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Old 02-14-2021, 03:32 AM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
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Post .44 Special +P Loads vs .44 Remington Magnum for Self Defense

.44 Special +P Loads vs .44 Remington Magnum for Self Defense

As someone who has a lot of experience shooting full bore .44 Magnum loads (for animal protection and hunting) but is interested in the self-defense aspects of carrying such a firearm as the S&W Performance Center 629 2.6" as a concealed carry arm the .44 Special +P loads or .44 Magnum loads specifically designed and loaded for self-defense against humans and not hunting animals is most interesting.

Loads such as Underwood's 200gr. coated wadcutter in a .44 Special +P loading at 1000FPS are very interesting indeed and I wish there was more data on it and gel tests. The same with Underwood's .44 Special +P loading 200 Grain Speer Gold Dot bullet at I believe 975FPS! I for one would really like to see extensive testing out of short barrels as to wound channels, and expansion for the hollow point but alas I can find no such tests or results online! Such a comparison between a non-expanding full wadcutter and one of the better reliable expanding HPs would be very enlightening for those that defensive carry especially out of short barrel .44 Magnum revolvers that can carry either .44 Special +P or .44 Magnum loads!

There is a definite need for the development of ammo specifically made for defensive carry in the above mentioned type of .44 Magnum revolvers as well as said revolvers having their cylinders cut for use with full moon clips and the chambers chamfered for for fast reloading in defensive situations as their .357 Magnum cousins are like the S&W Performance Center 627 8 shot 2.6" .357 Mag! Why not do the same for the S&W Performance Center 629 2.6" in .44 Mag???
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:49 AM
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I used to carry the Remington 44 Magnum midrange load in my model 29 for a duty gun in Detroit. If I remember properly, it chrono graphed at just around 900 fps with a conical 240gr bullet. It offered a faster second shot but in my opinion would have been a better bullet design had it been made with a sharp shoulder.
The second shot recoil/recovery issue is to be considered, especially in a large caliber loading.
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Old 02-14-2021, 08:44 AM
IrishFritz IrishFritz is offline
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I agree that there needs to be some thought put into 44 magnum revolvers for concealed carry and self defense. My first thought is that we value 44 mag because of the energy of the cartridge, so does it make sense to "detune" the load for combat? Won't it be better to choose a 357 in a strong frame revolver with a +P load and a good bullet such as a Speer Gold Dot 125?
My second thought is that a 29 is a big frame and cylinder revolver and its a bit heavy so its hard to comfortably conceal and carry versus a say a 686.
My third thought is to question the utility of short barrels given the velocity loss over a 4" barrel length.
My fourth thought is that the ability to handload is a great asset when building a self defense load.
Having said all of that, My carry gun is a 629 4" with 44 magnum 240 grain Keith semi-wadcutters cast relatively soft with a BHN of 10 and backed with 9.5 grains of Unique for just under 1100FPS.
I think this is a great topic and worthy of more discussion.

Last edited by IrishFritz; 02-14-2021 at 09:15 AM. Reason: correct my load information
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Old 02-14-2021, 08:58 AM
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...there used to be a load...the Speer .44 Magnum 200 grain Gold Dot HP...was rated at 1080 from a 4" barrel. It used the 200 grain bullet that is used in their slow-poke .44 Special load that doesn't expand reliably at all at 860 from 6.5" barrel... Apparently not enough .44 Magnum carriers knew about the round or bought it as Speer dropped it a few years ago.

Loading data for that bullet is in the Speer #14 Reloading Manual. When I had a 629 Mountain Gun I used 10.0 grains of W-231 to duplicate the load. I have a bunch of bullets left and am thinking about getting another 629 MG just to use them up with. Very controllable round and expands every time.

Just saw this yesterday on YouTube and was impressed with the performance of both the .38 and .44 rounds...


Heavy .44 Special Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

The .38 Special is basically a duplicate of the .38-44 loading but BB says it is safe in all MODERN .38 Special revolvers...even Js. MUCH better round than the vaulted FBI load...MUCH...

Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

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Old 02-14-2021, 09:13 AM
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As SM mentioned, Speer had a Gold Dot Short Barrel 44 Mag round, but discontinued it a couple of years ago. I was able to buy 10 boxes of it from Bud's when I bought my Model 69 2.75" for carrying. It recoils about the same as their Gold Dot 44 Special round, but it's louder. Perhaps Speer would respond to a letter writing campaign to bring them back?
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:25 AM
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Would be interesting to see what the actual velocity is from your 2.75" barrel of both the Magnum and Special loadings...

A friend had one of the PC 629 2.75" ported carry guns. He sent me pics of the .44 Special loading after hitting water...they didn't expand at all whereas the Magnum bullets expanded every time... He didn't have a chrono to test test them however.
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Old 02-14-2021, 10:08 AM
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Speer's 200 gn gdhp has been very accurate in every 44 sp or 44 mag tried. In 44 special, Speer's aluminum cased 200 gdhp is noticably faster than their high end nickel cased load, getting close to 900 fps from 3 in 696. As noted Speer's old 44 mag load with the 200 gdhp gets about 1070 fps from 4 in barrel.

For the 44 mag, very easy to make accurate and controllable vermin rounds. Faster powders work well with the 200 gdhp. Have a preference for 180 jhp @ 1250 from 4 in barrel, also easy to load for.
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Old 02-14-2021, 12:33 PM
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If I had to rely on my 629 for personal defense, I'd use my 240 grain hardcast SWC at about 1000 fps. Mild to shoot but will handle any thug. About 10 grains of a medium fast powder (AA#5, Unique) will get you there. Anything hotter or heavier is just excess.
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Old 02-14-2021, 12:39 PM
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I think you'd be more than well protected from two and some four legged predators with the .44 Specials from Speer or Underwoods LWC. Follow up shots with magnums used to be fun and fast for me but age takes it's toll as shooting is a perishable skill as I was once told.
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Old 02-14-2021, 12:42 PM
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Several years ago a friend of mine who carried a 629 as his police sidearm (he was often laughed at my his coworkers) loaded up some hot 44 special loads. We found little to no expansion when shooting some of them into water. I guess the bullets being designed for 44 magnum velocity, weren't getting enough out of the hot 44 special loads to open up effectively. I use the 44 special Gold Dots in my 69 as my nightstand gun, but I have no doubt they're designed for lower velocity.

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Old 02-14-2021, 12:57 PM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badge View Post
I think you'd be more than well protected from two and some four legged predators with the .44 Specials from Speer or Underwoods LWC. Follow up shots with magnums used to be fun and fast for me but age takes it's toll as shooting is a perishable skill as I was once told.

Ah, yes, as the Underwood .44 Special loaded 200gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point Self Defense Ammo uses the Speer Gold Dot loaded hotter than Speer did to 975fps though the test barrel length is not stated.
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Old 02-14-2021, 01:18 PM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
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There is no such thing as a magic bullet of any caliber or any loading though we can always strive to achieve the most reliable expanding, yet good penetrating and least liable to clog hollow points so they remain inside the bad guy to do their intended duty.

I have never owned or used a .357 Magnum though I have had friends that have. My major concerns with the .357 are the high muzzle blast to get it up to speed to really do its business especially out of a S&W Performance Center 627 2.6" which is what I would want for my purposes. The longer barreled .357 Mag. has long ago established its stopping power reputation on the streets so there is no question about that. I am just not sure a short barreled .357 Magnum is right for ME as that muzzle blast really bothers me when I have been around it out of snubbies. That is why for me personally I gravitate toward rounds like the Underwood .44 Special +P out of a .44 Magnum short barrel gun. Since I personally just have more experience shooting a .44 magnum even with full power loads it is only natural for me to consider the caliber for social work with rounds suitable to the work.

If someone shoots and handles a .357 Magnum snub nose with accuracy and confidence then that is a great choice for them just not for me personally.

I wish Lucky Gunner Labs would do their testing especially on the .44 Special +P self Defense Loadings out of 2.5" bbl. and 4" revolvers as I believe there is enough interest in the results compared.

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Old 02-14-2021, 01:23 PM
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A 44 or 45 that does not expand is as big as a 38 or 357 that does.
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Old 02-14-2021, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMan View Post
...there used to be a load...the Speer .44 Magnum 200 grain Gold Dot HP...was rated at 1080 from a 4" barrel. It used the 200 grain bullet that is used in their slow-poke .44 Special load that doesn't expand reliably at all at 860 from 6.5" barrel... Apparently not enough .44 Magnum carriers knew about the round or bought it as Speer dropped it a few years ago.

