Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > Concealed Carry & Self Defense
o

Notices

Concealed Carry & Self Defense All aspects of Concealed and Open Carry, Home and Self Defense.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 02-01-2021, 11:18 PM
HOGSTR's Avatar
HOGSTR HOGSTR is offline
SWCA Member
Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ozark Highlands
Posts: 304
Likes: 44
Liked 229 Times in 61 Posts
Default

I am sincerely enjoying this thread. Keep them coming!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #102  
Old 02-02-2021, 03:42 AM
Krogen's Avatar
Krogen Krogen is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 2,889
Likes: 8,818
Liked 5,226 Times in 1,840 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Joe Clark View Post
I can't "like" this story, it makes me want to cry. My gut tightened up as I caught my breath. Even today these young, tough kids face death every day for us. When they are hit, they hurt, bleed, and die. And those of us who have been there, or not, feel the hurt almost as if it is our own sons and daughters.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
Leon, Thank you for posting. I read it several times. You said so eloquently in so very few words what I feel in my heart. I never could find the words to say it for myself. They are indeed our sons and daughters.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #103  
Old 02-02-2021, 07:40 AM
7shooter 7shooter is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: In the Cloud
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 2,252
Liked 1,872 Times in 582 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogen View Post
Leon, Thank you for posting. I read it several times. You said so eloquently in so very few words what I feel in my heart. I never could find the words to say it for myself. They are indeed our sons and daughters.
A Viet Nam veteran gave me a statue of the Three Soldiers which is near the Viet Nam Memorial in D C. It is inscribed “ Our Sons, Our Brothers , Our Friends “. It is in a glass container and is beside a beautiful wood replica of a Huey that another Viet Nam vet gave me.
They are on my fireplace mantel
__________________
I like Ike.

Last edited by 7shooter; 02-02-2021 at 07:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #104  
Old 02-02-2021, 07:46 AM
MP-5 MP-5 is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Texas
Posts: 242
Likes: 62
Liked 541 Times in 179 Posts
Default

This one?
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 02-02-2021, 07:53 AM
7shooter 7shooter is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: In the Cloud
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 2,252
Liked 1,872 Times in 582 Posts
Default

That is it. It can bring tears to me.
__________________
I like Ike.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #106  
Old 02-02-2021, 12:59 PM
Chief Wiggums Chief Wiggums is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 702
Likes: 386
Liked 1,189 Times in 467 Posts
Default

This thread (IMO) , is clearly the best on this board.
At the moment , I have nothing else to say , after reading the attached article....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #107  
Old 02-02-2021, 05:21 PM
Richard Simmons Richard Simmons is online now
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 8,064
Liked 2,994 Times in 883 Posts
Default

Thanks for posting the photos and stories. I enjoy them a great deal. My cousin, now deceased, served with MACV SOG RT North Carolina.
__________________
BCCI Life Member #2068
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #108  
Old 02-02-2021, 05:40 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

Several times I was able to hop a ride up to the big outdoor theater at Saigon, and once to a hanger show at Can Tho, the capital of the Delta region, IV Corps to the military. At the Saigon military theater, I was right alongside the entrance, and Jim Neighbors waved at us when he rode by, and Bob Hope was there with his Gold Digger Girls, I think Joey Heatherton was one of them. Bob had been doing USO shows in WWII and on. He was a real patriot to me.

Once, saw Sammy Davis Jr up close with his all girl troupe. I really respected him for taking time from his shows in Vegas to provide some stateside humor to us. These and others were all heroes to me.

From time to time, I would be up at our Province HQ, in Camau, a small US compound, where they had AC and a great club, movies every night, and wore civies. I was in their club one night, for a show with a group from somewhere. Their troupe manager had three shows they would provide, one, start with their clothes on, the next, take them off at the end of their show, and then one where the girls started their show with no clothing on at all.

If the stateside girlfriends and wives had any idea of all this....

Here is one of the Rat Pack himself, Sammy Davis Jr himself.

All the best, and stay safe... SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 02-02-2021, 08:24 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

Bet you can't determine which guy is up from a district team and which are the REMF's up at Province HQ.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 02-02-2021, 10:05 PM
geokeg geokeg is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Gig Harbor, Wa.
Posts: 35
Likes: 855
Liked 79 Times in 22 Posts
Default

SF VET, Sir you have an extraordinary string going here as mentioned by others. I have been looking forward to your entries each day with appreciation but no comments. Today you got me with "REMFS". Even I as a USAF guy knew that one. I was an airplane mechanic at Tan Son Nhut in 69-70. The other night brought back a memory from 69 with the picture of thhe C-119 Shadow gunship. I was on the flight line and witnessed the whole take off run, crash, and horrific fireball of "Shadow 76". I thought for sure all must have perished. I did some research and there were a couple of survivors. One of them wrote about the event. Amazing story and so many amazing Americans, as stated with the statue, "Our Sons, Our Bothers, Our Friends". God Bless them all!
Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
  #111  
Old 02-02-2021, 10:31 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

Well, the moderators haven't yet shut me down, so more:

I was actually quite content to spend six months on this compound. I was living in a far higher standard than everyone else, excepting the Vietnamese District LTC, a superb officer, spoke fluent English, had done training in the US. He lived in the other haft of our metal building, occasionally his wife and kids would come down for a visit. Partly, I think, I was almost happy was because no one was telling me anything I had to do, I could do what and how I wanted. SFC Tom C and I made a good pair.

We had a young Vietnamese war widow as our cook and housekeeper. One day, I came back from an op, and she was washing our dinner, a big fish in the polluted water of our moat. So I told her to give the fish to someone else, and we would eat issue rations for dinner. This is the only entrance into the compound, thru multiple wire lines, across a small PSP bridge into the compound. A sweet and loyal Cambodian solder and his family lived in the mud hovel to the right. Once, one of his children had miserable skin infections, so I washed her in some Issue Antibacterial soap, and in a few days she was well again.

One day, way out, a young child was introduced to me, he was named John. I inquire why he had such a Western name, and was told an American medic had delivered him at a very difficult birth, and the medic's name was John.

All the best, and stay safe, SF VET
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 02-03-2021, 12:36 AM
REM 3200's Avatar
REM 3200 REM 3200 is offline
US Veteran
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 9,101
Liked 3,216 Times in 1,123 Posts
Default

One of my best friends in the Army served in the Delta at Dong Tam.
He was with the 3rd Surgical Hospital. I later worked for him in Germany
while he was The IG of 7th MEDCOM, I served as one of the Asst. IGs on the Inspection Team.
We still e-mail each other every day. Just one heck of a good guy and close friend.
__________________
CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #113  
Old 02-03-2021, 09:12 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

As I recall, I once visited Dong Tam, and a lot of PBR's were based there. I don't have any digitalized pics though to post for your memories, REM.

