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  #1  
Old 08-24-2023, 11:46 PM
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Default Took my first holster draw training

Been shooting for over 40 years but never did a holster draw and shoot with a loaded gun.

Local indoor range gives classes and individualized instruction. Yesterday evening I took 3 hours of individual instruction. It was excellent but tiring. I qualified to draw and shoot at the range, but I have a lot of unloaded practice at home and hot practice at the range ahead of me.
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Old 08-25-2023, 06:23 AM
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Dry fire is your friend..and something everyone can afford
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Old 08-26-2023, 08:19 AM
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One reason I've always belonged to a private outdoor Club as well as an indoor Club is that many indoor Clubs do not let you draw loaded guns from holsters. I did my holster draw training outside and still do my practice there as well.
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Old 08-26-2023, 08:31 AM
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Learn to draw and fire at targets when I attended Marine Corps Security Force Battalion Schools (basically the same course as at Gun Site at the time). That was 1988. Then got into IPSC. To do it right takes a lot of trigger time. At Battalion Schools we fired 1000 rounds in a week minimum. The instructors were giving folks extra rounds and telling them to do the drill again. Wore the skin off our hands.
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Old 08-26-2023, 10:03 AM
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I’ve taken training as well as shoot IDPA and ASI regularly. IDPA shooting helps keep my draw training exercised. One aspect of IDPA is it normally requires you draw while wearing a cover garment.

Might be something you may want to consider
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Old 08-26-2023, 10:21 AM
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Get the draw form down first. THEN worry about working with a cover garment. DO NOT use a mirror, there isn't gonna be one in front of you on the street.

Did a lot of training and instructor schools. Can't recall any that taught the draw. You were pretty much left to figure that out yourself.

Couple of tips on motions to avoid:
1. Bowling for dollars-after the gun clears the holster, extend the arm fully and rotate it up to firing position.

2. The discus throw-after the gun clears the holster, it moves outward and sweeps up and around to firing position.

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Old 08-26-2023, 10:53 AM
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I like Bill Jordan's advice in his book, "No Second Place Winner". Like anything with handguns, I advise people to learn to crawl before you walk and then run. Fast draws are great to watch in Westerns and shooting games, but are overemphasized. As has already been suggested, one can learn to draw by using an empty handgun. Always visually check that it is empty and use a solid backstop (basements are good) without anyone else being present.
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Old 08-26-2023, 10:54 AM
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I used to work nights here. It's a propane storage facility that used to be out past the edge of town. The fence was a mile around and 90% of the property was undeveloped. When I worked nights out there I would walk around that fence line and practice a four-point draw all night long.

I never did it fast. I never tried to do a quick draw. I just went through the motions 1,2,3,4,3,2,1. I would be willing to bet that I did it a hundred times a night.

One night I was walking that fence line and I Disturbed something in the fields and it got up and ran past me and cleared the fence and took off. I always thought it was an antelope or deer. It could not possibly have been a human being because that fence was 8 ft tall and it cleared it in one shot. Anyway it wasn't till whatever it was cleared the fence that I realized that I had drawn my gun.
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Old 08-26-2023, 11:31 AM
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In '67 my older USAF buddies taught me to fast draw and fire.
Wax bullets, chaps, aluminum boot cover and Ruger Blackhawks were used.
Never had to draw when working in shaky boat yards at night, as the gun was in my hand, if I had to leave the boat and get stuff from the truck.
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Old 08-26-2023, 01:12 PM
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I never did it fast. I never tried to a quick draw. I just went through the motions 1,2,3,4,3,2,1. I would be willing to bet that I did it a hundred times a night.

