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  #1  
Old 11-07-2020, 09:34 AM
Deceasedeye Deceasedeye is offline
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Default No SA for me

I am a firm believer in DA only for self defence. A bobbed hammer is OK but no SA . That hammer can cause to many problems IMHO! What say ye?
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Old 11-07-2020, 09:47 AM
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I would say(all this talk is just to meet the minimum words in a post.)

NAY.
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Old 11-07-2020, 09:48 AM
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s/a for me shot placement is key.
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Old 11-07-2020, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
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s/a for me shot placement is key.
Aye. One cannot miss fast enough to save one's life.
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Old 11-07-2020, 10:06 AM
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A lot of 1911 fans, including me, would not agree with your no SA comment.
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Old 11-07-2020, 10:06 AM
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All my wheelguns have exposed hammers. Should the worst happen, and I have the opportunity to thumb the hammer, I know that first shot's going exactly where I aim.
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Old 11-07-2020, 10:14 AM
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My Arthritic fingers hate the long trigger pulls and long follow-up resets on DAO.

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Old 11-07-2020, 10:18 AM
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The way I see it, what if you're out walking around, minding your own business, EDCing your trusty six shooter (or five shooter if you are a J-frame man), and suddenly, out of the blue, whammo!

A huge comet smacks into the earth, darkening the skies causing an apocalyptic collapse of society and all ya got is six shots to survive?! Well then, you may wish to conserve those six shots very, very carefully to, say, shoot a fat (hopefully) bunny at distance! Yep. Pull that hammer back carefully, line up the sights and BANG! Dinner!

You'd be glad you had the option of single action in that case, I sure bet!

Last edited by Onomea; 11-07-2020 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 11-07-2020, 10:35 AM
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No one solution works for everyone, and everyone has their own needs, wants, and preferences.

Different strokes...

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Old 11-07-2020, 10:37 AM
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That horse has been...................beaten to a pulp........You do you want to and we'll do as we want to.
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Old 11-07-2020, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheelzip View Post
My Arthritic fingers hate the long trigger pulls on DAO.
My sentiments exactly! I didn't think I'd ever say that, but just the other day I found that the trigger pull on most of my double-actions seemed exceptionally hard. Not only that, it just plain hurt to pull the trigger back. The only one that didn't hurt so bad was on the Model 27-2. All the others, Model 10, Model 15, Model 19's, etc. were downright difficult.

Okay, I'll be the first to admit that I'm getting old, but I never thought arthritis would be such a problem. Thank goodness for single-action!
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Old 11-07-2020, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
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That horse has been...................beaten to a pulp........You do you want to and we'll do as we want to.
By far the best answer.
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Old 11-07-2020, 12:46 PM
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Give me a 1911, with standard 230 grain ammo any day. There are a lot of adversaries all over the world that are unfortunately not here to agree with that statement
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Old 11-07-2020, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
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A lot of 1911 fans, including me, would not agree with your no SA comment.
I’m with Phil!
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Old 11-07-2020, 01:09 PM
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I carried a Model 15 or 19 for 33 years on the job, and a Colt DS for 25 years as my off-duty CCW which might explain my current carry preference.

Today, I prefer either a Model 3953 or 4053 for EDC even though I enjoy my S&W TDA handguns for range fun.
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Old 11-07-2020, 01:16 PM
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DA revolvers with exposed hammers were the main defensive weapons in America and much of the world for 80-90 years and I don't remember many complaints about the hammer spurs.
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Old 11-07-2020, 01:22 PM
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I won't attempt to sway anyone's opinion as I don't think that can be done here, but I'll mention a very enjoyable way of shooting that I've been working at for about twenty years.

After many years of shooting "Weaver stance" using two hands for revolver and semi-auto pistols, I started using a one-handed bullseye stance and firing single-action only at 25 (and sometimes 50) yards. It helps to develop skill and improve general technique and you can't help but improve your two-handed shooting anytime you want to revert back to that, and with no loss in shooting ability.