PBR's ie, the Brown Water Navy, were really cool jet boats. Lots of firepower too. I will try to look up a pic of one. One of my college fraternity brothers was awarded a CMH for his actions aboard a PBR one night. Lost a foot in the encounter. Later Gov of Nebraska and dated Debra Winger, a worthy encounter too in my opinion.

Let me see what I have about them.

All the best, and stay safe.. SF VET
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #114  
Old 02-03-2021, 09:55 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

a few minutes before I boarded a plane at Travis AFB fly to Vietnam, I called my wife, and she told me she had been in an affair with an Army Doctor, unknown to me, and would now be living with him. I hung up and completely put all thoughts of her totally, totally out of my mind, something I must have thought necessary for my upcoming Infantry year in Vietnam. I did not confront that 'till years later.

But when I was living among the Vietnamese, I really liked their children. I have been all over the world, in some pretty troubled and conflicted places, and yet children seem to find happiness and playfulness no matter what. Maybe they just don't know any better.

Anyway, I sorely missed my 3 year old son, and transferred some of that love and affection to the children all around me. Here is the wait staff at the small compound cafe, where I would have a Ramen lunch daily, often with a beer 33, with debris filled ice, or just warm beer. The girls would pour boiling water over the noodles, and stir in some pork and spices and it was really good. Plus some Nuc Mam sauce to heat it up a bit.

The children had nothing to play with, so I had my parents send me a bag of plastic rings and toy necklaces and I gave them to the girls, and they must have thought they finally actually had jewelry. It was the first inkling that after this experience, I wanted to somehow devote my life to helping children, and began to try to find a way to do that. I ended up practicing pediatrics all over the world for nearly 40 years, in addition to being an army physician, and flight surgeon.

The girl on the far left is My, an orphan, who still played and smiled as she had no idea of her circumstances. Sweet children. No matter the mud, their parents somehow managed to keep them in spotless white clothing.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 02-03-2021, 11:29 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

This is a pic of the Cambodian soldier's family, all lining up for my match-needle Pentax. The wall of his family abode is used 105 howitzer cases, made out of some sort of worthless cardboard or the like. Dad was a very small man, no more than just over 5 feet tall I guess. But obviously loved his kids, and doted on them. I had cured one of them of skin empetigo with my special soap. Again, how they kept their kids so spotless in all that mud still amazes me.

Once, the battery of 105's in the compound received a barge load of ammunition for the incoming gun crews, and found that the shells were cases of real brass, worth a lot of money on the scrap market. So that night, they fired off the whole barge load, just blasting away to use it up, and in the morning, loaded the spent valuable brass cases back onto the barge, and headed back up to Camau, up the river a few hours.

Since the gun was just outside our own hootch, its may be part of the reason I have a VA hearing disability, and wear issue hearing aids.

Such cute and happy kids.

All the best, and stay safe... SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 02-03-2021, 11:37 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

A I previously mentioned, I sent my slide film back to a stateside Kodak lab in those little mailers, and never saw any of my pics until I returned, and bought a projector. I just hoped that they were properly exposed and not blurry. Glad I shot Kodachrome, as the Ectachrome 160 I sometimes had have faded a bit. K'chrome if not exposed to sustained light, stays perfect "forever." I was trying to learn about photography shutter speeds and aperture and such. But had no idea how it was all working out.

Here, My and her best friend. Smiles always.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 02-03-2021, 01:55 PM
16thVACav 16thVACav is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,843
Likes: 7,191
Liked 8,697 Times in 3,103 Posts
Default

Great pictures and stories - keep posting!
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 02-03-2021, 06:24 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default The Three Legged Dog

well, the compound dog really did have four legs, but he gimped around on three of them. Nobody claimed the dog, he was just there, lazing around the compound, snatching whatever food he could grab. He was the only dog I saw in the Delta, too much water for them I guess.

I hated that dog. I think whatever repressed anger or hurt I was subconsciously feeling was focused on that miserable, mangy beast. No one in the compound seemed to feed him, or take care of him.

I don't think that dog ever wandered out of the compound, either.

One day, I was walking around the compound, and some soldiers were squatting by a ammo case, hacking some duck apart for their dinner. They ate every part of a duck, excepting the feathers. Feet, head, guts, all of the duck would be set to boil.

As I was casually gazing that way, the dog went to grab some of the duck, and one of the soldiers whacked the dog with his cleaver, and in a moment, he just hacked the dog apart, and they brought out a bigger pot, and the dog went into it, as soon as his hide was off.

I never saw any other dog eaten, and I sure didn't want any of that hatred dog. Here, the dog in his happier days. Note the girl trying to spear a small fish in the polluted moat water, and now spotless the kids are. Note also the RPG wire around the bunker, hopefully it would catch the fins of an RPG.

When I got back to the Land Of The Big PX, I just couldn't eat American food, just couldn't bring myself to swallow it, after mostly rice and fish and duck.

all the best, and stay safe.... SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #119  
Old 02-03-2021, 06:44 PM
Ziggy2525's Avatar
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 624
Liked 3,247 Times in 1,007 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SF VET View Post
well, the compound dog really did have four legs, but he gimped around on three of them. Nobody claimed the dog, he was just there, lazing around the compound, snatching whatever food he could grab. He was the only dog I saw in the Delta, too much water for them I guess.

I hated that dog. I think whatever repressed anger or hurt I was subconsciously feeling was focused on that miserable, mangy beast. No one in the compound seemed to feed him, or take care of him.

I don't think that dog ever wandered out of the compound, either.

One day, I was walking around the compound, and some soldiers were squatting by a ammo case, hacking some duck apart for their dinner. They ate every part of a duck, excepting the feathers. Feet, head, guts, all of the duck would be set to boil.

As I was casually gazing that way, the dog went to grab some of the duck, and one of the soldiers whacked the dog with his cleaver, and in a moment, he just hacked the dog apart, and they brought out a bigger pot, and the dog went into it, as soon as his hide was off.

I never saw any other dog eaten, and I sure didn't want any of that hatred dog. Here, the dog in his happier days. Note the girl trying to spear a small fish in the polluted moat water, and now spotless the kids are. Note also the RPG wire around the bunker, hopefully it would catch the fins of an RPG.

When I got back to the Land Of The Big PX, I just couldn't eat American food, just couldn't bring myself to swallow it, after mostly rice and fish and duck.

all the best, and stay safe.... SF VET
Sort of a tropical medicine question. Always been curious about guys in Vietnam that were living semi-native. While you were there and when you got back to the states, did you have any issues with things like giardia or other types of intestinal parasites from eating local village food. Seems like the conditions would be ripe for that type of infection.
__________________
Vegan by proxy.

