I've been working up loads for my new model 360 and have a common snub nose dilemma that I'd like opinions on.

Do I:
Go with higher velocity rounds that have a greater likelihood of expansion, but have a POI that is 2 to 5 inches low (depending on the load) at 7 yards?
Or, go with slower, non-expanding, rounds (like LSWC and DEWC) that hit at POA?

Part of me thinks that if I've only got 5 rounds, then each one should have maximum impact. But then shot placement is always important. Plus, there's the issue of faster follow up shots. What is your preference?

Thanks

Rounds on target. I load
for POA=POI. If the bullet
is not fantastic putting it
where it really needs to be
improves it's effect on the
target.

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never get out of the boat

I don't reload. But in general, I prefer medium-to-heavy for weight bullets, and I like to balance power with controllability, leaning towards controllability as shot placement is still the most important component of effectiveness.

My normal carry load is the Speer 135gr SB-GDHP +P. I haven't noticed a variance from POA. If I do my part, I can hit the X at 7 yards.

But I'm also satisfied with the performance I've gotten with FBI loads.

In either case, they're the most powerful loads that I can control reasonably well, and I can hit what I'm aiming for.

At the same time, I have been developing some hand issues, so I know I may not always be able to use those rounds in the future. I've also tested some 148gr target wadcutters and they work well. Mild recoil, and with a full-caliber meplat they should cut a decent wound channel while mitigating the risk for overpenetration vs other solid bullet weights/shapes/power levels.

While I'm not a fan of reloads for defensive use, my suggestion would be to just experiment until you can find a balance of power, controllability, and POI that works for you, while keeping in mind that shot placement is the most important factor.

Just my opinion.

How about 148 gr wadcutters?

A while back, I was talking to one of the S&W customer service guys about a J-Frame I sent in. I asked what load the pistol was calibrated to. IIRC he said they were calibrated so POA=POI at 7 yds with 158 gr standard loads and 135 gr +P loads.

2" to 5" down at 7 yds doesn't sound very reliable to me. Especially if you flinch down under pressure. I think I'd try heavier. Just a thought.

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Vegan by proxy.

The majority or self defense shootings resulted in lower than anticipated shots. Meaning you are likely to shoot low anyway.

Maybe I shouldn’t assume, but I assume we are talking 357 mag in the 360. I’m a big fan of mid-range loads when it comes to 357mag. The factory loaded .357 125 gr Golden Sabers were available a year ago, along with their 38spl counterpart, and the magnums are just a little hotter than a hot 9mm. I bought plenty of both at very reasonable prices. I like a 125-135 gr bullet between 1050-1250 FPS in.

I load for the wife's model 2 1/2" 19....

Hard cast SWCs at controllable velocities.

I used to carry HBWCs loaded backwards in my ankle bug when I was working.

POA being equal to POI is what I like in a defense loading.

.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Only hits count!

I'll choose accuracy every time.

I survived three on duty shootings w/my issued revolver and quick, accurate follow up shots will carry the day. My EDC is the no lock 340PD loaded w/Remington HTP 110 grain +P. I use this drill at the range: Using a standard paper plate @ 3, 5 & 7 yards I empty the gun as fast as possible, reload w/a speed strip & repeat. The goal is to keep all 10 rounds on the plate and I slow down a bit as distance increases.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Hitting your target trumps missing your target and hitting anything innocent... IF you do either, LEO will take your gun and you likely may never get it back anyway.

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S&W factory revolver armorer

Since the latest self defense ammo I’ve tested is Speer Gold Dot 135gr. +P, and since it hits pretty much where I shoot it. That’s what I have been carrying. I have Corbon that I have had good groups with to fall back on. I’m sure there is more stashed but can’t remember what.

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Two Handguns every day

Several years ago I tested the 16 loads shown below, hoping to find the
best load to carry for personal defense. I shot from a distance of 3 yards.
I used my S&W 642-1, except for the Ranger loads and a Treasury load.
I used my S&W Model 60 .357 to handle those hotter loads.

I built targets that were covered with a couple of layers of cotton and
a layer of denim. All the targets were tacked to a wooden box with
3/4 inch plywood on the front and the back.