Being reasonably prepared for all possibilities is wise, but there's far more to enjoyable shooting than preparing for a gunfight, something many seem obsessed with. Try shooting your .38 snub nose at 25 yards, bullseye-style. Quite challenging, though they're capable little guns, but get pretty good with something a little bigger first.

Last edited by rockquarry; 11-07-2020 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 11-07-2020, 01:40 PM
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Personally I won't own any castrated handguns.
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Old 11-07-2020, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post

Being reasonably prepared for all possibilities is wise, but there's far more to enjoyable shooting than preparing for a gunfight, something many seem obsessed with. Try shooting your .38 snub nose at 25 yards, bullseye-style. Quite challenging, though they're capable little guns, but get pretty good with something a little bigger first.
I’m glad to see a kindred spirit.

I mostly shoot at an indoor range. The max distance is 20 yards, but rarely do any targets but mine make it past the 7 and at least half are at 3 yards or less.

I like to roll mine down to end, stick one hand in my back pocket, and shoot like its 1955. Very relaxing, and its rewarding to roll it back and sometimes see a decent group.

Once a nice guy in the next booth asked if I ever expected to shoot somebody at that distance. I said I wasn’t shooting people, I was shooting targets.

I realize this is the concealed carry/self defense area, so I apologize for the meander. I do think accuracy has its place in self defense, and I have no problem with single action anything.
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Old 11-07-2020, 02:07 PM
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My Model 65 is DAO, but the spur is still on the hammer. A gunsmith removed the single action capability about 30 years ago. I do well DA and the 65 is the only revolver that I have had altered. My L- and N-frames are all SA/DA.

Be that as it may, I rarely shoot SA in the guns that have the capability as I am good at DA shooting.

I agree with the OP here.
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Old 11-07-2020, 02:29 PM
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I have a different way of looking at this.

I do NOT own any revolver I consider to be for self defense only and therefore they are intact, SA/DA. Personally I consider a revolver modified for DA only defeats the purpose of the design even IF the revolver is carried primarily for self defense.

Quite frankly self defense is NOT the primary reason I own guns. I do own some guns that are much more practical for self defense than revolvers but that is still not my primary reason for owning them.
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Old 11-07-2020, 02:58 PM
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I have found two reasons to carry a SA/DA revolver over DA. However, I prefer a DA centennial or night cobra. A three years ago I was on a friend’s property talking about coyotes that killed his dog. About 50 yards away from us walks a coyote out of the woods. I didn’t take a shot, but I remember thinking that if I had a SA I would feel more comfortable about taking the shot. If I had known a coyote was going to walk up on us I would have carried a rifle, but all I had was a 442 on me. About five year ago I was shooting some WWB and by the time I made it around to the fourth shot the trigger was hard to squeeze. I was able to pull the hammer back despite the fact it appeared to be a high primer.
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Old 11-07-2020, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceasedeye View Post
I am a firm believer in DA only for self defence. A bobbed hammer is OK but no SA . That hammer can cause to many problems IMHO! What say ye?
IMO, it is only good for guns that are at risk for snagging....double action shooting can be quite accurate and fast when practiced, I am very good at staging and placing double action shots but if snagging isn’t the main concern or compactness for deep concealment, then to deactivate the single action option is a waste since there are times when a single action shot is needed and available....a clean crisp shot single action at 25 to even a hundred yards can be made in a pinch where a double action shot would be more risky....even at those rifle range shots...they can be made....it has happened. Agreed most combat shooting can and probably should be done dao, but there are instances where it is less than optimum when a single action shot is...optimum for circumstance....was that enough to convince? Some folks would agree I think...
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Old 11-07-2020, 04:47 PM
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I carry a S&W model 629 with a 3 inch barrel a lot of the time. Also carry a 3 inch ATI 45 auto.
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Old 11-07-2020, 05:46 PM
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Like many others, I own and enjoy SAO handguns, but I personally prefer DA/SA in revolvers and semiautos for defensive carry. All my old school LE revolver training stressed double action firing, and I still favor it for defensive duty revolvers. I guess the double action trigger pull has never been a big issue for me because of all the repetition. Never had a problem with snagging the hammer spur when concealed carrying OWB, but I often pocket carry a hammerless 642 nowadays. To each his own.