Last edited by Ziggy2525; 02-03-2021 at 06:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #120  
Old 02-03-2021, 06:47 PM
Kinman's Avatar
Kinman Kinman is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spokantucky
Posts: 4,098
Likes: 10,349
Liked 6,901 Times in 2,335 Posts
Default

Thanks for the trip down memory lane...It never ceased to amaze me how the Vietnamese mothers would maintain the sense of family no matter how rough it was. I remember being brought to tears one morning watching a young mother give her young children a morning bath, followed by washing her lovely long black hair, wringing it out. I also remember how tough the "slicky boys" were, one little guy selling me a fistful of cocoanut popsickles, getting beaten up for the money by another boy who then got beat by another older kid...tough. Came home and watched local "tough guys" that must have been sixteen and told one of them that a twelve year old Vietnamese kid could eat his lunch and send him home crying to his mommy.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #121  
Old 02-03-2021, 07:55 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default CPT Gregg Hollinger, MiA

CPT Hollinger I were in the same MACV advisor school at Bragg, NC for three months. I was prepping for my first tour, after 18 months in the 3d ID Germany, as a mech platoon leader and CO.

Gregg was going back for a second tour. I met his wife and two young daughters, and as it were, we went over on the same plane to Tan San Nhut, for about 5 days of in-country briefing. Got our patches and name tags sewn on our jungle fatigues, and were issued a .45 and an M16.

We hopped on a truck to take us and a few other officers out to the airbase, where some SGT with a clipboard said to us "... .you, go noth, you, to III Corps, and pointed to me and said, you, hitch a ride south."

Gregg and I shook hands, and vowed to keep in touch; he was going way north, to I Corps, and we would meet up at the base Officer's Club in a few months and share stories. That would have been late Oct.

This is CPT Gregg Hollinger's MiA report.

All I can say more is he is the reason I fly my flag every day, and have a POW/MIA sticker on my car's rear bumper.

I hope Gregg's wife and daughters long ago came to have peace in their hearts for their husband and dad.

Farwell, Gregg.

Service Member Profile

SF VET
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #122  
Old 02-04-2021, 10:20 AM
Drm50 Drm50 is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Monroe cnty. Ohio
Posts: 6,923
Likes: 4,410
Liked 10,022 Times in 3,676 Posts
Default

Each section had a conex at HQ to store personal possessions.
Key for lock was with the Supply Sargent. Seemed like every time we would get some good souvenir type stuff and stash it in conex it would get broke into. Especially at Chu Lai.
I forget where this picture was at, we got stuck several times pulling guard on Cobras while they were on ground, at night.
You can see the butt end of our 40mms in lower left of pic.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg A29A020E-8C92-4F12-8B3D-69F432F5F2C6.jpg (50.2 KB, 304 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #123  
Old 02-04-2021, 12:29 PM
ron_c's Avatar
ron_c ron_c is offline
US Veteran
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 207
Likes: 274
Liked 785 Times in 181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SF VET View Post
a few minutes before I boarded a plane at Travis AFB fly to Vietnam, I called my wife, and she told me she had been in an affair with an Army Doctor, unknown to me, and would now be living with him. I hung up and completely put all thoughts of her totally, totally out of my mind, something I must have thought necessary for my upcoming Infantry year in Vietnam. I did not confront that 'till years later.

This may be cold or heartless, but it really was better for someone going to VietNam not to have a girlfriend/wife. You had enough to worry about without wondering what was going on back home. Some guys handled this better than others.

In my 5th month in country, we had 2 new FNG's come to our unit. Both were 18. One made made the mistake of saying that he had gotten married just before coming to VietNam. Some guys ridiculed this guy every chance they got, telling him that she was probably home right now with someone else, she probably only married him for the GI insurance in case something happened to him. Things like that.

I tried telling him don't listen to them they're just trying to get under your skin and to just laugh it off, otherwise they will keep it up. He had only been in the unit for about a month and one night while on guard duty, he "accidentally" shot himself in the foot.

After being treated and sent home, we found out weeks later from his friend that came in country with him that she indeed was with someone else and divorced him. He messed his foot up so bad, he would probably have a limp for the rest of his life.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #124  
Old 02-04-2021, 01:27 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

As for coming down with some sort of "tropical' illness, the only thing I had to seek care for after my return was for a depigmenting skin condition caused by some sort of micro parasite or fungus in water, called Tinea Verisicolor, which is cured by bathing with something like Selsun or the like. I never once had any sort of GI problem, not once.

When I talked to my wife of 4 years from Travis AFB, I had no idea of all this, men can be so blind. Burt when I sat down in my seat, and looked out at the setting sun, some sort of internal, innate survival mode kicked in, and I put all thoughts of that out of my mind, and it really was kind of liberating to not have to worry about my own safety on behalf of a family back home.

Repression of awful occurrences can be very essential sometimes. But eventually, it is necessary to deal with it.

Once, went up to Saigon with another officer, married, and coming back he felt awful for his dalliance in the city. I told him to forget it, it didn't matter, nothing like that matters in war. Just get yourself home safely.

When I was at Bragg in the 5th SF Group, quite a few of the enlisted troops had two families. They would rotate back and forth to the same Vietnamese compound or city, and have a "wife" and children, and have another wife and kids back at Bragg.

Just one of those things that unusual circumstances cause.

All the best, and stay safe, SF VET
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #125  
Old 02-05-2021, 09:02 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

This is two decades later, way out in the Desert, early spring '91. By then I was a physician, and Chief of Staff of the busiest military hospital in that war. Our EVAC provided care for over 35 Thousand patients in that time, which is hard to believe, sometimes 500 or more a day, many at the nearby POW camp.

I took my trusty Pentax with me, and at some point, will post pics and adventures in that war. I had gone over as part of a small advance party for our EVAC hospital, and was issued a 1911, which was near impossible to keep from rusting, and turned it in the the unit armorer as soon as I could.

This is a pic of General Franks, note the 3 stars, who visited our EVAC, with his non-concealed Baretta 92 and with a better mustache than mine. He had lost a leg in Vietnam, so was extremely interested in what we were doing. I am most proud of the fact that no American who arrived at our hospital with a heartbeat died.

A whole nuther thread for another time.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET

[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 02-05-2021, 12:51 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

SFC Tom C and I had a "handyman", Pop to us, he had worked for the French and eventually the Americans, we never asked him much about what earlier times were like. He is the chap who ate our cat. I don't think there was much to do once we got our indoor "hootch" built, nor how much we paid him. For all I know maybe he was a VC Spy.

I loaded up some 125 plated Extremes over 4.0 and 4.2 of HP38 last night, just got the rest of a die set to make my first revolver rounds. I can't recall really ever shooting any revolvers, this is the mint 28-2 four inch pistol I bought recently. I have an El Paso Saddlery rig coming one of these days.

