That’s the Magistrate Judge assigned to hear preliminary matters. Jail records typically don’t include counsel. I wonder if that’s a surety bond?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Dunno about Texas, but NM would only specify 'cash only' or 'property,' with the assumption nearly all are surety.

I did notice he had been served a warrant, so there was either a McLaughlin hearing after a warrantless arrest or a magistrate found probable cause before issuing a warrant that was subsequently served.

You or others

When I was in the Air Force in Texas about 70 years ago, I remember
Lone Star beer. It had a picture of a horse standing on it's hind legs
on the label. It was said that it was the only beer in the country with
a picture of the brewery on the label.

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In Omnia Paratus

And Camel cigarettes had a picture of its factory on every pack......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Texas statutes currently on the books goes farther than any other jurisdiction . It also flys in the face of Tennessee vs Garner , and is ripe to be at least partially overturned . And Texas juries have a history of being quirky about the unwritten concept of " .... Because He Needed Shooting " .

********************

Absolutely , the current trends is various jurisdictions catagorically refusing to ever prosecuting misdemeanors is a big step to societal disorder , if not eventual collaspe
But we have not yet reached the level of anarchy depected in Mad Max , or the Purge .

But we sure have gotten a lot closer over the past year. Only a Star Chamber, and a Judge Paul Kersey can save us now.

No need to speculate. FBI — Table 12 Violent crime (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault) was down 0.7%, property crime down 4% in 2019 from 2018; we'll know about 2019 to 2020 next month.

2018 to 2019...aka - the good ole days. Lets revisit this when the 2020 to 2021 statistics are out, like I said in my earlier post, "over the past year"

How does Tenn. v Garner apply in this case?

Fleeing subjects can only use deadly force if said fleeing subject is at imeadate risk of causing Death or Serious Bodily Injury .

This was specifically a Law Enforcement Officer , but when an otherwise Private Citizen is pursuing a criminal to apprehend them , they are engaging in a Citizen's Arrest* .

Can you please cite any precedent or cases that make it applicable to civilians?

As I pointed out earlier, Garner is a 4th amendment civil rights case. It is not directly applicable to criminal law, and only applies to a government agent (LE) making a seizure. Some or many states amended their criminal law to match, but a state could still have a law that allowed shooting a fleeing felon and the only consequence for LE would be a civil rights/damages claim. A state need not have amended the law with regard to a private citizen's use of force, either.

Looking back, it is highly probable that Justice O'Connor's dissent was right. One can probably draw a straight line from that opinion to the current culture of non-compliance. As for data, a LOT of agencies are pressured to categorize crimes as much less serious than they really are. I would give more credence to victimization studies.

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NHI, 10-8.

It doesn't, the person involved isn't a cop.

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GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

Under Reporting crimes us as old as time itself.

Strong Arm Robbery becomes Theft By Sudden Snatching.

Aggravated Batter becomes Battery.

Burglary becomes Trespassing.

Gramd Theft becomes Petty Theft.



The pendulum is swinging back towards a "softer, gentler police force" and because of that, crime is climb.

I can't wait to see the next batch of "Blazer Experiments" done and agencies and city officials discover that battery on LEOs go up.

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GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

Having been a guard Ops "correctional officer" for the last 25 years at a maximum security prison Ops " correctional facility" dealing with the worst inmates Ops "residents" that this state has, what you say has some merit. However there is a huge dose of psyco " we can fix em" hug a thug B.S. sweeping the country. I have even listened to these over educated idiots call to the criminals "victims of society".

We can’t lock every criminal up forever. They’re gonna get released. So we need to prepare for it. Sadly, your attitude towards corrections may be perpetuating the cycle . . .

Just to clarify, you posted this, right?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I just checked...Delon is still in jail.

There needs to be more effort at corrective action with those who can be directed toward productivity. There also needs to be an understanding that there are some pretty awful folks who need to be warehoused until they are not dangerous. What I see now is so too much focus on the first group, without understanding that some of them belong in the second, and without near enough concern for the victims.

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NHI, 10-8.

Why yes I did! I am a bit confused with your drawing a parallel between a law abiding citizen going about his/her business, and a convicted felon serving time in a maximum security prison.

Good bye and God Bless.

AMEN BROTHER!

I'm sure you are . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I do not consider myself to be an over educated "idiot", but i do believe some of these are indeed victims of our society. They are the ones who through no fault of their own were not taught at a young age that actions have reactions. Such as, sass your mother get your butt warmed up. Slap your sister or brother, get your butt warmed up. Steal something from the local drugstore, grocery, street vender, get your butt warmed up, by them and again when you get home. Sass the teacher, get your butt warmed up and again when you get home. Consequences make sure that you understand that wrong actions lead to the might of strength. It's how many generations grew up to lead productive lives without spending time in the gray bar hotel.

And yet some of these people do belong behind bars for the rest of their lives. or need to have their lives ended by society because they are so violent they can not live in any part of our society not even the society bordered in high walls and cell blocks.

I use the term "criminally feral" for a couple of reasons. The first is that it generally reflects the reality that some folks were just never raised right. In crude terms, making a decent productive human out of them is like trying to make a house pet out of a 3 year old barn cat. It can be done, but there is a lot to overcome.
The other is that too many otherwise valid terms have come for various reasons to be associated with racial/ethnic bias. While I do not think of them way, too many do and it messes up the discourse about violent criminal conduct. Since that discourse is already baggage laden, leading to stupid commentary, I want to keep it on point.