.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. During my competition days, I saw plenty of shooters who did things fast, but looked a bit herky-jerky doing it. The shooter who was slower, but smooth, had the winning score.
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Old 08-26-2023, 02:19 PM
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Learn to draw and fire at targets when I attended Marine Corps Security Force Battalion Schools (basically the same course as at Gun Site at the time). That was 1988. Then got into IPSC. To do it right takes a lot of trigger time. At Battalion Schools we fired 1000 rounds in a week minimum. The instructors were giving folks extra rounds and telling them to do the drill again. Wore the skin off our hands.
We learned to draw and fire coming out of an M1916 holster. The flap had to be snapped down. We had 1.5 seconds to draw and fire two rounds from an M1911. This was done on command, so add reaction time in there. When I was teaching in the field, I drew and fired in about 9/10's of a second. Not bad for a 40 year old at the time. Faster that most of the 18-25 year old could do. Still have the rig, belt needs to be readjusted a bit.......
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Old 08-26-2023, 03:01 PM
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We learned to draw and fire coming out of an M1916 holster. The flap had to be snapped down. We had 1.5 seconds to draw and fire two rounds from an M1911. This was done on command, so add reaction time in there. When I was teaching in the field, I drew and fired in about 9/10's of a second. Not bad for a 40 year old at the time. Faster that most of the 18-25 year old could do. Still have the rig, belt needs to be readjusted a bit.......
Didn't military regulations state that a 1911 had to be in condition 4?
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Old 08-26-2023, 03:10 PM
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Didn't military regulations state that a 1911 had to be in condition 4?
Not for USMC Security Force Battalion Fleet Anti-Terrorist Security Teams (F.A.S.T. ) at the time. We carried Condition 1 all the time.
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Old 08-26-2023, 05:08 PM
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Didn't military regulations state that a 1911 had to be in condition 4?
1. I think you mean condition 3

2. I'm not familiar with any specific Army regulation requiring that a weapon be carried in condition 3. That would be up to the unit Commander's discretion
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Old 08-26-2023, 06:29 PM
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1. I think you mean condition 3

2. I'm not familiar with any specific Army regulation requiring that a weapon be carried in condition 3. That would be up to the unit Commander's discretion

At one time all Marine Sentries were required to carry their weapons' in Condition 4 (no round in the weapon). About mid 1987 the Commandant ordered all sentries to carry Condition 3 (a full mag in the weapon, but nothing in the chamber). The F.A.S.T. Companies were different, in that we were authorized to carry Condition 1 (cocked and locked). More intense and different training that the majority of the Corps.
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Old 08-26-2023, 07:59 PM
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Does that get in the way of snapping the flap?
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Old 08-26-2023, 08:37 PM
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1. I think you mean condition 3

2. I'm not familiar with any specific Army regulation requiring that a weapon be carried in condition 3. That would be up to the unit Commander's discretion
It may have been condition 3. I qualified with the 1911a1 at Infantry OCS. I know when I was issued a 1911a1 for a specific duty (pay officer comes to mind), the weapon was carried with an empty chamber and hammer down. Of course that is probably long before most of you served and way before the war on terror.
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Old 08-27-2023, 02:48 AM
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I carried a 1911A1 briefly during the 90's while stationed in Scotland (Navy). We got the training from Marine cadre who were probably trained the same way that AJ mentions above. Had lots of fun! Anyway, the 1916 holsters had no trouble closing over a Condition 1 1911. Our courses of fire started empty chamber, but continued in Condition 1. When on duty, we had three magazines with seven rounds apiece. In the 80's, shipboard watches I saw only had two mags of five apiece, and none in the gun, so things had improved a lot. The 1916 holster has got to be one of the fastest flap holsters around, but ours were very worn and constantly coming undone. I would not trust one by choice. Perhaps someone with experience of a new, quality repro of that holster come chime in here: are they more secure when new?
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Old 08-27-2023, 08:15 AM
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I carried a 1911A1 briefly during the 90's while stationed in Scotland (Navy). We got the training from Marine cadre who were probably trained the same way that AJ mentions above. Had lots of fun! Anyway, the 1916 holsters had no trouble closing over a Condition 1 1911. Our courses of fire started empty chamber, but continued in Condition 1. When on duty, we had three magazines with seven rounds apiece. In the 80's, shipboard watches I saw only had two mags of five apiece, and none in the gun, so things had improved a lot. The 1916 holster has got to be one of the fastest flap holsters around, but ours were very worn and constantly coming undone. I would not trust one by choice. Perhaps someone with experience of a new, quality repro of that holster come chime in here: are they more secure when new?
Yes, I was a Cadre and was assigned to Naval Station Long Beach as the senior Marine Cadre. I had been the Guard Chief at Naval Weapons Station Seal Beach just down the road.

