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  #51  
Old 10-19-2020, 07:45 PM
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Military doesnt require empty chanber because its efficient but because they think their troops arent smart/safe enough to carry a loaded gun.
This is offensive. What branch of the service were you in?
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  #52  
Old 10-19-2020, 07:48 PM
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This is offensive. What branch of the service were you in?
The one not smart or safe enough to carry a loaded weapon . . .
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  #53  
Old 10-19-2020, 08:21 PM
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All handguns shpuld be in a quality holster. Disadvantage of long DA pull is missing your first shot or more. DA only guns require a lot more trigger time to be accurate at speed.
A holster shouldn't be essential for carrying a firearm, but some handguns, like Glocks, require a holster from a safety perspective if for no other reason.

As for first shot double-action, your comment is true only if you're unfamiliar with your handgun and don't practice regularly. It should be second nature to the shooter, not a surprise. The same could be said for a Glock or something else. No excuse for being unfamiliar with a gun you depend on.
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Old 10-19-2020, 11:46 PM
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Military doesnt require empty chanber because its efficient but because they think their troops arent smart/safe enough to carry a loaded gun.
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This is offensive. What branch of the service were you in?
What's offensive about it? He is 100% correct. I spent 15 years in the Army and my direct experience is that they train to the lowest common denominator. I stood guard duty numerous times with an unloaded M16, with no ammunition even available in the guard shack. We used to hate it because the only thing the rifle was going to do was draw fire.

When I was in Germany every time we left post with automatic weapons there was an armed guard with us. He carried a 1911 with one magazine, in his pocket with FIVE rounds. A friend of mine was detailed to guard a convict on his way to the stockade. He had an unloaded M16 with a magazine with three rounds.

I wouldn't trust a good portion of the people I served with with a loaded water gun.
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Last edited by Smoke; 10-20-2020 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 10-20-2020, 06:50 PM
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This is offensive. What branch of the service were you in?
Its not offensive its just reality. Take a bunch of 18y olds that never handled a pistol. They dont get extensive practice time & you think they are capable to carry a fully loaded weapon? Uh. No.
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Last edited by fredj338; 10-20-2020 at 06:55 PM.
  #56  
Old 10-20-2020, 06:53 PM
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A holster shouldn't be essential for carrying a firearm, but some handguns, like Glocks, require a holster from a safety perspective if for no other reason.

As for first shot double-action, your comment is true only if you're unfamiliar with your handgun and don't practice regularly. It should be second nature to the shooter, not a surprise. The same could be said for a Glock or something else. No excuse for being unfamiliar with a gun you depend on.
Yes a holster should always be used. It puts the gun in exactly the same position for presentation every time & helps keep crud out of the gun.
Fwiw, your definition of regular practice probably waaaay diff than mine. No I dont have an issue with revo or semi, any config, but then I shoot more in a month than most do in a year, including leo. For the person that shoots 100-200rds a year, yeah get back to me on that one. A DA revo is just harder to hit with at speed, physics. A 2# gun with 8-9# trigger, yes it takes quite a bit of trigger time to get fast good hits.
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Last edited by fredj338; 10-20-2020 at 06:58 PM.
  #57  
Old 10-20-2020, 07:03 PM
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Yes a holster should always be used. It puts the gun in exactly the same position for presentation every time & helps keep crud out of the gun.
Fwiw, your definition of regular practice probably waaaay diff than mine. No I dont have an issue with revo or semi, any config, but then I shoot more in a month than most do in a year, including leo. For the person that shoots 100-200rds a year, yeah get back to me on that one. A DA revo is just harder to hit with at speed, physics. A 2# gun with 8-9# trigger, yes it takes quite a bit of trigger time to get fast good hits.
No doubt, opinions vary.
  #58  
Old 10-20-2020, 07:10 PM
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Its not offensive its just reality. Take a bunch of 18y olds that never handled a pistol. They dont get extensive practice time & you think they are capable to carry a fully loaded weapon? Uh. No.
I agree but you still ducked the question.

What branch of the military did you serve in?
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:39 PM
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Its not offensive its just reality. Take a bunch of 18y olds that never handled a pistol. They dont get extensive practice time & you think they are capable to carry a fully loaded weapon? Uh. No.
No, they are too dumb to carry a loaded weapon but they are just good enough to be sent to war and die for this country. Just stop!
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Old 10-20-2020, 08:14 PM
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No, they are too dumb to carry a loaded weapon but they are just good enough to be sent to war and die for this country. Just stop!
unlike Fred, I actually served and I will tell you based on my direct personal experience that a whole bunch of them ARE too dumb to carry a loaded weapon.
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Last edited by Smoke; 10-20-2020 at 08:26 PM.
  #61  
Old 10-20-2020, 08:27 PM
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That isnt the unsafe part Imo. Its the ability to respond to an attack in the shortest time period. Empty chamber carry requires may 100% more practice to be effective in a CQB incident w/o injurying yourself. Military doesnt require empty chanber because its efficient but because they think their troops arent smart/safe enough to carry a loaded gun.
Foxtrot Uniform Fredj338. There are soldiers that are proficient with Condition 3 as required by command.
  #62  
Old 10-20-2020, 08:37 PM
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  #63  
Old 10-20-2020, 08:37 PM
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I'm betting a lot of civilian CCW carriers in shall issue states are carrying loaded weapons with little or no practice. In some states, no classes and no qualification is needed to get a CCW permit.

And in several states, you don't need a permit to carry a loaded weapon concealed.

Yet we don't see massive numbers of ADs killing people.

All the military vets I know at least had a chance to handle and fire a gun in basic training if nothing further.

All the military vets I've talked too have a least been show how to handle a gun in basic training.

I think expecting troops to do guard duty with unloaded weapons and no ammo is just plain stupid.

A guy I know has a buddy that has shot in the back and paralyzed and nearly killed in Panama leading up to the Noriega incident because he had an empty weapon and was attacked while on guard duty.

IMO people in the military should always be armed (with ammo) when potentially in harms way. And should be trained to handle weapons in that situation.
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