Obviously I was asking the question on an individual level, expecting individual responses.

The question wasn't, "How small is OBJECTIVELY too small" but rather what is too small for YOU?

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Two days ago I made a one day trip to Illinois and back. I spent eighteen hours in a car and I carried this:


This is probably a good indicator of where small and light guns fit in my lexicon.

I have nothing against small and light guns, or those who use them, they just don't work well for me. I have large hands and long fingers and small guns are not a good interface. With revolvers, I'll shortly wind up with a bleeding index finger that's been pinched between the frame and trigger. If a grip is used that's large enough to really control the weapon, it negates the utility of a small gun. I think S&W J frames are dandy weapons, as are Colt D frames. They just don't work for me.

With semi-autos I'll wind up with the web of my shooting hand cut and/or abraded pretty quickly. When drawing from a holster, I have great difficulty establishing a good master grip, so accuracy suffers. My issued sidearm at my current job is a Glock 23, which I hate with a passion. The grip is simply too small and I often find myself inadvertently engaging the slide stop if I'm not very aware of my hand position. We're supposed to be replacing them with G19s, something that can't happen soon enough in my opinion.

This served as my back up gun for nearly 25 years. In that context it served well, but as a primary carried IWB? Forget it, for the aforementioned reasons.


A previous comment was made regarding danger assessment. The poster has obviously drawn the completely illogical and dangerous conclusion that nothing beyond contact distance will pose a danger to you. Many of the victims of active shooters were killed beyond contact distance. Ask any of the kids running for their lives down the school commons area at Columbine if they felt in danger. Ask any of the patrons of the movie theatre in Aurora, Colorado if they felt safe because they were beyond contact distance.

In evaluating carry guns I use what I call the Food Court Standard. From the holster, I have to be able to consistently draw and execute a head shot at twenty five to thirty yards, the average distance across a mall food court. If it can't do that it doesn't get carried. In that scenario I envision an active shooter armed with a rifle suddenly appearing across the food court, while I sit waiting for my wife and enjoying my Orange Julius. My best chance for overcoming that scenario is a single quick headshot, before I draw the shooters attention. If I can't get that done, I've just brought a handgun to a rifle fight. The chances of that actually happening are slim to none you say? Probably, but it's the stakes not the chances sports fans.

All of that aside, the reality is that size and weight are primary factors in handgun selection. Most people want something that doesn't interfere in any way with their lifestyle and convenience.(the fact that you're participating in this discussion means you automatically have more interest than most of the general public) Most of them will never shoot their choice of weapon outside of a CCW permit class, so size and weight are all that matters.

Been there and done that. One titanium cylinder and alloy frame revolver, I kept it one week. Just too nasty to shoot. For me a steel framed J frame is about as small and light as i want to get.

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Ed

I only recently started carrying my steel 5" 1911, IWB, and I have to say I was rather surprised at how easily it carries. I've worn it for 10+ hours, sometimes spending a few hours at a time driving, walking around, running errands, etc. The only difficulty is printing when bending over, because of the grip length, but that can be minimized with patterned shirts that help break up the outline.

But I still have my 642 when I want something lighter and/or more discreet, as well as my Beretta PX4 Compact.

Now I just need to get some carry gear for my Beretta 92FS.

And I still want a pocket .380 for times when I want to go "secret squirrel."

I've carried a 1911 almost daily for the better part of thirty years. The flatness of the design really aids in concealability. The same can be said for the 4506, which I usually carry if it isn't a 1911. I've gone to the factory grip with the curved backstrap. It's thinner and rounder than a standard 1911 and actually prints even less.

If I want to feel secret and sexy, I can pull out my Walther PP in .32acp. "Brick through a plate glass window" and all that.

I have made the completely logical conclusion that I am not going to prepare for any possible occurrence.

Hence, my Food Court Standard is that if an active shooter armed with a rifle show ups, I run to the nearest exit.

Attempting to execute a head shot at twenty five to thirty yards would be insanity.

I have double ought zero reason to train for such. Nor to carry enough gun to do it.