Every one of the loads shown went through all the cloth, both layers of
plywood, and kicked up dust down range, so I was not able to recover
the bullets to see what happened to them.

At that range even I was able to keep the POI the same as POA.

All of the "exit wounds" looked roughly the same. I concluded that
any one of them would do the job. Not a dime's worth of difference.

I forgot to mention the wooden box was 12" from front to back
and the void in between was filled with sponge rubber from an
old mattress that I cut up.

Attached Images

SAM_0354.jpg (82.1 KB, 35 views)

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In Omnia Paratus

Thanks for all the replies. I'm leaning toward the 148 grn DEWCs and maybe some 158 LSWC or LSWCHP if I can find a load where POA is POI. Has anyone seen a slightly tapered, non-hollow point, 158 grn bullet with a big flat front? Was thinking that would be about perfect--wide front for punching holes that's also easier to reload into a cylinder than a WC.

Only hits count .
In a gunfight you don't have time to think about where your load actually hits and how high/low you need to hold .
Thinking time goes out the window ... trust me , been there.
Use the load that prints where you look and try to remember to use the sights ... stuff happens way too fast , eliminate as much extra thinking as you can ... just no time for it .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Load up what you think will do the most damage, and see where they hit. Then adjust you POA so the POI is where you want it. At 7 yards, you should be able to just point the thing and hit center mass.

This is a timely post. I was at the range today, trying out my new-to-me M66-1 2-1/2" RB, your revolver's grandaddy, with adjustable sights. My first 6 rounds were .38Spl +P loads. Aiming at the target bullseye (15 yards), my hits were centering 1-2 inches low and 3-5 inches left. I adjusted the sights and got the next six .38 Spl. centered 1 inch low and 2 inches left. The third set of 6 were mid-power .357 loads, which went center and 1-2 inches high without a second sight adjustment. I was holding bullseye all three sequences. The ammo was my reloads, both the .38 Spl+P and .357 were using the same 158gr. JHP Hornady XTP's.

Any one of the 18 rounds would have been lethal, the first 12 would have been liver and lung shots, the last 6 heart and spine.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I also practice the
flash sight picture.

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In Omnia Paratus

Well said GW!
I nowadays tend to go with the formula that goes largest hole possible with as much penetration as possible.
A wc bullet will cut its full diameter from the impact moment and will at least keep it while going through all the way.Just make sure it has enough ooomph to start with.Kind of a target load on steroids.

What I meant was use some sort of sight picture , I saw a fellow (LEO) point the gun at the ground and pull the trigger repeatedly , he was shooting way too low because he was in a hurry and not paying attention to sight / flash ... understandable when a badguy is shooting at you but ...shots in the dirt aren't going to end the fight ..
Flash sight , big sight , any sight picture will do better than blindly pulling trigger and hope you hit him .
If you are as good as Bill Jordan ... maybe you don't need sights or a flash ... I need something to steer by .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Thanks for the replies. Think I'll d a little more experimenting with non-expanding bullets like LSW and DEWC at around 700-800 fps and see where they hit. I think the ideal bullet has a big flat nose but slightly tapered for quicker reloads.

I reload .38 Special, but won't use reloads for carry. In my 642, my 158gr reloads were consistently shooting high by several inches at 7 yards. So were the Buffalo Bore 158gr +P thumpers I was using for carry. I got some Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P's, and they shot to POA. I immediately switched to them as my carry round. I want accuracy.

As a retired LEO, if you use reloaded ammunition for self defense and actually have to defend yourself, you will be crucified in court. I still carry the same manufacturer’s ammunition that I carried in the line of duty. Reload a similar load for practice and carry a well known manufacturer’s load for self defense.

I carry 125gr Gold Dots in my 360 usually. Sometimes 125gr Sig V-Crown or 140 gr Federal Barnes. I'd personally opt for a good HP over a solid for defense against 2 legged vermin. I'd just keep trying different loads until one agrees with your gun. Also while 2-5" at 7 yards does sound low, on a human size target at that distance what are you aiming at where 2-5" is going to result in a miss? Just food for thought...

Slower, point-of-aim rounds. Follow-up shots will be faster, and accuracy will always be king in a self defense shoot.

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Matthew 5:9