Handling a revolver is sure different than a 1911 or High Power or H&K. I'll get the hang of it. Made a small adjustment to the rear sight to bring the impact up a tad.

So here is Pop, who relished cats. .

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 02-05-2021, 01:03 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

This is the 28-2 I picked up for $700 a month ago, seems scarcely shot and unmarred as far as I can tell. Has what I think are "target" grips, which is good because I have big hands. Nice pistol, wish I had "gotten" into S&W's years ago.

Stay safe, and all the best.... SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 02-05-2021, 01:52 PM
Old_Cop Old_Cop is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Crawford County PA
Posts: 3,703
Likes: 4,367
Liked 6,709 Times in 2,417 Posts
Default

I greatly enjoy your photos and memories.
__________________
Made it, Ma! Top of the world!
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 02-05-2021, 03:40 PM
photoman's Avatar
photoman photoman is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Great State of Texas
Posts: 5,056
Likes: 522
Liked 1,907 Times in 787 Posts
Default

Excellent pics. I'm still trying to get over Kodachrome going t.u.

Who did the scans? They did a great job.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SF VET View Post
about every two months or so, I would hitchhike up to Saigon, my pay was always messed up, had to square that away when I DROS'ed back to Bragg after my tour. Make a PX run, and walk back to the airbase and see who and what was heading south. Usually, some aircraft was about to go to Can Tho, in the Delta, and from there I would see when any choppers were heading further south. Typically, some sort of supply UH would drop me off at my own Vietnamese compound. I have a great selection of aircraft pics, this one I think is an OV10, but the AF guys here can correct me if incorrect. I think this Bad Boy looks like some sort of terrible insect. Off to the side of the airbase was a big pile of wrecked aircraft.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET
__________________
Centennial Every Day
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #130  
Old 02-05-2021, 03:54 PM
153's Avatar
153 153 is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 905
Likes: 1,356
Liked 2,347 Times in 461 Posts
Default

Just to help keep this wonderful thread on track ... here is a picture of a snubby.

This and the thread about the “Penultimate .357 in Mexico“ are the best I’ve read in over 10 years on this forum!

Thank You SF VET!

Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 02-05-2021, 10:40 PM
Double-O-Dave Double-O-Dave is offline
US Veteran
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 4,162
Likes: 341
Liked 3,944 Times in 1,494 Posts
Default

I had a boss who was a (5th SF?) veteran during Viet Nam. He had a favorite saying that something - usually deadly, or potentially so, was a "bad piece of change". 'Nuff said. I think the photo of your snobby would well qualify as a "bad piece of change".

Welcome home. Thank you for your service and your safe return.

Regards,


Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by 153 View Post
Just to help keep this wonderful thread on track ... here is a picture of a snubby.

This and the thread about the “Penultimate .357 in Mexico“ are the best I’ve read in over 10 years on this forum!

Thank You SF VET!

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #132  
Old 02-06-2021, 12:16 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

After 18 months in Schweinfurt and Kitzingen, I returned to Bragg for 3 months of Advisor School and Vietnamese. I met another CPT who went back to Italy to buy a Ferrari and brought back a 275 Long Nose 4 cam GTB. His red (of course) Ferrari sat in the rain at our BOQ with my '71 VW Squareback. He told me every used Ferrari in Italy had been owned by Gina Lollabridgida, at least that's what the salesmen said.

We happened to be posted to Advisory Team 80, in the Delta, at Cau Lan, next to the Plain of Reeds. When I was sent south from Tan San Nhut, I hopped a ride on a C7 Caribou, which dropped me off at a deserted small airstrip. I stood there with my gear, wondering what to do now, but later a jeep drove up to pick me up and take me to the US compound.

I dropped off my gear, and wandered over to the TOC to introduce myself, and about the time I walked in, a tremendous gunfire and explosions echoed from the small city, and when I asked the S3 what was happening, he told me a Vietnamese Ranger unit was passing thru, and got in a fight with the local troops over some girl and were shooting it out. The Rangers were asking for an American airstrike on the local troops. The S3 said he wasn't getting involved in the mess.

A few hours later, the Rangers moved on, and I wandered over to see what had happened, and found the local troops were gathering up their dead.

This is a pic with my just purchased Olympus Pen F, a small half frame camera I had just bought and shot a few pics; this is one of me with one of the local unit's jeeps. All spiffy in my fresh unfaded fatigues. I had been at my first place of duty all of a few hours. I thought my year In Country was probably going to be quite interesting. Indeed, it was to be so.

My Ferrari friend soon had a positive skin test for TB, and was sent stateside.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 02-06-2021, 12:26 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default Kahn's Death

By the time I was done with my first six months in Kein Phong Province as a Mobill Advisor Team Leader, ie a MAT leader, HQ offered me a job up in HQ, which was the usual next step. But I was living on 10 bucks a month, and was already planning how to someday, when my four year commitment as a Distinguished Military Graduate, (DMG) and a Regular Army officer out of the ROTC program at Nebraska was up, I declined an out-of-country R&R, and also an in-country at Vung Tau or China Beach. Besides, other officers who I know went to Bangkok came back with Gold Dog tags and a case of "a social disease", and I needed neither. Never did take any R&R.
So they agreed to send me way south, down past Camau, to a 2-3 man District team.

I worked with two Vietnamese interpreters, both fluent in English. They did not live in our hootch. Son, whose family had fled south from North Vietnam in the great migration, was a level-headed soldier, easy going, good sense of humor, and really liked the ladies. In fact, before I arrived he had been awarded a Bronze Star for saving a US team when they were overrun.

Son back in '68 had been on the helicopter that rescued Nick Rowe, who had been captured in '63 and never sent north. Rocky Versace was captured too, died rather than submit, and was later awarded the CMH. Rowe wrote the book "Five Years To Freedom", and many years later was as assassinated in the PH; they finally killed him. Son told me the helicopter did not gun Rowe because Rowe had a beard, and that when they pulled Rowe onto the helicopter, Rowe could not speak, and could not talk in English at all.

Kahn the other interpreter was much more "high-strung" and emotional. One day the three of us walked down to our Whaler on the river, and when we got to our boat, I told Kahn to go back and get our gas can. Kahn argued, threw a fit, so I told him "just go get the gas, so we can get going.

Kahn continued to rant and rave and protest, so about the fifth time, I said "..I am going to give you a direct order to get the gas and if you refuse, I will send you back to your Vietnamese unit and that will be bad for you."

When he still refused, I sent him immediately back to the compound, and just a few days later, Kahn was on a local op, and stepped on a mine, and blew of his legs, and died in the mud of a rice paddy.

Kahn's dream was to someday have a small motorcycle repair shop. If only he had gone back and gotten the gas can.....

