Man Killed in Confrontation w/ 3 Car Jackers who Followed Him Home *Update: Post 29*

[Jack Flash]

YouTube

Sad story. Apparently he was followed home by 3 car jackers and got into a shoot out with them. It looks like one of the criminals went to a nearby hospital where he is in critical condition. I hope they catch the other two and put them all away for life.

See post 29 for a link to an update to the story.

[Hawkeye3844]

That completely sickens me!
A devoted husband, and father, was just protecting himself, on his home driveway.
These "animals" that attacked him, and are accessories ro murder, should have the death penalty charge along with the *** that shot him.


Hawk

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[Echo40]

It's a shame, but at least he's in a better place right now, which is less than anyone can say for the carjackers, much less once their times come.

[robrossk]

Sickening. I feel so sorry and sad for his family. I hope the bad guys get caught and prosecuted.

[Muss Muggins]

There’s more to this . . .

[cgt4570]

I grew up less than 20 miles from there.
Wow. Things have changed.

[robertrwalsh]

Since it happened in CA they will probably let the bad guys walk. If the victim had survived they would probably prosecute him for having a car worth stealing. There is no felony murder rule any more in CA so they can only prosecute the actual shooter for murder, IF they can PROVDE who the actual shooter was.

[Muss Muggins]

I didn't realize that CA had repealed the felony murder law, so I did some research, and they did so by legislation in late 2018. The law went through several court challenges, but survived intact and is now in effect. The real impact of the new law is that those convicted under the old law can apply for resentencing. Several of those previously convicted have been freed. . .

Of course, this incident occurred in Southfield, Michigan, near Detroit. Michigan abolished felony murder in 1980 . . .

Originally Posted by robertrwalsh

Since it happened in CA they will probably let the bad guys walk. If the victim had survived they would probably prosecute him for having a car worth stealing. There is no felony murder rule any more in CA so they can only prosecute the actual shooter for murder, IF they can PROVDE who the actual shooter was.

[shocker]

So, if you think you are being followed by folks with bad intentions, you don't go home, you keep driving and call 911. Right?

[6518John]

Originally Posted by shocker

So, if you think you are being followed by folks with bad intentions, you don't go home, you keep driving and call 911. Right?

Drive right to the police station.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by shocker

So, if you think you are being followed by folks with bad intentions, you don't go home, you keep driving and call 911. Right?

My first thought. Bringing a gunfight to your home is stupid, especially when your wife and kids are in that home. I honked my horn angrily at some guy who cut me off and he fell in behind me. I was watching him in my mirror and he was clearly angry. He could see my eyes in my mirror watching him. I was a block from my house. Kept going and headed back to town, towards the police station, and readied my pistol. Pulled into the station and he kept going.

[Jack Flash]

Some updates:
From one article:
When the gunfire began, the two men on the passenger side fled. At about 7:52 p.m., they were spotted fleeing up the road.
After Hudson was wounded, police believe he was pushed out of the Toyota, which was driven from the scene.
About 20 minutes later, a 25-year-old man police identified as a "person of interest" showed up at a hospital with a gunshot wound to his neck. Barren said he remains hospitalized in critical condition, but "we're not there yet" to make an arrest.
Right thoughtful of the carjacker's "friends" to run away like rats and leave him there bleeding.

Another article:
Southfield police believe father killed in carjacking was targeted

A few thoughts:
I agree that there is more to the story. It's hard to say much if you don't know the details.

When I left the Detroit area about 40 years ago, Southfield was a very desirable suburb. No idea what it's like now, but the articles talk like this is very unusual for Southfield.

If he knew he was being followed, obviously he could have made better choices on how to handle it. Years ago I was working second shift in St. Charles, MO. Driving home one night past midnight, I was just going through town, driving the speed limit and stopping at all the stop signs on the deserted streets. A couple of bozos on motorcycles got behind me and started yelling and revving their engines every time I would stop for a stop sign.

I thought they were just a couple of wanna-be tough boys, emboldened by booze, who would flee if confronted, but ... there were two of them ...

So I passed up my usual turn off and drove to the police station where I pulled in. They roared off into the night. Probably had to get back home to their mother's basement.

[shocker]

There's a lot of traffic signals between me and the police station. My first thought was drive to the police station, but then dialing 911 enroute and getting the cops involved might lead to 3 guys arrested and off the streets rather than being free to pick another victim.

[Jack Flash]

Originally Posted by shocker

... My first thought was drive to the police station, but then dialing 911 enroute and getting the cops involved might lead to 3 guys arrested and off the streets rather than being free to pick another victim.

Good thinking. My incident happened back in the pre-cell phone days. Shows my age ...

[Lightfoot4]

Originally Posted by kbm6893

I honked my horn angrily at some guy who cut me off and he fell in behind me.

I continually tell my family that the car horn is to prevent an imminent collision. Don’t use it to tell someone you don’t like their driving because you never know when you’re dealing with a nut job.

[murphydog]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

There’s more to this . . .

Under "reasonable" circumstances one may be led to think the murder victim may have been involved in some way with his assailants (business, nefarious activities, knowing them socially as friends of his kids, etc.). However, in these troubled times all the provocation needed seems to be - they wanted his car, he looked at them funny at a stop sign, or just random violence.

Prayers for his family.

[SF VET]

twice in my life someone has pointed a pistol at me when driving my car. I have quit any sort of angry response or action directed at other drivers. You just never know...