Once you learn the proper way to draw from the 1916 holster it is a great holster. The hole that the flap stud goes into gets worn after a while and it comes open easier than when new. Still have mine that I wore in the Corps. Went to an FBI "Rangemasters" Course at Long Beach Police Department in 1988. All the cops were snickering at our "funny old gear" as they stood there in their high speed black gear. That was until our first string of fire. I had drawn, fired two shots and was back in the holster before any of them. The FBI agent Instructor came over and asked where had we learned to do that. He had been a Major in the Corps and never had seen that or been taught that.
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Old 08-27-2023, 09:06 AM
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One reason I've always belonged to a private outdoor Club as well as an indoor Club is that many indoor Clubs do not let you draw loaded guns from holsters. I did my holster draw training outside and still do my practice there as well.
+1. Outdoors I shoot Action Steel and some USPSA, and can also use the Action Areas to practice drawing and live fire. Indoors (at home) I practice CCW draw and dry fire with snap caps (dummy rounds).
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Old 08-27-2023, 04:59 PM
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Draw and shoot on the ranch every time I shoot.
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Old 08-27-2023, 05:03 PM
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Draw and shoot on the ranch every time I shoot.
Not everyone has that luxury.
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Old 08-28-2023, 09:47 PM
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I have the great luxury of a left-handed wife. We went for evening walks around the perimeter of the farm. We could hold hand and not interfere with our strong hands. We practiced a drawing drill, I took a step forward and drew, she turned to the left to face back and drew. We had done this hundreds of times when one night in the twilight a form appeared in front of us about 15 yards. By Instinct I went forward and drew. I felt her pivot left and then BAM! In front of me had been a doe deer that took off at Diane's shot! Behind us was a male skunk, made as anything and when she turned, she saw the white of the tail, was already bringing the sights up and fired. Usually, skunks don't spray when you shoot them before they start. And He didn't this time either, but they still leak all their bodily fluids in a short time. I buried him the next morning at about 0500, so the neighbor kids didn't mess around and stink!

What surprised me was how well the drills we did really worked. I had a compact form of 1911 with tritium sights, and before I thought about it the sights were on the deer, Then I realized it was a deer and didn't fire. The wife's Big Dot was right on the small, close and low target, and she said it was "Just Natural' to go ahead and fire.

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Old 09-25-2023, 04:01 PM
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I learned fast draw from Bill Jordan.. Drew and dry fired 10 times everyday before going on duty for 13 years.


I never came close to being as fast as Bill, but I was fast enough twice.
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Old 09-25-2023, 04:31 PM
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I learned fast draw from Bill Jordan.. Drew and dry fired 10 times everyday before going on duty for 13 years.


I never came close to being as fast as Bill, but I was fast enough twice.
I learned fast draw in the Corps as a member of a F.A.S.T. Company. I was taught how to teach it. I will only teach it to LEO's and the like. Don't want that knowledge on the street.
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Old 09-25-2023, 04:53 PM
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I got pretty quick back 50 years ago. At 80 years old, I'm only halfassed now.
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Old 09-25-2023, 04:58 PM
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I got pretty quick back 50 years ago. At 80 years old, I'm only halfassed now.
That may be, however you are still probably more accurate than most. My speed is down, but I still hit 99% of what I am aiming at with the first shot!
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Old 09-25-2023, 05:07 PM
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My wife and I belong to a membership required outdoor range, it's an hour drive each way but is worth it.

We take a couple classes a year and are able to practice everything we learn at our range. It has a 180° shooting available when others aren't on the ranges, which is 99% of the time we are there.

If you are able to move and shoot that is the best thing to practice.
Start with small SLOW side to side steps, increase speed as you gain confidence. Once you get that down, start forward and rearward small SLOW steps and like the side to side increase speed as you get better.

This is something most people don't think about until it's too late.
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Old 09-25-2023, 05:15 PM
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Shot PPC then USPSA and IDPA for close to 30 years..... Took a "Police Civilian Training Academy " with my wife [long story] where one night we got to experience a computerized shoot/no shoot simulator; with a loaner duty rig, laser gun with compressed air recoil...........

Afterwards Barbara said I should have seen the looks on the "classmates" faces.... :O ........ the chief came over and said "You've done this before right?"

I had no recollection of drawing, aiming.... fired 3 rounds.......... as he got off one round at my "computer partner"
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Old 09-25-2023, 05:26 PM
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If you are able to move and shoot that is the best thing to practice.
Start with small SLOW side to side steps, increase speed as you gain confidence. Once you get that down, start forward and rearward small SLOW steps and like the side to side increase speed as you get better.