Here is a pic of Son, off to see a girlfriend up in Can Tho. As far as I could tell, Son had girlfriends just about everywhere we went. Note RPG wire on the bunker.
All the best, and stay safe.. SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 02-06-2021, 12:57 PM
44specialfan 44specialfan is offline
SWCA Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado Front Range
Posts: 280
Likes: 747
Liked 243 Times in 81 Posts
Default

SF VET ... I’m yet one more admirer of your stories and the associated comments. From your telling of the incident, Kahn’s repeated behavior sounds really alarming to me, i.e., is he aware of some hidden danger behind you or what? That obviously didn’t turn out to be the case thank God for all involved. I would love to have heard more of Son’s recollections regarding Nick Rowe who I had a brief encounter with at Holabird many years ago. A very courageous and brave soldier. May he Rest In Peace.

COL James Nicholas “Nick” Rowe (1938-1989) - Find A Grave Memorial
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #135  
Old 02-06-2021, 02:09 PM
LoboGunLeather's Avatar
LoboGunLeather LoboGunLeather is offline
US Veteran
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,518
Likes: 19,273
Liked 32,340 Times in 5,474 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SF VET View Post
By the time I was done with my first six months in Kein Phong Province as a Mobill Advisor Team Leader, ie a MAT leader, HQ offered me a job up in HQ, which was the usual next step. But I was living on 10 bucks a month, and was already planning how to someday, when my four year commitment as a Distinguished Military Graduate, (DMG) and a Regular Army officer out of the ROTC program at Nebraska was up, I declined an out-of-country R&R, and also an in-country at Vung Tau or China Beach. Besides, other officers who I know went to Bangkok came back with Gold Dog tags and a case of "a social disease", and I needed neither. Never did take any R&R.
So they agreed to send me way south, down past Camau, to a 2-3 man District team.

I worked with two Vietnamese interpreters, both fluent in English. They did not live in our hootch. Son, whose family had fled south from North Vietnam in the great migration, was a level-headed soldier, easy going, good sense of humor, and really liked the ladies. In fact, before I arrived he had been awarded a Bronze Star for saving a US team when they were overrun.

Son back in '68 had been on the helicopter that rescued Nick Rowe, who had been captured in '63 and never sent north. Rocky Versace was captured too, died rather than submit, and was later awarded the CMH. Rowe wrote the book "Five Years To Freedom", and many years later was as assassinated in the PH; they finally killed him. Son told me the helicopter did not gun Rowe because Rowe had a beard, and that when they pulled Rowe onto the helicopter, Rowe could not speak, and could not talk in English at all.

Kahn the other interpreter was much more "high-strung" and emotional. One day the three of us walked down to our Whaler on the river, and when we got to our boat, I told Kahn to go back and get our gas can. Kahn argued, threw a fit, so I told him "just go get the gas, so we can get going.

Kahn continued to rant and rave and protest, so about the fifth time, I said "..I am going to give you a direct order to get the gas and if you refuse, I will send you back to your Vietnamese unit and that will be bad for you."

When he still refused, I sent him immediately back to the compound, and just a few days later, Kahn was on a local op, and stepped on a mine, and blew of his legs, and died in the mud of a rice paddy.

Kahn's dream was to someday have a small motorcycle repair shop. If only he had gone back and gotten the gas can.....

Here is a pic of Son, off to see a girlfriend up in Can Tho. As far as I could tell, Son had girlfriends just about everywhere we went. Note RPG wire on the bunker.
All the best, and stay safe.. SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
For those unfamiliar with the weapons and counter-tactics, RPG means Rocket Propelled Grenade. Man-portable shoulder-fired launcher, rocket motor delivers a high-explosive warhead (typically a shape charge designed to punch a hole through armor or barricades, followed by a grenade through the hole). Very effective against vehicles or barricaded positions (such as bunkers). Effective range depends on the shooter, but typically about 200 meters, and may be launched in volleys at point or area targets from longer ranges.

The RPG warhead fired into a bunker is a devastating weapon with explosive force and shrapnel effect capable of great damage within an enclosed space.

RPG wire consisted of closely spaced grid of heavy-gauge wire intended to intercept the RPG warhead and cause detonation before impact on the intended target. Commonly used around exposed perimeter positions, command & control bunkers, aircraft revetments, fuel bladders, and other likely targets.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #136  
Old 02-06-2021, 02:13 PM
Drm50 Drm50 is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Monroe cnty. Ohio
Posts: 6,923
Likes: 4,410
Liked 10,022 Times in 3,676 Posts
Default

Another war story. I was greenie and COs pilot was to take me out to a FB to replace a guy DEROSing. It was the little Bell chopper. After getting flight instructions from pilot the next thing was short hop to fuel up. Pilot had me hold stick between seats. Told me not to move it or touch anything else. The blade was idling, he goes in office of fuel guys. Front on plywood shack is big plexiglass picture window. Pilot was in there with a coke telling stories. My arm and hand were getting tired. I was afraid wrong move would flip copter or worse. Finally pilot comes out and says, dumb *** you still holding that? I sweat bullets for 20 minutes for nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 02-06-2021, 02:27 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

My dad was a Naval Aviator from the late '30's to the early '70's. Once, way out over the Atlantic in a B25, the navigator came up between the pilot's seats, and his parachute deployed out the top hatch, but fused and streamered without fully opening, which would have pulled him out. But he was pulled up to the hatch, and was nearly asphyxiated by his harness. The crew worked hard to finally pull him into the cockpit. When they landed, the navigator was still woozy, and walked into the prop.

Like for Kahn, when your time is up, it is up.

All the best, and say safe. SF VET
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #138  
Old 02-07-2021, 09:15 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

In my first six months, mid-Delta, travel was by jeep for me. I had a M3 .45 Grease Gun, which was handy as it fit perfectly in the grab handle on the jeep's dash. It was a fairly "peaceful" province, but just south of Dinh Tung province, a very contested province. This Advisor post Had a Major, a CPT, who was back at Bragg two decades ago when I was posted there as a physician in the early '80's and a SSG. This compound was over-run one nite, and the US only survived by retreating to their inner bunker and running an endless belt of ammo thru their M60.

One day, two "Donut-Dollies" visited, and when one of them asked where our latrine was, we pointed to a vine covered tiny room in the corner of the US hootch. I had a bad experience with a Timber Rattler in the army and did and still hate and fear them. From time to time a pencil-thin vivid green snake, which I assumed to be venomous, would be in the vines in the laterine. So we cautioned her, and to this day I respect her willingness to use the latrine anyway.