Last edited by Ranger514; 11-07-2020 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 11-07-2020, 06:14 PM
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Wild Bill Hickok, Bill Tilgman, Wyatt Earp, John Slaughter, Jeff Milton, etc. would sure be upset to discover they couldn't do what they did....
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Old 11-07-2020, 06:17 PM
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DA - my EDC is an LCP for summer & 340PD in cold weather.
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Old 11-07-2020, 06:37 PM
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I kinda like DAO. OTOH, I almost always eat a bowlful of broccoli for breakfast.

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Old 11-08-2020, 08:37 AM
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I don't understand why people who hold these opinions, like no SA for self defense, always feel the need to try and prove their opinion correct for everyone else. I see ZERO down side to having the ability of SA in my carry guns. It's like trying to say having a 357 Magnum is negative because you only plan on shooting 38 Specials. Choices are always a good thing, make yours and leave everyone else out of it.
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Old 11-08-2020, 09:14 AM
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There are some solid arguments in favor of DAO. But there are also some solid arguments for DA/SA, SAO, striker-fired, etc. In general, I prefer DA, either DAO or DA/SA for carry/home defense, but I'm not against other mechanisms. I've even been carrying my 1911 around the house, cocked-and-locked, for the past month or so.

As I said before, there's no one solution for everyone.
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Old 11-08-2020, 09:23 AM
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My first carry was a 66. I liked the hammer for retention.
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Old 11-08-2020, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
I won't attempt to sway anyone's opinion as I don't think that can be done here, but I'll mention a very enjoyable way of shooting that I've been working at for about twenty years.

After many years of shooting "Weaver stance" using two hands for revolver and semi-auto pistols, I started using a one-handed bullseye stance and firing single-action only at 25 (and sometimes 50) yards. It helps to develop skill and improve general technique and you can't help but improve your two-handed shooting anytime you want to revert back to that, and with no loss in shooting ability.

Being reasonably prepared for all possibilities is wise, but there's far more to enjoyable shooting than preparing for a gunfight, something many seem obsessed with. Try shooting your .38 snub nose at 25 yards, bullseye-style. Quite challenging, though they're capable little guns, but get pretty good with something a little bigger first.
I've been having a lot of fun at the range the past couple of months shooting my snub nose's at silhouette targets at 25 yards, and I'm seeing improvement. Not practicing for a gunfight. Just shooting for enjoyment. I'm sticking with two hands for now, and double action. Two of my snubs are DAO, two are SA/DA. Actually, the one I'm having the most fun with is a recently purchased Taurus (never thought I'd say that) .22. I can shoot all afternoon for $20, and .22 is still not impossible to find. I know this is in the concealed carry and self defense forum. I carry whenever I leave the house, even for yard work. Snubs are my preferred concealed carry, and I don't see how what I'm doing diminishes my skills. I was getting mighty bored shooting targets at 7 yards.
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Old 11-08-2020, 10:42 AM
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Depends more on your proficiency with a specific weapon.
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Old 11-08-2020, 11:50 AM
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My carry guns are 642 revolvers because I pocket carry. If I carried in a holster I would carry a model 19 or a Commander. Hammer/no hammer and D/A only wouldn't matter to me. If you do shoot D/A revolvers you should shoot D/A enough to learn to hit with it in D/A mode. With a service revolver you can shoot very accurately via D/A. I used to shoot IDPA with D/A revolver as well as S/A semis, the difference in the scores(always better with S/A auto) was not due to accuracy, it was do to the semi holding more ammo and faster reloads.
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Old 11-08-2020, 01:57 PM
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Oh shucks, sumtimes I get so riled up over wither to go SA or DA....

