[QUOTE=CAJUNLAWYER;140929366

Caje's advice.... STAY THE F*** AWAY FROM TROUBLE OR SITUATIONS THAT YOU KNOW BETTER. No reason to insert yourself into ANY situation that may call for the use of deadly force. One of the first things asked in these type of situations is why were you (the shooter) even there in the first place-It goes to merde from there. And don't give me any " I won't let those so and so's dictate where I can go" nonsense. Use some common sense[/QUOTE]

Very, very good advice from a lawyer and I liked the price. Larry

We never solved the shooting in this thread, and we ain't gonna solve this 'un either . . .

A case of self defense or not (long) - Sadly update in Post #36.

Still the best opinion out there by a prosecutor:

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

So far there is only one indisputable fact: The 2A also applies to the shallow end of the gene pool, and these acts do nothing but fuel the politicians determined to stop it by the only means available to them...gun controls. I really could care less about who slapped who, who did what first, etc. All I know is that both of these knuckleheads will be the poster children for the next anti gun initiative...and that ticks me off in a way I cant explain here since it would get me banned.

He violated the 'don't be stupid' clause of the law of life. He went to an emotionally charged protest carrying chemical spray and a pistol, then got into an angry exchange at arm's length with another armed guy. The other armed guy did the same, and is in jail, so his just desserts are coming. Bad judgement in all of life, including teasing venomous snakes, texting while driving, smoking in a grain elevator, etc., often carries a quick, unexpected death sentence.

Tough excrement to hotheads with guns. Idiots.

I see where you are coming from, but I'm going to disagree on the "deserving" part for the victim.

This was a "pro-" rally for him, he wasn't going to an "anti-" rally to SEEK confrontation with a group.
Like the guy on the news said last night (John Tiegen), this was a group of vets wanting to counter the presence of BLM/Antifa, and apparently the event itself was peaceful (haven't heard anything to the contrary, which surely would have been on the news by now).
The event was over, and he was in a group leaving the event, returning to their cars. Like fans leaving a stadium after a game.

His group was accosted by a small group (gunman, agitator, and media) for the sole purpose of provoking conflict. There are other videos, the agitator is screaming and cursing, and threatening and posturing. And the media members are right there, getting closeups of that. Also consider, this small group has multiple social media evidence that indicates they aren't "neutral", that the gunman and the media involved are strongly sympathetic to the "other side", and opposed to the group the victim was with.

They were attempting to provoke conflict for the sole purpose of creating it. Moments before the shooting the agitator was shouting "f--- around and find out", and he even looked in the gunman's direction as he said it.
They succeeded in angering this man, he responded towards the other members of the group in a non-lethal way, and he was shot and killed.

His "stupid actions"; I suppose you can include him going to a rally, but come on now. There are multiple "rallies" going on around the country, shouting hate towards the government and police, devolving into riots and looting. That side's consequences are commercials advertising their side on NFL games etc.
The other side wants to show they are present too, that not everyone wants total lawlessness and chaos. It might seem a high risk situation, but sometimes people think there are causes worth supporting.

I absolutely agree that walking around with pepper spray was stupid. Not only was it unnecessarily drawing attention, for practical purposes, it was ineffective (as illustrated by the outcome).
It showed he lacked the awareness of what he was facing. I think we all can learn from that, and process it...

He approached the media, thinking they were either neutral in position, or that the opposing side would not use deadly force. He was wrong. We should take away- do not engage anyone without seeing them as potentially hostile, even if they're wearing a "press" jacket. Because that's his move, and it got him killed.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Pepper spray and a concealed handgun. If someone is trying to provoke, walk away. It's really that simple.

We're all making choices.

It seems there were a bunch of mistakes made:
1. Don't take pictures of people w/out permission.
2. Don't wave pepper spray around, like a gun don't draw it until you need it.
3. Don't play bodyguard unless you're prepared to face the consequences.
4. Don't touch people you aren't friends w/.
5. If you hit/slap/punch/push/strike others be prepared for them to defend themselves.
Conclusion: If you get involved in stupid activities w/ stupid people stupid things will happen & no one will like the results.