Shortly after my visit, my CPT friend was directed by the Major, a man of low moral character, to accompany some Local troops on an op up some canal. They were ambushed, with some troops KIA, and my friend CPT came back so violently angry when he found the Major in the rack with the Vietnamese house girl, that he was going to kill the Major, and was only restrained by the US SSG there. When our local command heard about the incident, the Major was immediately removed and sent back to the States.

Unlike the Vietnamese troops down at my second post, these troops were lazy and worthless. Here, they are causally shooting interdiction, likely without any intelligence as to a reason for wasting ammo. I have no doubt tney were all deaf too.

I suspect they were killed soon thereafter.

All the best and stay safe.... SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 02-07-2021, 09:26 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

this is my jeep at Kien Van, the compound in the pic above. The US bunker right in front of the US hootch.

All the best, and stay safe... SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Like Post:
  #140  
Old 02-07-2021, 02:54 PM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
Banned
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: CA via TX, WY, AR
Posts: 587
Likes: 616
Liked 856 Times in 315 Posts
Default

I salute all who served in country!

I was in the first drug suppression unit formed on Okinawa 1972 so the people who shot at me wore the same uniform as I did.

After I was replaced by a Capt. in my slot in the Drug Suppression Unit, as I was on temporary assignment, my Brigade Commander had orders cut on me to go to Vietnam (he was mad about the work I did in the Drug unit) however my name was deleted off the orders by a Major at Brigade HQ. The Brigade CO was very unhappy but since he stayed drunk most of the time he never figured out what happened. Long story.

On bad days sometimes I wish I had gone in country and never came back.

Last edited by YkcorCal; 02-07-2021 at 03:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #141  
Old 02-08-2021, 10:49 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default George Dickel

The army had a duty post of 365 days "In-Country", but of course that was different for just about every one there. The Marines had a 13 month tour. 1972 was a Leap Year, so my tour was precisely 366 days, and I still chuckle that the Army got an extra day out of my tour.

When I returned to Bragg to be CO of ODA A/1/5, our company commander and first sgt, a Major and a SGM, were always drunk on George Dickel by the early afternoon. SF companies were organized like mini-battalions, with their own S1 thru S4, with appropriate ranks.

Life at Bragg then was pretty relaxed, sort of a Stateside R&R between rotations back to RVN. Us officers would show up about 9 am, wander over to the mess hall, for a leisurely breakfast, then show up at our company on Smoke Bomb Hill, long since razed. Maybe go swimming or shooting, we could draw whoever weapons we wanted and go shoot. An occasional training mission, with lots of time off for drinking and such.

The alcoholic CO and SGM were rotated out and our new CO was a Mormon, Maj C, who I highly respected and brought a cultural change in our Company.

In RVN, the sanitation and food hygiene and safety was non-existent for the local troops. For instanced, this is a pic inside the small compound at Kien Van, where this troop is fishing for dinner, right next to the latrine and hog pen. I can't imagine the parasites and worse they must have all had. This is the back of the US hootch. Concrete sand bags. The moms would bath them selves and their children in this incredibly polluted water.

US Americans didn't drink or eat this sort of disease ridden food and water. We did eat the local food, and drank a lot of beer, but ours was always thoroughly cooked or boiled. Mostly I lived on rice and cheap soy sauce, and Ramen with pork and peppers, and fish and duck. Once, a chopper dropped off some left over streaks, and we were so happy I took a pic of us with streaks. But when I got back stateside, it was awhile before I could eat the usual American food. We kept some rations around, but only for unusual circumstances.

Kein Van was later over-run as I previously posted.

Loaded up some 125 gr plated bullerts at 3.8 and 4.6 Win 231 last pm, and will shoot them later this AM to see if one is more accurate in my newly acquired 28-2, and go from there.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #142  
Old 02-08-2021, 01:08 PM
Robspeire Robspeire is offline
US Veteran
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 641
Likes: 1,987
Liked 1,217 Times in 390 Posts
Default

Thank you for your post's & service.
I remember my father & next door neighbor fixing a care package to send to his son who was in SF & in Viet Nam. They put a S&W 38 & ammo in an empty canned ham to send to him & re -welded it.. His last name was Morrisey. After his service he was on the show "What's my line" for riding a bike from NY to California.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #143  
Old 02-08-2021, 04:38 PM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

That B&W TV show was a long time ago. Dorothy KilGalen was one of the judges, and the host smoked like a chimney and was always taking about how his Chesterfields were the best.

When I was going to RVN, I made sure I was going MACV, as I had little confidence I could lead disgruntled US troops, with the reports of Fragging and rampant drug use I was hearing about. One of our BN's in Germany had a Lt killed, when he was in a jeep behind a tank on an exercise, and it backed over him. It was rumored to be because he was too tuff on his men.

If you want to read about what happens when a unit is stoned and has no guard, read about Firebase Maryanne.

Back then, about the only American unit with any pride was SF. Most of the SF troops on my team had legal records for assorted things, and on Sunday and Monday's I would go around to the little towns around Bragg and police them up from the local jails.

For awhile HQ assigned two troopers to my team who had been awarded the CMH, but sadly they were broken men, so I soon had to have our BN HQ take them back, which they did to take care of them.

Teams were very cohesive, and I carried what they did, ate with them, and sometimes pulled guard duty for them. When we would return from away missions, sometimes about then they would come down with symptoms of a Social Disease, and would ask me to put them on consecutive days or guard or other details, until their medical care would be working. Their wives or girlfriend would ask why their man had such duty, and I would just reply they had earned it for some obscure reason.

The army was very different at the end of that war.

All the best, ands stay safe. SF VET
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #144  
Old 02-08-2021, 07:44 PM
Ziggy2525's Avatar
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 624
Liked 3,247 Times in 1,007 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SF VET View Post
...
When I was going to RVN, I made sure I was going MACV, as I had little confidence I could lead disgruntled US troops, with the reports of Fragging and rampant drug use I was hearing about. One of our BN's in Germany had a Lt killed, when he was in a jeep behind a tank on an exercise, and it backed over him. It was rumored to be because he was too tuff on his men.
....
I was in Korea in '74 and '75. Most of the E-6's and E-7's in our unit had done multiple tours in Vietnam. A common theme among those older guys was that the Tet Offensive was a dividing point. The pre-Tet Army in Vietnam was a totally different organization than post-Tet. Pre-Tet, there was reasonable discipline and order. Post-Tet, it was a free-for-all.

Obviously not sure if that was everybody thought that way, but it was pretty universal with the older guys (AKA 35 years old ) that I was working with.
__________________
Vegan by proxy.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #145  
Old 02-08-2021, 08:23 PM
llowry61 llowry61 is offline
SWCA Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,494
Likes: 18,498
Liked 4,648 Times in 1,711 Posts
Default

SF Vet and all others who served, thank you for your sacrifice for our freedoms.