This is something most people don't think about until it's too late.
I trained in all sorts of moving scenarios, some where we were moving and some where the targets were moving. One of the hardest was with LASO SEB. We ran up a hill for about 100 yards (in full gear, yes level 1 vests too). When we got to the 25 yard line had to start engaging targets as we moved down to the 7 yard line. Had to be in shape or you were huffing & puffing!! Sid Heal is who got me into this.....besides being LASO he was a Jarhead!
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Old 09-25-2023, 06:06 PM
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I trained in all sorts of moving scenarios, some where we were moving and some where the targets were moving. One of the hardest was with LASO SEB. We ran up a hill for about 100 yards (in full gear, yes level 1 vests too). When we got to the 25 yard line had to start engaging targets as we moved down to the 7 yard line. Had to be in shape or you were huffing & puffing!! Sid Heal is who got me into this.....besides being LASO he was a Jarhead!
That sounds like a great training scenario. I've not had any training with that much movement (100yds in full gear). That sounds like an interesting trainer.

I think the hardest I've done is moving backward out to 100yds in the rain (I need eye glasses to see at distance), while engaging targets the whole time. This was done at the speed of the students choice (not running). Avoiding tripping hazards was difficult due to the rain.
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Old 09-25-2023, 06:58 PM
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It may have been condition 3. I qualified with the 1911a1 at Infantry OCS. I know when I was issued a 1911a1 for a specific duty (pay officer comes to mind), the weapon was carried with an empty chamber and hammer down. Of course that is probably long before most of you served and way before the war on terror.
I actually had to report for pay one time in basic training
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Old 09-25-2023, 07:24 PM
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.. Sid Heal is who got me into this.....besides being LASO he was a Jarhead!
That's a big name to drop. Always impressive in TV documentaries I've seen.
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Old 09-25-2023, 07:46 PM
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That's a big name to drop. Always impressive in TV documentaries I've seen.
He was a USMCR WO on a training weekend at the pistol range when I meant him. Then he told me his day job after we talked a bit. Good people. Trained the NS Long Beach SWAT team with them. Set up a station wide exercise for security with Sid and the off duty SEB teams (he was the Gold Team Commander at the time). Everything from running the gates, coming over the fences, hostage drills and divers coming after the ships pier side for 24 hours. Great drill, drove home what I had been trying to teach to the Navy.

https://media.cleveland.com/pdextra/...Heal%20bio.pdf

Police tactical expert and educator Cmdr. Sid Heal dies
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Old 09-25-2023, 08:52 PM
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When I became a city cop, we went out to the city dump, each of us was issued a box of 38s. We fired 12 rounds, and the Sgt. handed us a badge and said “Congratulations, you’re a cop.”

We never fired another round as training during the 3 years I worked there.

Fortunately, I had been shooting revolvers since grade school, so I could get by.

Joined the highway patrol and got enough firearms training to eventually become the firearms training officer at the recruit academy.
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Old 09-26-2023, 07:58 AM
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When I became a city cop, we went out to the city dump, each of us was issued a box of 38s. We fired 12 rounds, and the Sgt. handed us a badge and said “Congratulations, you’re a cop.”

We never fired another round as training during the 3 years I worked there.

Fortunately, I had been shooting revolvers since grade school, so I could get by.

Joined the highway patrol and got enough firearms training to eventually become the firearms training officer at the recruit academy.
Believe it or not that **** still goes on. We just hired a kid that had been with a small department. The chief there took him out and had him shoot pop cans. Not even going to mention what he issued for less lethal.
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Old 09-26-2023, 12:11 PM
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You can get reasonably proficient drawing even out of a flap holster if you’ve ever been in a hostile environment. In fact it takes awhile to stop drawing the gun that you are no longer carrying when you are startled.High Noon situations are BS. I think drawing “deliberately” is a better method
than fastgun. All these practical courses seem to me they turn into impractical range games.
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Old 10-22-2023, 10:47 PM
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I have a rumble channel that I post short training videos to. I just did one on dry fire training, specifically a 1.5 second draw. I train live fire once a month (at least) and this video just goes over how I prepare to run a drill before I run it hot.
Maybe someone will find it useful maybe not. Keep the best and leave the rest.
Let’s Talk Dry Fire
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