free pass? I don't think so.
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:46 AM
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I think society can say who is too stupid or too incompetent to do many things. Stupid with a gun in your home, on you. Stupid with a gun in public, should be dealt with. THat doesn't make me uncomfortable. Hey I dont think certain people should have kids, bu they do.
I'm okay with anyone owning guns. Even you. We don't do it with any of the other rights, and we eliminated the literacy test for voting . . .
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:46 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that shooting at someone in a car, ramming them, and then fleeing, is a FELONY! I think that shooting the guy in the ramming car, just because he is fleeing, does not free him from being a FELON. Just because you drive off, that gives you a free pass? I don't think so.
No one said that. You arent a cop, you dont get to chase the bad guy & shoot at him. Its called self defense. Wrap your head around that. It will keep ypu from being in the news.
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:49 AM
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I'm okay with anyone owning guns. Even you. We don't do it with any of the other rights, and we eliminated the literacy test for voting . . .
Which looking at our current election might have been a poor play? Yep I am fine with stupid people owning guns at home, just dont let them carry them into public spaces. The idiot shooting thru his windshield was lucky no rounds struck an innocent. Cops might get a small break on such reckless behavior but civi rarely do.
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:51 AM
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. . . Yep I am fine with stupid people owning guns at home, just dont let them carry them into public spaces. . .
Freedom, but in the manner I dictate, peasant . . .
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:55 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that shooting at someone in a car, ramming them, and then fleeing, is a FELONY! I think that shooting the guy in the ramming car, just because he is fleeing, does not free him from being a FELON. Just because you drive off, that gives you a free pass? I don't think so.
You are very wrong. From Garner v Tennessee, 471 U.S. 1 (1985):

Apprehension by the use of deadly force is a seizure subject to the Fourth Amendment's reasonableness requirement. To determine whether such a seizure is reasonable, the extent of the intrusion on the suspect's rights under that Amendment must be balanced against the governmental interests in effective law enforcement. This balancing process demonstrates that, notwithstanding probable cause to seize a suspect, an officer may not always do so by killing him. The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable.

And that is for police.
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Old 10-04-2020, 01:24 PM
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You are very wrong. From Garner v Tennessee, 471 U.S. 1 (1985):

Apprehension by the use of deadly force is a seizure subject to the Fourth Amendment's reasonableness requirement. To determine whether such a seizure is reasonable, the extent of the intrusion on the suspect's rights under that Amendment must be balanced against the governmental interests in effective law enforcement. This balancing process demonstrates that, notwithstanding probable cause to seize a suspect, an officer may not always do so by killing him. The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable.

And that is for police.

Very true & consistent w/my academy training way back in 1968. Had my share of purse snatchers & muggers run from me and I NEVER shot at any of them. Some of those “races” I won while others got away to be arrested later.
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Old 10-04-2020, 01:26 PM
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No one said that. You arent a cop, you dont get to chase the bad guy & shoot at him. Its called self defense. Wrap your head around that. It will keep ypu from being in the news.
I have been involved in a self-defense shooting, and I was no-billed by a grand jury. I think that because of lawyers suing everyone in sight for stupid reasons, is the reason that not many of us want to get involved in protecting our fellow men and or/ women, when we see something going down. Sad commentary on our outlook on stuff like that today.

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Old 10-04-2020, 02:58 PM
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When you are really, truly in deadly danger with no way out but to shoot, your normal life is over.
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Old 10-04-2020, 03:11 PM
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As I recall the drivers in front had just driven by and fired on him while driving by. I have been in a small motel room when a .45 was fired. It was a tad unpleasant. I can't imagine what it is like in a car shooting out from the inside. Must have been really interesting.
In my younger and dumber days I fired a 45 1911 out the passenger window of a pickup truck from the driver's seat. My ears were still ringing the next day. Never do that again.
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Old 10-05-2020, 07:01 AM
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The closest I have come to shooting while inside a vehicle was about 20 years ago at a USPSA match. They had built a "car" that the shooter sat in and fired at targets through the windshield area. No glass, just a wooden mock up of the cabin portion of a car. Even with earplugs my 45 ACP 1911 barked louder than I had ever heard it bark before.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:37 AM
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Fortunately, I have never fired a handgun inside a motor vehicle.

Plenty of others have covered the applicable standards for self-defense, so there is no need for me to add anything to that discussion.

I have done quite a lot of testing the results of firing handguns through windshields. I tried a wide variety of pistols and revolvers in many popular calibers using every type of ammunition I could lay my hands on. What I learned is that without exception every handgun bullet fired through windshield glass was deflected from its normal trajectory, frequently by a wide margin. Not at all unusual for a bullet fired at a target in the driver seat through the windshield to completely miss the intended target. Many popular handguns and ammunition types will not even penetrate through windshields at modest ranges. Of those that actually penetrate there is no way to accurately predict any subsequent points of impact, even within a foot or more.

Windshield glass is very tough stuff that resists impact and penetration quite well, and most auto windshields are installed at angles that increase deflection.

I suspect that similar results would result from shots fired from inside the automobile.
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Old 10-05-2020, 12:12 PM
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Freedom, but in the manner I dictate, peasant . . .
Yet freedom should also include being free from stupid people doing stupid things that harm others. Somebody has to make rules or we be one portland.
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Old 10-05-2020, 12:16 PM
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I have been involved in a self-defense shooting, and I was no-billed by a grand jury. I think that because of lawyers suing everyone in sight for stupid reasons, is the reason that not many of us want to get involved in protecting our fellow men and or/ women, when we see something going down. Sad commentary on our outlook on stuff like that today.
Well there are other reasons to resist jumping Into a gunfight beside being sued. We rarely know 100% of what we see is what is happening. So jumping into to defend someone may actually just be attacking the wrong person, putting yourself at risk of prison as well.
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Old 10-05-2020, 12:18 PM
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The closest I have come to shooting while inside a vehicle was about 20 years ago at a USPSA match. They had built a "car" that the shooter sat in and fired at targets through the windshield area. No glass, just a wooden mock up of the cabin portion of a car. Even with earplugs my 45 ACP 1911 barked louder than I had ever heard it bark before.
I've done quite a bit of shooting from a vehicle, both in training & competition. It is not where I would choose to have a gunfight. Yes it will be really loud, regardless of caliber.
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Old 10-06-2020, 10:31 PM
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Yet freedom should also include being free from stupid people doing stupid things that harm others. Somebody has to make rules or we be one portland.
Nope. That's not how it works. Freedom is for "stupid" people as well . . .
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Old 10-06-2020, 10:57 PM
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Nope. That's not how it works. Freedom is for "stupid" people as well . . .
No,such thing as total freedom, never has been.
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Old 10-07-2020, 06:08 AM
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No,such thing as total freedom, never has been.
And that's where we run into the problem of stupid people deciding who the stupid people are and the rights of which they can be divested . . .
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