I have never seen another poster with a 10-1 like ratio. That tells you how interesting these posts have been. I have liked every one of them.

I can't imagine what the war was like. I am 59, so I was a kid watching it on TV and all of the mess that went along with it.

Please feel free to post as many additional stories and pictures as you see fit. It is nice to get glimpses into what really happened.

TY
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #146  
Old 02-09-2021, 01:27 AM
LoboGunLeather's Avatar
LoboGunLeather LoboGunLeather is offline
US Veteran
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,518
Likes: 19,273
Liked 32,340 Times in 5,474 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy2525 View Post
I was in Korea in '74 and '75. Most of the E-6's and E-7's in our unit had done multiple tours in Vietnam. A common theme among those older guys was that the Tet Offensive was a dividing point. The pre-Tet Army in Vietnam was a totally different organization than post-Tet. Pre-Tet, there was reasonable discipline and order. Post-Tet, it was a free-for-all.

Obviously not sure if that was everybody thought that way, but it was pretty universal with the older guys (AKA 35 years old ) that I was working with.
Where to start? Impossible to know for sure so I will just ramble on some more.

Tet '68 was the year before I arrived in Vietnam the first time. I was an enlisted man, later a very junior NCO, so I cannot claim to have vast knowledge of the plans, strategies, or anything else going on at the upper levels of Army administration. What I can comment on is what I saw and experienced as a grunt. Here it is:

Major combat operations were so unusual as to be considered rare events. Most units were maintained in fixed positions with security and force protection being a very high priority. There was a great deal of reluctance to actively engage or pursue contact. Pressures applied in Washington DC came down the chain of command and anything that might draw unwanted attention was to be avoided. Many truly ugly incidents were ignored, or swept under the rug to avoid drawing attention.

Disciplinary problems were very common, but strong command response was seldom seen. Unit commanders and staff officers went far out of their way to avoid excessive court martials or Article 15 actions because part of their evaluations included monitoring these incidents and comparing to all other units. No one wanted to be noticed because of any unusual patterns.

Drug abuse was also common. Marijuana was everywhere. Heroin was easily available. Both were dirt cheap. Most units had a facility for detox and drug intervention, both to prove that commanders were doing something about these problems, but also to provide an easy alternative to arrests and prosecutions.

I never saw anything like "fragging" or intentionally targeting officers or NCOs, but there were always stories about such incidents and more than a few "leaders" succumbed to fear or rumors, threats or trash talk. A conflict avoided was preferable to reports and investigations. Sometimes a serious disciplinary problem was handled by transfers. The FNG (a new replacement fresh from stateside training) was usually preferable to a transfer from another unit because we knew that the transfer might very well be someone else's problem child.

There was a very distinct and well-known policy of "ticket punching". Company-grade officers knew that a one-year tour might include 6 months of "command time" in a combat unit followed by a staff assignment. Field-grade officers (major, lt. col, colonel) rotated assignments to build their official record (think of it as a professional resume). West Point graduates (regular army officers) functioned much like a social club, looking after each others' professional assignments, performance reviews, etc. Reserve officers (mostly ROTC grads, occasionally former enlisted or officer candidate school grads) functioned on a different track, frequently relegated to positions or unit assignments that were less desired for those concerned with professional goals in the Army.

Many of our senior NCOs (E7 to E9) were coming to the end of their careers, and wanted nothing more than sliding peacefully into retirement without problems. Some were WW2 vets, many more were Korea vets, many years of Army experience and a network of "good old boys" taking care of their own.

Rather than a professional attitude of command responsibility, with the top people accountable for everything that happened within their spheres of influence, there was more of an attitude of assigning responsibility at the lowest possible levels (what we might think of today as "who can we throw under the bus"). While I was always taught that authority could be delegated but responsibility remained with the guy in charge, in actual practice this was frequently reversed.

In combat units promotions were usually very fast. With a constant stream of replacements for those completing tours and leaving, there were a lot of people promoted simply to fill a position on the TO&E chart (Table of Organization & Equipment). Being the senior private first class when a corporal went home just about guaranteed becoming the new corporal, and the same happened with sergeant positions (usually within company or battalion level promotional authority). For young officers a year as a second lieutenant usually meant promotion to first lieutenant, and another year resulted in a new captain.

To put that into better perspective, most soldiers of the period came to Vietnam at age 18 to 22 or so. Many sergeants were 19 to 21 (sergeant usually meant squad leader, responsible for 10 to 12 soldiers). Most new lieutenants were 21 to 23 or so (platoon leader, responsible for 35-plus soldiers). Many captains were 23 to 25 (company commander, responsible for 100 to 150 soldiers). Yes, there were exceptions, but I'm describing a common practice.

Promotions above sergeant E5 to staff sergeant E6 was usually under higher authority, typically done only for those likely to make a career in the Army (second enlistment or later). For officers everything above captain was also a career step, under Army-wide control, and regular army officers (West Point "ring knockers") held the inside track. Reserve commissions were usually considered only under special circumstances (not precluding political considerations).

In actual field operations such as combat patrols or outlying operational bases it was rather unusual to see any US personnel much over 25 years old. There was the occasional senior NCO (platoon sergeant E7, first sergeant E8), and we might see a major or lt. colonel once in a while, but I would not call that a common event (more likely an inspection visit or command briefing).

When I returned from Vietnam the first time I was a sergeant E5, and I was 19 years old. When I arrived the second time I was a 20-year old second tour veteran. After my last combat wound I was on restricted duty status and, not having anything for an infantry sergeant on light duty, I was assigned as NCOIC (non-commissioned officer in charge) of a military police detachment located on a forward operating base camp. I came home the second time in 1971, a little before my 21st birthday, not qualified to vote and unable to walk into a bar and order a drink.

It might not be entirely accurate to describe the situation as "babies leading babies", but I believe it was certainly one of very young people with minimal experience and training thrown into very stressful positions and having to deal with each day and each other without much close supervision or command involvement. I always knew, and accepted, that I was responsible for a dozen guys and whatever they did (or failed to do). I had no right to eat a meal until my people had been fed. Sleeping was not an option until I saw to it that my guys had whatever rest they needed.

The MP stuck on my record when I returned, and I was assigned as a military police patrol supervisor, then a provost marshal's investigator. Toward the end of 1972 I had a decision to make about staying in the Army. I was "on the list" for promotion to staff sergeant E6 and offered that as part of a re-enlistment package that included a 2-year unaccompanied tour (no family travel at government expense) in Germany. I chose to leave the Army and join the local police department.