Loading data for that bullet is in the Speer #14 Reloading Manual. When I had a 629 Mountain Gun I used 10.0 grains of W-231 to duplicate the load. I have a bunch of bullets left and am thinking about getting another 629 MG just to use them up with. Very controllable round and expands every time.

Just saw this yesterday on YouTube and was impressed with the performance of both the .38 and .44 rounds...

Old School Manstoppers! .38 Special VS .44 Special Lead Hollow Points! - YouTube

Heavy .44 Special Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

The .38 Special is basically a duplicate of the .38-44 loading but BB says it is safe in all MODERN .38 Special revolvers...even Js. MUCH better round than the vaulted FBI load...MUCH...

Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition
200 gr at 860 fps in .429 caliber. why do you need expansion???
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Old 02-14-2021, 01:40 PM
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What the OP wants is like others have written. Search for the discontinued rare as hens teeth Speer 44 Short bbl loads, buy some Underwood or the aluminum cased Blazer 44s.
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Old 02-14-2021, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
A 44 or 45 that does not expand is as big as a 38 or 357 that does.
Compare Lucky Gunner Labs results between the best .45 ACP loads that expand and the best .357 Magnums that expand. Plus their penetration results.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/

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Old 02-14-2021, 01:49 PM
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Black Hills Honey Badger
I have a 3" .44 Special revolver from a company that rhymes with booger. Started using this ammo after reading articles and testing it. Light weight bullets moving fast and hitting hard. No expansion to worry about, creates a large wound channel. Felt recoil is less than the 240 LSWC that I load for plinking. Accurate too..

.44 Special HoneyBadger™ | Black Hills Ammunition

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Old 02-14-2021, 01:52 PM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammer Jammer View Post
What the OP wants is like others have written. Search for the discontinued rare as hens teeth Speer 44 Short bbl loads, buy some Underwood or the aluminum cased Blazer 44s.
I know the Speer Gold Dot loads are discontinued so I went directly to the Underwood .44 Special 200gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point Self Defense Ammo using the Speer Gold Dots at an even higher velocity than Speers original loading.

Anyone considering using a .44 Special or .44 Magnum short barrel handgun should consider that load for defensive carry in my opinion.
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Old 02-14-2021, 01:59 PM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
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Smile Underwood .44 Special 200gr. Wadcutter

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER View Post
200 gr at 860 fps in .429 caliber. why do you need expansion???
Try the Underwood .44 Special 200gr. Wadcutter Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast load for self defense rated at 1000 FPS (barrel test length not stated). No expansion considerations just crushing and sharp shoulder tearing. I have been doing my homework.




Of course you can go to the opposite end of the spectrum and shoot the .44 Rem Mag 135gr Glaser Silver load rated at Velocity: 1600fps, Test Barrel Length: 4.0 Inches. It is one of the only Glaser rounds still in production as I understand.



There is one thing for sure; if you carry a .44 Magnum you can carry ammo to match most any situation you are likely to face from two legged animals to big four legged ones with teeth and long claws.

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Old 02-14-2021, 02:12 PM
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I like Speer 200 44 special and the old 20 + years winchester silvertip supposedly worked well, I carry one or the other in the 44 specials. In the 44 mag derringer I carry the discontinued 44 mag SB speer. Will have to start looking for something new out of the derringer. As you said no magic bullets, but I feel comfortable with most loads that start at .40 or above. Be Safe,
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Old 02-14-2021, 02:37 PM
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Its strange how many great .44 Special +P and .44 Magnum loads have been "DISCONTINUED". I have little doubt it was due to lack of sales and that it is partly on us the shooters and partly on them for not working harder to get the word out about their products to both law enforcement and the concealed carry community as to their ammo's effectiveness and sing its praises loud enough. Now, I know, in today's Socialist Democratic Leaning Society that is NOT EASY but it MUST BE DONE for the good of the people who's lives depend on the ammo they carry! NO, I am not a Republican but an Independent (former Conservative Democrat ) that was once active in the Democratic Party until I was told to "Shut Up, Sit Down, and Just VOTE THE PARTY Line" by my State Party Progressive Officials in Texas at the time! Wrong Move, that was like picking a gunfight with Jim Cirillo!!!!!