Well. he "countered the presence of blm/antifa"....and it cost him his life.

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Stay protected my friends.

This.

I get that the victim made a lot of tactical mistakes. Don't roll around with pepper spray in your hand, attracting unwanted attention.
If someone reaches for your gun, that's the moment you need to also.
Don't assume you are safe because you are with others, and/or at an event you support.

I know a lot say "don't be out there". I get that, I don't want to go out into something like that. But heck, things like that are springing up all over, and most are NOT friendly to the average poster here (let's leave it at that).

If you must go, don't go armed, don't go angry, and don't engage with folks who only want trouble. If it quickly turns ugly, leave like your life depends on it - it may.

No charges for the shooter.

Denver DA to drop murder charge against security guard who shot man at protest

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Lucky guy.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

sigp220.45: Thanks for the update! I was curious on how that situation turned out.

I'd guess he's out $25k to 50k in legal fees by now.

This is NOT a “mistake.” If you are in a public place, my understanding is that you have no expectation of privacy. This took place at a public demonstration, for heaven’s sake. Of course anyone there should expect to be photographed. I do think the news agency involved made a serious mistake when they hired the unlicensed guard, if they actually did that. That’s just crazy!

I missed this thread when it appeared two years ago. As I was reading along I didn’t know how this would end. I was surprised that the charges were dropped, but I can understand it. The victim having a weapon at the demonstration I’m sure didn’t help the state’s case. For us non-professional gun-toters, I couldn’t agree more with the advice of our esteemed Cajun barrister. Everything sure would have been simpler if these two had just backed away from each other and gone off to have a good chew somewhere.

Look for trouble and you’ll usually find it. Indeed.

I bet the TV station got stuck with those.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

I’d be surprised if it wasn’t more.

How are you guys seeing "Black Guns Matter" from a t shirt clearly printed: B L M ?

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

If you pepper spray a Guard and make it where he is unable to fulfill his job...........

It makes sense for the guard to take out the problem while he is able to
befor he is unable to take care of himself and the people he was to protect....

I would think ?

Trying to put Guards or LE people down...........
is not a good idea in my book.

I'm curious, would one or more the legal types weigh in on the possibility/probability of a civil suit for wrongful death against whoever hired the unlicensed "security person"?

We can't read the victim's mind, but is the consensus that the victim backed up and deployed and drew the bear spray because the shooter grabbed at his gun, or was might there have been another reason?

I wish the DA had articulated why he didn't believe that he couldn't overcome a self-defense claim? That didn't seem to be a problem in the Kyle Rittenhouse persecution.

Teary eyes is not enough justification to take a life anywhere I have been educated.

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Front sight and squeeze

The "Politics" of Denver's DA ?????????

A lot of DA's seem to be interpreting the law.... rather than enforcing them!

IMHO just.....STAY AWAY from this kind of event!!!

The "guard" was an AntiFa goon. He tried to start an altercation with the victim several times before the shooting.

Yes, it's called a "reasonable expectation of privacy," and the second you walk out of a restroom, changing room or your house, you generally lose it. It's the same legal interpretation that allows banks and homeowners to have security cameras that point to a publicly-accessible space like a teller window or the sidewalk.

I'm certainly not saying the guy deserved to die, but getting angry at a news crew for being at a newsworthy event with cameras rolling makes you kind of dumb (again, "dumb" does not mean you need a death sentence). And it's very common to see attacks on media employees (which, coincidentally, are a civil rights violation). I know some reporters -- even in small towns -- who've had guns pulled on them, threatened, shoved, shot at, had their homes vandalized after getting doxxed, etc. just for showing up at a house fire, protest scene or even a school board meeting.

The shirt says "BLM/You're f****** right Bikers lives matter"