By that time there was a lot of turmoil in the US. Anti-war demonstrations, riots, racial strife, armed radical groups, bombings of government buildings and police stations, the Symbionese Liberation Army (Patty Hearst), the Weather Underground, a Democrat National Convention that turned into an urban combat zone, the War on Drugs, and everything else seemed to be tearing our nation apart. In the Army it was considered a foregone conclusion that our involvement in Vietnam would end under public and international pressures, and a RIF (reduction in force) was underway. Early discharges for first-term enlisted personnel were common. Reserve officers were being released, and there was a scramble going on for those wishing to remain in the service to complete the necessary service for retirement benefits.

So, a little thumbnail sketch from my limited perspective. More rambling from another old veteran.
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 02-09-2021, 02:48 AM
Ziggy2525's Avatar
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 624
Liked 3,247 Times in 1,007 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
...
In combat units promotions were usually very fast. With a constant stream of replacements for those completing tours and leaving, there were a lot of people promoted simply to fill a position on the TO&E chart (Table of Organization & Equipment). Being the senior private first class when a corporal went home just about guaranteed becoming the new corporal, and the same happened with sergeant positions (usually within company or battalion level promotional authority). For young officers a year as a second lieutenant usually meant promotion to first lieutenant, and another year resulted in a new captain.

To put that into better perspective, most soldiers of the period came to Vietnam at age 18 to 22 or so. Many sergeants were 19 to 21 (sergeant usually meant squad leader, responsible for 10 to 12 soldiers). Most new lieutenants were 21 to 23 or so (platoon leader, responsible for 35-plus soldiers). Many captains were 23 to 25 (company commander, responsible for 100 to 150 soldiers). Yes, there were exceptions, but I'm describing a common practice.

Promotions above sergeant E5 to staff sergeant E6 was usually under higher authority, typically done only for those likely to make a career in the Army (second enlistment or later). For officers everything above captain was also a career step, under Army-wide control, and regular army officers (West Point "ring knockers") held the inside track. Reserve commissions were usually considered only under special circumstances (not precluding political considerations).
...
.
Fast promotions in non-combat units stateside too. At least until Jan ‘74. I enlisted in ‘73 as an 18 year old high school grad PVT E-1. Five months later I was an E-4. Pretty common. Expectation was E-5 at one year TIS, but in Jan ‘74 (IIRC) DOA made E-5 a managed rank. They changed the requirements for promotion to E-5 to three years TIS and one year remaining on enlistment. Stopped the fast promo’s to E-5.

In ‘75 and ‘76 I worked with a couple E-6’s that had went to OCS as NCO’s, made it to Captain, got RIF’d, and chose to revert back to their enlisted rank to serve out their time to retirement. They always seemed kind of resentful. Began a lot of their sentences with “When I was a Captain...” and “Back when I flew hueys...”
__________________
Vegan by proxy.

Last edited by Ziggy2525; 02-09-2021 at 03:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #148  
Old 02-09-2021, 08:36 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

When I graduated from Nebraska as a newly minted 2nd LT in '69, and then returned 4 and a half years later to my Alma Mater to begin the path to becoming a physician with the help of my GI bill, my only experience with the regular army was my 18 month tour in Germany. After infantry, airborne and Ranger school, in Germany I was fortunate to have a younger CPT as our Company Commander, who had been enlisted, then an OCS grad. He had been General DePuy's driver, that General being one of the highly respected officers of the WWII and Korea generation. I learned a lot from him. Having been an EM, he understood how miserable the life of young troopers was. He had also been shot in RVN 23 times. He had been wounded, and a sniper up in some tree just kept shooting him, and it was with great difficulty that he was finally able to get someone to shoot the sniper. The army (and the Navy) was fast disintegrating then, mostly due to drug use and racial strife, a reflection of America then.

For reflection, when the helicopter mission to rescue our Iranain hostages burned out in the desert, a small number of generals and admirals met and decided it was time to change and under their leadership our military began the long road to restoration from the wreckage of the damage done by Vietnam.

When I came back from Germany, I wanted to be as far away from the collapsing regular army as possible, and was able to do so until I resigned my RA commission to back to school. For the rest of my 30 year career, I was in and out of the army, and was Reserve and NG, in one position or another.

The Aviation pioneer and Tokyo raider Jimmy Doolitte wrote his autobiography and late in life when asked by an interviewer what he would do differently in another life, he replied, "...no, I could never be so lucky again." He was referring to his life long love of his wife.

When I too reflect on my own life, and my path, I marvel at how a little, much bullied kid who was such a lousy student could end up with such a career and life, and family. I could never be so lucky again. I thank God every day.

Just morning coffee, before I head out to a range to shoot.

All the best, and stay safe.... SF VET
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 02-09-2021, 09:02 AM
SF VET SF VET is offline
Member
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 299
Liked 5,743 Times in 531 Posts
Default

Imagine having one's pool or swimming hole no further than your front door. The interior "moat" of our compound was not connected to the nearby river, so there was no wash or cleansing of the incredibly polluted water just under the hovels of the compound's troops and families. It was sewer, kitchen, bath and swimming hole for the children and families of the compound. It was scummy and bubbling, with rotting rats and whatever else fell into it. And yet the parents let their kids bathe and swim in it. Occasionally I helped a child with skin impetigo, but the kids seems quite healthy and happy despite that so foul water. Perhaps growing up with such exposure to every sort of ailment builds up some sort of immunity. Maybe our own pioneers did likewise, excepting cholera.

Here the two smaller children are Cambodian, I don't know about the older girl.

I never ever used the moat water for anything.

Such happy children, who just played all day.

All the best and stay safe. SF VET
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 02-09-2021, 11:28 AM
Sistema1927's Avatar
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
US Veteran
Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam Snubby in Vietnam  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: "Land of Disenchantment"
Posts: 3,374
Likes: 3,918
Liked 9,072 Times in 2,497 Posts
Default

I entered the US Army on active duty in May 1980. Entered as a E-4 due to prior HS and college ROTC.

Morale in that post-Vietnam Army was low, very low, and it didn't help that equipment was aging and leadership at the top was lacking. Most Vietnam era NCOs were just trying to gut it out to retirement, and they lacked the motivation to really lead and train..

January 1981, and the inauguration of a new CoC saw things take a complete 180. Equipment began to be upgraded, morale shot up, training began in earnest, and the corner was turned from the post-Vietnam malaise to the beginning of a new fighting force. I made E-5 that year as well, putting on stripes in place of the Specialist patch.
__________________
Only a cold warrior
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
S&W In VietNam ? marine1970 S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 205 01-04-2024 06:01 PM
Vietnam Era jimmyj The Lounge 53 04-06-2018 11:04 PM
Vietnam Era S&W redlevel The Lounge 9 02-14-2017 12:37 AM
Value of M19-4 snubby and M36 (no dash) snubby h2so4 S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 7 01-23-2013 09:00 PM
MPs in Vietnam Coldshooter The Lounge 9 03-16-2012 12:17 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:21 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)