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Old 02-14-2021, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal View Post
Compare Lucky Gunner Labs results between the best .45 ACP loads that expand and the best .357 Magnums that expand. Plus their penetration results.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/
I did, one 357 load expanded larger than my +P 200gr Gold Dots. Plenty went deeper sure. But, at 14" they will get er done
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
I did, one 357 load expanded larger than my +P 200gr Gold Dots. Plenty went deeper sure. But, at 14" they will get er done
.45 ACP Speer 200 gr Gold Dot +P - 5 shot average expansion diameter 0.70, average penetration 13.8".

Winchester 230 gr Ranger T-Series - 5 shot average diameter 1", penetration 14.2".

I carry Federal 230 gr HST +P in both my Springfield .45 XD and S&W 625 .45ACP. 5 shot average expansion was 0.85" and average penetration was 14.8". My guns like the Federal load.

The only .357 Round that came close was the 357 Mag - 125 Grain Lead-Free HP - Barnes TAC-XPD load and it was out of a 2" test barrel. The 5 shot average expansion was 0.75" and the average penetration was 14.6". Very few people carry or use this ammo as it is one of the most expensive .357 Mag. ammos one can buy.

We all choose what we and our guns like the best.

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Old 02-14-2021, 03:45 PM
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Exclamation The Good of the People Comes First!

We, the self-defense and law enforcement communities deserve better than what we have been getting both from ammo companies and from our city, state, and Federal governments! Politics be damned they are supposed to be serving the "GOOD OF THE PEOPLE" FIRST not theirs' or their political parties interests first!!! It is long past time "we" start demanding that of elected officials AGAIN!
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:11 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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My M629 Mountain Gun is loaded with Buffalo Bore .44 Specials. The MG resides near my computer as I type.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:25 PM
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I like Sig Sauer 44 Spl. 200 gr. JHP. Recoil is modest and it groups well in my Ruger Alaskan and M69 in 4.2"bbl.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:37 PM
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Ammo companies have to consider their bottom line. Most defensive loads for revolvers are niche markets and not worth the cost to make and sell. You can either go with a small ammo maker or load your own. I happen to be a fan of Black Hills.

In the auto pistol calibers, including the revolvers I have so chambered, I generally carry the ammo that has passed Doctor Roberts' testing. He is the successor to Dr. Fackler and easily the best qualified expert available today. In revolver calibers, my default (with an exception that does not matter much) is a relatively heavy for caliber SWC at modest velocity. Placement matters most, as long as there is adequate penetration, and then the ability to deliver follow up/successive shots s fast as possible and with sound placement. I have experimented with my own retired qualification performance - for me, the mid-bore (9mm/.38 range) is the winner. Can I qualify with hotter .357 loads in my M66? Yes. Do I shoot those as well as .38 SWC in the same revolver? Nope. The difference is easily perceived and probably really pronounced if I were to use a shot timer.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
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Ammo companies have to consider their bottom line. Most defensive loads for revolvers are niche markets and not worth the cost to make and sell. You can either go with a small ammo maker or load your own. I happen to be a fan of Black Hills.

In the auto pistol calibers, including the revolvers I have so chambered, I generally carry the ammo that has passed Doctor Roberts' testing. He is the successor to Dr. Fackler and easily the best qualified expert available today. In revolver calibers, my default (with an exception that does not matter much) is a relatively heavy for caliber SWC at modest velocity. Placement matters most, as long as there is adequate penetration, and then the ability to deliver follow up/successive shots s fast as possible and with sound placement. I have experimented with my own retired qualification performance - for me, the mid-bore (9mm/.38 range) is the winner. Can I qualify with hotter .357 loads in my M66? Yes. Do I shoot those as well as .38 SWC in the same revolver? Nope. The difference is easily perceived and probably really pronounced if I were to use a shot timer.
Considering the litigation lability of using your own or someone else's reloads in court in a self defense shooting I will pass on that option!