So, probably, it's not an illogical and dangerous conclusion all.

I have taken no precautions for the chances of a meteor striking my house, even though the stakes are huge.

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I've still got it made.

I have the LCP and 340PD, both are reliable & accurate at combat distances. That’s as small & light as I can handle and still defend myself.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Agree with you 100% on this. Question however. Given the choice between running and cowering under the table counting the dried up pieces of gum stuck on the underside do you take or leave the Orange Julius.
Me, I'm in the "hide under the table" school and will wait until he closes distance before opening up-unless i am REAL close to a door. A headshot at an active shooter from 25 yards while pooping my pants is something that I do not train for. I will leave that to Gecko45

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Forum consigliere

Whether I actually run for the door, or hide under the table, or go to the Chick-fil-A counter for some more waffle fries will be decided at the time, depending on actual circumstances.

I think what we have here is projection. Trooper224 has "trooper" in his name. His post shows an LE badge. He, then, as a law enforcement officer, might actually be forced by circumstances to take such a shot. I wish him well if he has to. But it is beyond the pale for citizen carriers like us.

IOW, I am NOT going to train to be a police sniper or gunny. His training requirement - his mission - is different from mine. That's why I mentioned military and police in post #25.

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I've still got it made.

That's a nice world of circular logic you're living in, on planet false equivalency. But hey, you do you bro.

Perhaps you can exercise verbal judo and offer to buy the shooter one of his own, "Orange or Bannana Strawberry sir?"

Won’t you have the same problem with the G19?

More specific?

Anyone who recommends I take a 30 yard shot in a food court shouldn't be throwing rocks.

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I've still got it made.

Please show me where i recommended any course of action, to you or anyone else. I simply related my personal approach. I'm not the least bit concerned with how you approach life, or anything related to it. Thank you for reminding me why i usually refrain from discussing tactics and actual shooting skills on this forum.

When your number is up, it’s up.

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Sure you did

Went through a dozen EDC's before 'finding' the 365. No other weapon offerred as good a combo of compact carry comfort, round count, and manageable recoil. With that said, if just running local chores or on the daily bike or walk, an LCP improved gen 1 will be in one pocket, a spare mag in the other. Almost too small, it works well enough.

...for defense, but I have a mod 38 that is really light but it is PAINFUL to practice with. If I HAD to I could shoot it all day, but it's not something I'd have fun doing. I put some grips on it so I at least don't have to use morphine.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I think that it was "Gunny Highway's" fellow Marine from the conflict in Korea that said it in "Heartbreak Ridge": it must be nice knowing when and where you are going to get attacked!

None of us have an inkling of when or where we may find ourselves needing our carry guns, but if we did, we'd be someplace else! To limit our training and practice to bad breath distances is doing ourselves and our loved ones a disservice. What is the harm behind trying a magazine at 25 or 50 yards after firing away at 7 yards?

I trained as a rifleman for over 50 years, but I have dabbled with pistols. I have (and still do) shoot NRA 2700 matches, as well as PPC, IHMSA out to 200 meters.

My point is, you never know when you will have to depend on your pistol. If it depended on any of us, we would opt to not find ourselves in a defensive situation, therefore we are totally dependent upon fate. Remember, the ideal combat location is sitting at home in your recliner watching TV! How many practice two-handed, strong hand, and weak handed shooting? How many practice from unconventional positions? Remember, in a self-defense scenario, we are initially on the defensive until we get a handle on the situation.

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Judge control not gun control!

Too small for me is...

Semi-autos...
1) Pinkie doesn't wrap around the bottom of the grip (or extended magazine)
2) Strong-hand thumb doesn't reach the slide release

Revolvers...
All strong-hand fingers don't get on/around the grip

What's the best size shoes? It depends, feet vary widely, as do hands.
TOO light and/or TOO small is totally subjective and the answer is an individual thing.
I have medium sized hands, BUT my fingers are short and fat (size 12 wedding band).
The P365 fits me PERFECTLY. I can shoot almost anything, because my hands are also quite strong.
But the short front to back dimension of the P365 just works for my short stubby sausage fingers.
As for weight, the P365 shoots like a much heavier gun. I won't say it is soft shooting, but it is a lot softer shooting than the other compact 9's I've shot - and I've shot and carried quite a few, including models from Taurus, Ruger, S&W, and Sig.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

You make a very good point about shooting at distance, but for many that only shoot up very close, they would quickly become discouraged shooting at 25 or 50 yards. You learn a lot about consistent shooting technique at 25 yards because you are forced to learn if you want to hit the target, something you needn't worry about up close.