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NHI, 10-8.

It's not about color, it's about behavior, to me anyway. Others think differently.

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protocalldesign.com

There is a world of difference between a criminal court/trial and a discussion on an Internet Forum. Just having this discussion would disqualify us from the jury pool. What a prosecutor can prove beyond a reasonable doubt is a far cry from what I would have to teach in a concealed carry class about the use of deadly force.

Besides, there's a reason prosecutors generally disallow lawyers from their juries. It's easy to be impartial but impossible to remove knowledge of the law from your head.

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Come and take it!!

While that comment and others are not on point in re the original alleged crime there is one thing we can never forget and that is that there are some pretty awful folks who need to be warehoused forever because they are always dangerous. But, as noted, I digress......

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Come and take it!!

I used to pick juries as part of my post retirement keep me busy job. No, it wouldn’t. . . .

Prosecutors only try to keep the bad lawyers off their juries. They try to empanel the good ones, but they’re smart enough to get removed before the selection begins . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

its a gas , gas , gas.......

doesnt appear to be changing anytime soon.

When I go to bed at night I make it a point to leave a plate of the wifes home made cookies by the front door, the kitchen door and the living room door. Anyone breaking in is surely going to partake of a cookie or two thereby making it unnecessary for me to shoot them.

If the cookies are that bad, those crooks may want to be shot!

Which reminds me of Winston Churchill .


Funniest Joke I Ever Heard 1984 John Hillerman - YouTube

Simply put, you cannot use deadly force unless you are threatened with deadly force.

Everything else is commentary.

So you drag my wife to a car saying you will rape ect. them , no deadly
force implied. Guess what? I will do what it takes. What is you
r commentary to that?
Come and take it!!

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frontsightnsqueaz

If the article was accurate (BIG if) then the crime was a pettit larceny or shoplifting, a misdemeanor. Most people think a “robbery” happens anytime something is stolen from a business but that’s not accurate. I feel bad for this guy, he has BIG legal problems.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Just checked he's still in. Also unable to find any update. Does anyone have anything new?

You can bet you eye teeth that regardless of how the law states, it would not be invoked in Kalifornia.

Why do you think the cops would blow this off?

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

This reminds me of an incident when I was a rookie LEO in the early 70s.

After the swing shift, I stopped by a liquor store where a friend was working. He was ex LAPD which has nothing to do with the story.

While in the store, a guy came in and looked around and then left. I said to my friend: "Thats a henky looking guy." A few minutes later, he was back in again and picked up a case of beer and then ran out to his PU. I followed him out to get a license plate number and the next thing I know; my friend was next to me shooting the tailgate of the perp's PU full of holes with a 380 semi-auto. As VN vet, I instinctively ducked and went for cover behind a convenient car, and I never did get the license plate number.

The truck was never located so there was never any judicial action against my buddy or against the perp. It was interesting and even as a rookie, I was pretty sure that that was not how to handle a shoplifter. It was the first of many gun related incidents that I would eventually handle or participate in.

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Keep your powder dry.

Good thing I'm not on the jury cause as I see it, the killer was wrong for chasing the thief out the door and then shooting him in the car. Standard ruling as as I know it, if the thief gets out the door, wether your home or any other location, they are on free ground and you are no longer defending your life.[/QUOTE]

In downtown Minneapolis, a young man pistol whipped an old lady and stole her purse. A gentleman with a carry permit gave chase and caught the young miscreant. When the youngster attempted to use his weapon to dispute the recovery, he was slow, then dead. Law says you have a legal right to attempt to recover stolen property, which the armed gentleman did. When the troubled youth disputed the recovery with a weapon, it became self defense and in this case, right prevailed. The young mans sister witnessed the event and tried to get the armed man arrested but wound up in jail as an accessory to the theft. The court saw the recovery and shooting as separate events. Apparently, there are situations where practicing draw and shoot will help.

As for store property, I was trained to let management handle it. As I was management, I decided that I owned nothing in the store. If the store was really concerned, they could hire armed security.

Depending on the cookie, it could well be a shootin' offense, especially if there's also a cold glass of milk in imminent jeopardy. .

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213th FBINA

And now we return to my original point - killing theives has consequences.

A little more to the Joe Horn case.
Two guys were burglarizing his neighbors house in broad daylight.
Joe called 911 to report it.
The 911 operator told him to stay inside help was on the way.
Joe said he was going to stop it. And you could hear him rack a shell in his shotgun.
He went out in his front yard.
The two burglars came into his yard.
Hot shot both of them and they died in his yard.
A plain cloths officer was putting on his vest and saw everything happen.
The local community activists cried to high Heaven.
Judge, Jury, executioner etc.
The Grand Jury no billed him.
Happened not far from me. I know some of his neighbors.
It was very costly for him. Finally moved away.

As a note the robbers were unarmed. But the only way anyone could tell would be if they were naked. So he did not know for sure.

Now as how the law responds to all crime. It really depends on where you live. I think and I believe it has been proven. You get the response to crime depending on where you live and how you vote.
My answer is more prisons. Some folks can’t live peacefully in a civilized society. They have to be locked up to protect the law abiding citizens.

The clerk's life was not at risk and he had no justification to use lethal force.

BUT it will be interesting to follow the case and see what the outcome is for the clerk.

I read the article and having lived in west Texas for some years a while back, we may be surprised.