I personally am interested in ammo to be used in a concealed carry/self defense firearm that is defendable in court, God Forbid, it ever had to be used in self defense. Me, personally, I have my .45 ACP ammo but I am looking to get into a S&W Performance Center 629 2.6" .44 Mag with either some .44 Special +P loads as I have discussed above or some specifically designed .44 Magnum self defense loaded ammo which there is very little of. I plan to have the cylinder cut for use with full moon clips and the chambers chamfered which I have already discussed with my gunsmith. I am already shooting an Apex Tactical S&W 625 .45 ACP with full moon clips and love the fast reloads. To each their own.


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Old 02-14-2021, 07:14 PM
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That 200 wc profile at 1000 fps looks good. When using lighter/shorter/milder bullets in large caliber revolvers, you may need to check if your sights can be adjusted so poa=poi. That wadcutter has the length, likely not a hard kicker and probably very effective.

For the short 45's used, have been moving toward a large meplat coated lead projectile at milder velocity's. A lot easier to control, and not dependent on expansion. However ya may need to be aware of penetration capability.
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Old 02-14-2021, 08:40 PM
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Georgia Arms makes a .44 mag 240gr SWC that lists 1,000 fps on the bag. It is my favorite load, loaded in new Starline brass. Though I paid $28/50 for 'em in the past I think it might be different now. Joe
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Old 02-14-2021, 08:58 PM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
That 200 wc profile at 1000 fps looks good. When using lighter/shorter/milder bullets in large caliber revolvers, you may need to check if your sights can be adjusted so poa=poi. That wadcutter has the length, likely not a hard kicker and probably very effective.

For the short 45's used, have been moving toward a large meplat coated lead projectile at milder velocity's. A lot easier to control, and not dependent on expansion. However ya may need to be aware of penetration capability.
I agree totally I wish someone like Underwood would make a coated .45 ACP full wadcutter for us S&W 625 .45 ACP revolver shooters using full moon clips. But then I know we are a small niche group.

When I get my S&W Performance Center 629 .44 Mag 2.6" I plan to definitely try some of Underwood's .44 Special 200gr. Wadcutter Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast through it.

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Old 02-14-2021, 09:42 PM
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I had a good friend who carried a shortened Model 24 (4") for many years and used the old factory 44 Special load with 246 grain lead bullet going about 775fps----probably about 700 fps out of his shortened barrel. He was in a lot more tough situations than I was and never felt that his gun needed more power. It was a ferocious manstopper, not a great penetrater and easy to shoot repeat shots. This should be as good today as it was then.
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Old 02-14-2021, 10:01 PM
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Right or wrong, Skeeters' .44 Special load has been my most frequent carry load. The Keith 250 grain slug over 7.5 grains of Unique is accurate and hard hitting. The Speer Gold Dot load is the only commercial load I'd run instead if my only concerns were two legged threats.....
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:52 PM
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Would be interesting to see what the actual velocity is from your 2.75" barrel of both the Magnum and Special loadings...

A friend had one of the PC 629 2.75" ported carry guns. He sent me pics of the .44 Special loading after hitting water...they didn't expand at all whereas the Magnum bullets expanded every time... He didn't have a chrono to test test them however.
Yep, been meaning to do this, but the public ranges I use won't let me set it up. I called Speer to see if they had gel tested the Special load in a short barrel, and he said they hadn't. He did say the Gold Dot bullet was designed to expand at 750fps and over. Your friend's ported guns are likely bleeding off enough velocity to drive them under that number, if they're at that number to begin with.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:04 PM
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44 mag standard loads are way overkill on bad guys. Go 44 spl or even better, 9mm
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:33 PM
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I notice that 44 Spl.& 44 Mag. Cowboy loads have not been mentioned. I do not think they will have good penetration in heavy clothing, but light/medium clothing might work. The old issue police load was 38 Spl. w/158gr. RNL and it worked back then. This is just something I will add to the conversation. This load worked way back when this was all they had.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:53 PM
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Both the Underwood in .44 Special loads I mentioned earlier, I believe could be classed as +P with the;

.44 Special 200gr. Wadcutter Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast, Brinell Hardness : 21, Muzzle Velocity (fps) : 1,000, test barrel length not mentioned.

.44 Special 200gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point uses the Speer Gold Dot bullet, rated at 975 feet per second but from an unmentioned length test barrel.

That is exactly why I for one would like to see both rounds tested out of 2.5" .44 Magnum revolvers for both velocity and gel tested for penetration according to FBI standards. Their performance would be very interesting to me!