I shoot a lot of defensive IDPA, and read those sorts of forums too. One thing I have learned to do if I ever need to show my pistol while driving is to immediately call 911, because I have read that it has happened that the other antagonist has called the police and reported them for threatening them. Be the first to call, the assumption is likely that you are the threatened party, and not the assailant.

the tragedy of this will be felt for a lifetime for his survivors. And for me, I will only use a firearm to protect myself or family. If someone takes off with my car, I would much rather replace the car or like than go thru all the repercussions of a shoot or discharge.

All the best... and stay safe. SF VET

[Muss Muggins]

35 years in the business has taught one irrefutable fact. There is no coincidence in crime, especially murder . . .

Originally Posted by murphydog

Under "reasonable" circumstances one may be led to think the murder victim may have been involved in some way with his assailants (business, nefarious activities, knowing them socially as friends of his kids, etc.). However, in these troubled times all the provocation needed seems to be - they wanted his car, he looked at them funny at a stop sign, or just random violence.

Prayers for his family.

[Hapworth]

Originally Posted by SF VET

...One thing I have learned to do if I ever need to show my pistol while driving is to immediately call 911, because I have read that it has happened that the other antagonist has called the police and reported them for threatening them. Be the first to call, the assumption is likely that you are the threatened party, and not the assailant...

Agreed on first to call, when it is safe and viable to do so. But why would anybody ever see your pistol? If an assailant sees it, it should be because you're legally justified in drawing it and are about to use it. Otherwise, always carry, never tell.

[Hapworth]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

35 years in the business has taught one irrefutable fact. There is no coincidence in crime, especially murder . . .

Muss, I think I get where you're coming from and agree it often applies, but you seem to be saying there is no such thing as random targeting or an innocent victim...which I don't think is what you're really saying. Could you elaborate?

[Marshal tom]

I agree with Muss. I think that when it all shakes out, there will be more to this than a simple car jacking but it sure is possible.

[Muss Muggins]

I think there are many innocent victims. I think that random targeting of the instant variety rarely occurs, and even then it usually involves the severely mentally ill. There is nearly always motive, and all that awaits is means and opportunity . . .

Originally Posted by Hapworth

Muss, I think I get where you're coming from and agree it often applies, but you seem to be saying there is no such thing as random targeting or an innocent victim...which I don't think is what you're really saying. Could you elaborate?

[robertrwalsh]

My GF had the issue come up a few years ago. She felt like she was being followed and was near the police station, so she called 911, drove by the PD and they swooped on the guy. He had her license plate number and vehicle description written down. They did not arrest him, and refused to even tell us who the guy was, pointing out that it is NOT illegal to follow someone.

[shocker]

Question, can a "civilian" get driver info from a license plate #?

[Muss Muggins]

The short answer is "no . . . " The long answer is "not legally or without violating the terms of service of the provider . . ."

I pay for access to a search engine database which I use for my business. I can retrieve such information, but only for specified purposes. The searches are all tracked, and if I get audited and am found to have used the database for an unauthorized purpose, I'll lose it . . .

Originally Posted by shocker

Question, can a "civilian" get driver info from a license plate #?

[TX-Dennis]

Originally Posted by shocker

Question, can a "civilian" get driver info from a license plate #?

At one time you could here just by calling the PD. It was considered public information. I haven't tried that in many years, though, so I don't know if it's still true.

[Hapworth]

Originally Posted by TX-Dennis

At one time you could here just by calling the PD. It was considered public information. I haven't tried that in many years, though, so I don't know if it's still true.

That stopped after Rebecca Schaefer's murder and the ensuing Driver's Privacy Protection Act.

[moosedog]

Southfield borders Detroit on it's North West side. Detroit is where you can get killed for a pair of shoes or even a wrong look.

[Jack Flash]

Update:
Looks like the person of interest has been charged and is being held without bail.
Oakland prosecutor charge 25-year-old man with murder, carjacking after killing Southfield father

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by Lightfoot4

I continually tell my family that the car horn is to prevent an imminent collision. Don’t use it to tell someone you don’t like their driving because you never know when you’re dealing with a nut job.

I was angry, sure. But that wasn’t why I honked. He nearly sideswiped me as he cut me off, so the horn honk was instinct to let him know I was there.

Either way, using a horn isn’t a free pass to start a confrontation.

[Runs With Gun]

Originally Posted by shocker

So, if you think you are being followed by folks with bad intentions, you don't go home, you keep driving and call 911. Right?

In 2017, that nearly happened to me! I was followed into a rest stop and a passenger in the following vehicle ran up to my car and after a very bizarre and irrational hard luck story asked for money. When I refused he shook his fists in the air, screamed profanities, and stomped his foot on the ground. Not trusting his behaviors I had left it in gear and only needed to hit the gas.
I got out of there and called police.

I made sure they weren't tailing me and went to my motel.

I saw them tailgate me into the parking lot but blew it off as "bad drivers." In my 30 years of interstate travel, I had never been tailgated into a parking lot. Stupid me for blowing it off!

I had pulled in there so that I could get out and reload my carry pistols, that I had stored in the trunk, to comply with the blue state's laws on no self defense allowed!

Fortunately I tend to watch what others are doing and I watched them the moment they pulled to a stop. Had I gotten out of the car to go to my trunk I suspect he'd have been on me. Maybe my pepper would have been enough, maybe not.

In the future, I'll just drive on to the motel then rearm.