I find it best to practice Bullseye style, strong hand, single-action at 25 and 50 yards to help me improve my shooting whether I'm using a revolver or semi-auto. It's very easy to revert back to two-handed, Weaver stance style shooting at any time and you'll have no urge to fire single-action when you do. At least, that's what I've found. An added benefit is that your closeup shooting will also improve, even if you already thought you did pretty well at 5 or 15 yards.

Nope. Like I said, I'm gonna hide and try to sneak away. First priority is to save MY backside. If I can acomplish that by hiding or slinking away rather than shooting the guy, then that is what I'm gonna do. Mainly because I don't have, nor do I intend to make that much time available for training. Got other things to do. Plus, I've lived a good life, the kids are raised and momma is set up-although I'd rather not, if I die so be it. At this stage life is wayyyy too short for obsessively fantasizing over what I need to do to prepare for a 25 yard food court head shot in a shooter situation. Other than not going to food courts in malls to begin with .

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Forum consigliere

It's nice to have so many choices, and be able to adapt for varying situations. The only firearm that is too small for me is one that is not reliable enough to fulfill it's purpose.

My EDC for over 5 years.

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John

I just watched the Maltese Falcon for the umpteenth time, and always enjoy the contrast between the gunsel's 1911s, and Sydney Greenstreet's .25 acp, looks like maybe a Browning 1905, have i got that right? that little vest pocket piece. If I started wearing vest, I might look for one of those.

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Ed

Always wanted to get a Seecamp .32. A Baby Browning would be cool, too.

But I'd still rather carry my 1911.

As a fan of the movie, I was curious and checked IMFDB. They don't mention Greenstreet's gun, but according to them Cairo's was a Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket .25.



Maltese Falcon, The (1941) - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games

It's been several years since I've seen the movie, so I can't remember details like that.

Smaller is IMO not better, easier yes, but stick somebody in a fire fight and let them use their "little" gun. Yes something is better than nothing!

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, whatever is what I always get, well whatever me when you empty you 10 round micro and you've got nothing left but the Frisby of micro whatever your carrying....

Mind you this is of my own opinions, I EDC what some carry on duty with back up mags and I hope to God I never have to use one bullet out of the dang thing...

You can carry anything larger or small as long as your "kit" is correct for you carry what you fight(Train) with the best..

My smallest would be my 19 snub or my G43x with 15+1 can't go wrong there....

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This is the way....

Huh?

I carry my P365 (micro 9) with 11 in the gun and at least a 12 round spare mag.

I figure if I can't come out on top with 23 rounds, then having your 31 (16 in the gun + 15 in a spare mag) probably wouldn't help much.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

If you carry a single shot .22 derringer and you feel good about it - good on you. Thanks for supporting the 2A.

If you figured out how to carry a Barrett .50 under your coat without printing and that’s your daily carry - good on you too. Thanks for supporting thev 2A.

Shouldn’t adults be able to make up their own minds about what works best for themselves and their circumstances?

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Vegan by proxy.

Of course not...this is the Internet.

FWIW, I'm still trying to figure out how to conceal carry a katana under my coat. I don't know how The Highlander did it.

This the smallest in my safe. When I travel out of state I carry a S&W 649 and leave this home. No CCW in Maryland.
It's just a little bigger than a box of cigarettes and fits in back pocket like wallet.

Beretta Nano 9mm with Lasermax laser, 6 and 8 rnd mags.

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2B1ASK1

I can shoot the NAA Black Widow about as well as a J-frame. The NAA really fits my hand well and points like a finger. Anything smaller, though, I have problems with.