Of course if Federal should see fit to add a .44 Special +P HST load into the mix then I sure would like to see the tests on that ammo also! I'm not holding my breath however.

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Old 02-15-2021, 11:56 PM
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Default 44 special hard cast full wad utter.

I carry the Buffalo Bore 200 grain Hard Cast Lead Wadcutter in 44 special.

The also have the same in 44 magnum.
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Old 02-16-2021, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
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I carry the Buffalo Bore 200 grain Hard Cast Lead Wadcutter in 44 special.

The also have the same in 44 magnum.
I have nothing against Buffalo bore as they make a fine product. It is just when Underwood started coating their 200gr. wadcutters I leaned their way. I believe them both to be excellent loads! It would be GREAT to see a side by side comparison of the two loads, I think especially from the short barrel .44 Mag. concealed carry model handguns. Different guns, as we know, can prefer different loads. I for one would love to see such tests comparing velocities and penetration's with various guns! If nothing else than to see if there are any anomalies that show up because you never know!

What the heck, throw that Underwood Spear Gold Dot loading in for good measure since the velocity ratings are almost identical. It should make for some very interesting data for short barreled .44 Mag shooters to digest and think on!

OK, YouTube Ammo testers there is your CHALLENGE!





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Old 02-16-2021, 10:05 AM
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I just noticed a chrono test of the Speer Short Barrel load with a 2.5" Redhawk here. Good results on speed. If the Underwood +P load with the GDHP is roughly the same velocity. it'll be a good alternative.
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Old 02-16-2021, 11:00 AM
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So i guess Winchester doesn't make these anymore?
44mag 010.jpg
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Old 02-16-2021, 11:27 AM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
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Quote:
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So i guess Winchester doesn't make these anymore?
Attachment 497767
It seems they still are around and are a viable option. I wish there was more data on such loads as the Winchester .44 Magnum 210gr Silver tip as it was designed as a self-defense round, as to my understanding. Rated at 1250 FPS out of an unspecified barrel length. It would be interesting to see what it actually does out of a 2.5" barrel and in Gel Tests!

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Old 08-05-2022, 04:18 PM
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This thread, although not fresh, is a very interesting one for those of us who prefer to carry a 44 mag for protection against 2-legged predators. One round that is still being manufactured in 2022 but wasn't mentioned in this thread is the Barnes 44 mag 225 gr XPB. Am wondering if anyone here has tested this round in a revolver and, if so, would you care to share your thoughts on it? Am also curious if it's true that the recoil of this round is somewhere between 44 mag and 44 Special?
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:34 PM
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Yrs ago when in the protection service ,I use to load my four inch 29 with Remington reduced loads and their 180 gr JHP in speed loaders.
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:53 PM
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I still have some Speer Gold Dot 44 Mag. for short bbl. revolvers. This is supposed to be a hot spl. load(?). I prefer a 44 Spl./44 Mag. for self defense. Sig ammo, which I have is also good(?) for self defense from those who have fired it at targets-not people. This is still a good thread to read and learn.
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:59 PM
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Let's see .44 Special?

MMMMMnnnn.

A flat nosed bullet or SWC 200-245 grn 700-1000 FPS....
If that won't do the job what will, a German 88?
It seemed to work pretty good on Stagger Lee.
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Old 08-05-2022, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
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Compare Lucky Gunner Labs results between the best .45 ACP loads that expand and the best .357 Magnums that expand. Plus their penetration results.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/



Fake gel tests are unreliable. I don't know why people keep using that stuff.
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Old 08-06-2022, 07:04 PM
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Because they are not trying to precisely match the FBI data, but still need something that is consistent and reliable, with less difficulty of use. True ballistic gelatin has very demanding standards and is hard to handle.
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Old 08-07-2022, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
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Because they are not trying to precisely match the FBI data, but still need something that is consistent and reliable, with less difficulty of use. True ballistic gelatin has very demanding standards and is hard to handle.

But it is the only medium that is consistent and reliable. Go figure.



But if you like inconsistency and skewed data then go for it.
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Old 08-07-2022, 02:45 PM
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I do not have access to a proper laboratory, but I think a Keith 250 at 950 fps will be both a good self-defense load, at the same time mild and easy on you and the Model 29. A good choice for defense if you are committed to the big bore revolver.
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