I jest carry one of each.



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Old 11-08-2020, 07:55 PM
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SA or DA is fine with me for SD. My opinion.
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Old 11-08-2020, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceasedeye View Post
I am a firm believer in DA only for self defence. A bobbed hammer is OK but no SA . That hammer can cause to many problems IMHO! What say ye?
Were it not for the hammer, you'd be in a worse place when you pulled the trigger; I think you're speaking of the hammer spur.

In either case, the point is to train for the fastest return shot, which would most likely be double action. That does not presuppose being pinned behind cover, and wanting a return shot to be as accurate as possible, where you might want a well-aimed single action shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil View Post
A lot of 1911 fans, including me, would not agree with your no SA comment.
Assuming you're carrying C1 and not C3. (and I carry C1 when I have a 1911 on my hip).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheelzip View Post
My Arthritic fingers hate the long trigger pulls and long follow-up resets on DAO.
My guess is, if you're confronted with a situation where quick return fire is what will save you, your arthritic fingers will suffer through a DA pull just fine. Adrenalin is a wonderful temporary pain reliever.

Last edited by Hair Trigger; 11-08-2020 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 11-08-2020, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
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My guess is, if you're confronted with a situation where quick return fire is what will save you, your arthritic fingers will suffer through a DA pull just fine. Adrenalin is a wonderful temporary pain reliever.
I've tried all my SD guns in practice and DAO failed me.
I practice simulated stress with charging targets on trollies from short range. The first pull is fine, it's the rapid follow-up shots on long DA resets that my stiff fingers can't reliably accomplish. Just get a bunch of trigger flapping without much shooting. That's why DA/SA is my EDC. The short reset on follow-up shots is the best answer for me.



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Old 11-08-2020, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hair Trigger View Post
where quick return fire is what will save you, your arthritic fingers will suffer through a DA pull just fine. Adrenalin is a wonderful temporary pain reliever.
It's not just pain. Arthritis can also affect actual function.
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Old 11-08-2020, 08:33 PM
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Inside of 7 yards, the Glock is my go-to choice,,
outside of 25 yards,, the hammer pulled back on the 629 gets my vote,,

In between is a gray area,, it kinda blurs,,

I have had WAY too many hits beyond 75 feet with the 629,,
and
I have selectively few favorable hits at my 100 foot target with the Glock..


So, I can not pick only one,, the circumstances control the choice,,
for me,,
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Old 11-08-2020, 10:17 PM
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When revolvers dominated defensive carry weapons most professionals relied on their double action shooting and only used single action at long range when DA shooting wouldn't get hits. A few people liked to have the hammer spur removed on concealed carry or pocket guns but most savvy people knew to just put their thumb on the hammer when drawing(especial from the pocket) to prevent snags. Some large police departments (NYPD) started ordering all their guns with the hammer spur removed so the officer would never be tempted to cock it. I heard that after a police shooting, sometimes an attorney would tell the jury "the officer didn't mean to shoot the suspect, he cocked his gun giving it a hair trigger and it went off accidentally".

Last edited by Farmer17; 11-08-2020 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 11-08-2020, 11:37 PM
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Mainsail Mainsail is offline
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Use what ya got.
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Old 11-09-2020, 08:08 AM
gerhard1 gerhard1 is offline
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When revolvers dominated defensive carry weapons most professionals relied on their double action shooting and only used single action at long range when DA shooting wouldn't get hits. A few people liked to have the hammer spur removed on concealed carry or pocket guns but most savvy people knew to just put their thumb on the hammer when drawing(especial from the pocket) to prevent snags. Some large police departments (NYPD) started ordering all their guns with the hammer spur removed so the officer would never be tempted to cock it. I heard that after a police shooting, sometimes an attorney would tell the jury "the officer didn't mean to shoot the suspect, he cocked his gun giving it a hair trigger and it went off accidentally".
This is why I altered my Model 65. In the 1980's in Florida, there was a case where this claim was made, where the officer DID fire in SD and opposing counsel claimed that the revolver was cocked and the weapon was unintentionally discharged.

So there ARE valid arguments for converting DA/SA revolvers to DAO.
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Old 11-09-2020, 09:50 AM
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Use what ya got.
I like that approach. Buy quality. Learn to use it correctly, to clean it, and to maintain it. Establish proficiency and maintain it. Beyond that, it’s six of one, half-dozen of the other. That said, I do think a personally-established minimum weight for any kind of trigger is a good idea on a self-defense weapon. A four- to five-pound trigger on a .45 is about the minimum that is good for me. A two-pound target trigger, could be trouble.

Lawyers will say and do whatever they think will help them win. It’s their job and nothing will change that. I have never understood the concept of pointing a loaded gun at someone unless you are in the process of shooting. “Holding him at gunpoint” makes no sense. If you’re not shooting, point the gun somewhere else and get the finger off the trigger. JMHO.
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:42 PM
gerhard1 gerhard1 is offline
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I like that approach. Buy quality. Learn to use it correctly, to clean it, and to maintain it. Establish proficiency and maintain it. Beyond that, it’s six of one, half-dozen of the other. That said, I do think a personally-established minimum weight for any kind of trigger is a good idea on a self-defense weapon. A four- to five-pound trigger on a .45 is about the minimum that is good for me. A two-pound target trigger, could be trouble.

Lawyers will say and do whatever they think will help them win. It’s their job and nothing will change that. I have never understood the concept of pointing a loaded gun at someone unless you are in the process of shooting. “Holding him at gunpoint” makes no sense. If you’re not shooting, point the gun somewhere else and get the finger off the trigger. JMHO.
Are you saying that if you draw, you shoot?
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Old 11-10-2020, 01:03 PM
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ISCS Yoda ISCS Yoda is offline
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Dead horse we love to beat!

Everyone makes choices.

For my taste in self defense weapons, I think single action is a very bad choice for most shooters except the highly trained. Cocked and locked 1911s is not what the Army trained Soldiers for back in the day, not in my experience, anyway, and it's too complex for untrained shooters. But if you spend hours and hundreds of hours, and rounds, practicing with a single action pistol, well, different strokes and good muscle memory, and top quality handguns, fine. Your choice. Not mine but if you're good at it, well, like I said, fine.

Back in my cowboy action shooting days I would have felt very comfortable with single action revolvers for self defense but now I'm out of practice. But if you're good at it, fine.

My preference is traditional double action in pistols and revolvers. In revolvers every shot is the same. Point and shoot. Easy.

In TDA pistols you have your first long trigger pull, revolver style, which I like because of its inherent safety. Then you're at single action, etc. Simple, safe, and with a decocker it's excellent - thank you 3rd Gen S&Ws. My favorites!

Striker fired guns and DAOs are about the same IMHO, and I don't have any significant issue with that type of gun (we won't discuss "safety"-type triggers here). And I have them and use them. But I don't write home to momma about them like they're the best thing in the world. They're just easy.

Different strokes - - but to select DAO as the only way to go, I say thee nay.
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Old 11-10-2020, 01:12 PM
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ISCS Yoda ISCS Yoda is offline
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Are you saying that if you draw, you shoot?
As a general rule, that's what I used to teach. If you're in fear for your life you're not supposed to be playing LEO, yelling FREEZE!, or any other non-shooting tactic. Leave that to the professionals. If the threat is up close and personal then, yes, if you draw, you shoot. Except for a few few highly trained combat masters you're never in a position to dilly dally when defending yourself.

Know your target. Be sure you're right, then go ahead. (With all due respect to David Crockett.) But a deadly threat is a deadly threat - there is no time to waste unless you are not sure that there is a threat.

Or, to use another movie quote (although the Davy Crockett quote is actually true, this one is pure Hollywood), if you're going to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.

Sorry for the thread theft.
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