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  #101  
Old 11-29-2021, 02:32 PM
ImprovedModel56Fan ImprovedModel56Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by 16thVACav View Post
If I ever knew, I forgot it long ago. Please enlighten us.
Well, when Larry's and Daryl's brother was born, their parents were going to name him Larry, but decided that that would be too confusing.
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  #102  
Old 11-29-2021, 03:26 PM
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I added emphasis above. That's obviously not true as any object that manages to enter the trigger guard and press the trigger to the rear while depressing the "safety" will fire the gun. There are documented cases of that.
Anyone remember Plaxico Burress? Ask him if he thinks they're safe.
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  #103  
Old 11-29-2021, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
There is a YT video floating around about first time buyers returning their Glocks and wanting to trade for something else with a manual safety. Evidently it's very common.

The US military trains a lot of new pistol shooters and they required a manual safety on the M9 replacement for the regular troop. I know some military units use Glocks and the M11-A1 has no manual safety. The M9 has a manual safety.

I wouldn't recommend a Glock to a novice shooter but that's just me.
The military generally sucks at pistolcraft. I never looked towards the military for modern pistol shooting skills and handling.
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  #104  
Old 11-29-2021, 07:14 PM
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Default Glocks Are Safe If You Are

Like the rule says: Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. I carry a G26 everyday in the appendix position. I put one in the chamber, put the pistol in it's holster and put the holster in my pants. That is where it stays unless I return home and take the whole thing out of my pants or have to use it during the day (haven't had to do so yet). However if I did, I'd remove the holster, replace the pistol in it and then put the whole thing back in my pants. Glocks always go bang when you pull the trigger, are simple to disassemble and reassemble, and won't ever go bang unless you pull the trigger. They have 3 safety's and a 4th which is you finger.
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Old 11-29-2021, 07:17 PM
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I've got a couple of these.
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  #106  
Old 11-29-2021, 07:22 PM
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Default Glock Triggers

Glock triggers are not their best feature as they are generally 5 or 6 lb. pull.



In my opinion there are far too many people who "forget" to actuate their manual safety and wonder why the gun didn't go bang. Same with those who don't carry with one in the chamber. No matter what practice is very important if you want to survive when the SHTF.
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Old 11-29-2021, 07:35 PM
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Glock 26. Perhaps the finest all around pistol I have ever carried. Accurate, reliable, easy to conceal. Truth on the holster issue. I prefer an OWB and this specimen by Sam Andrews is one of the best you can have on your side.
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  #108  
Old 11-29-2021, 07:42 PM
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Default Striker fired pistol safety

If you study the incidents involving accidental discharges and shootings involving striker fired pistols, you will see how common it is for them to discharge under conditions where a pistol with an engaged mechanical safety could not be.

People who love the striker fired designs will argue, as did one post above, that safety is in the head of the person who has the gun.

Unfortunately, many of the accidental shootings involve gun owners not securing their pistol properly, guns being in places where they can get jostled against something or an errant hand contacts the trigger—that jostling or errant hand is often an infant or small child, or anyone who did not know the gun was there or who did not know any better.

Even very trained handlers have such pistols discharge when they do not intend to have it happen.

The gun industry does not want anyone to point out this reality, and “gun people” in general do not want anybody to tell them whatever.

One professional trainer wrote that they did not want a mechanical safety because it would be “…something else to fumble with.”

Thinking…if they are fumbling with a pistol in their hands, most of us don’t want to be nearby.

Proponents of mechanical safeties…and they are out there…recognize that proper training delivers proficiency at deactivating those safeties as part of a deliberate decision process when a pistol is to be fired.
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Old 11-29-2021, 07:50 PM
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If you prefer the safety of the double-action trigger pull on your 638, then you might want to look around for a Sig P250. They are DAO, and their trigger pull reminds me of a really smooth double-action revolver. I grew up with revolvers, so when I first tried the Sig P250, it was "love at first trigger pull". I own multiple P250 fire control units and even more conversion kits in all the calibers that Sig offered them in from .22LR through .45 ACP and all sizes, from subcompact through full-size. All of my P250s have smooth trigger pulls in the 6 to 7 lb range. Sig ceased production of that model a few years ago and has switched to the striker-fired P320. The P320 is a nice striker-fired pistol, but it is not as nice as the P250 to me. YMMV. I suggest you look for a good used P250 if you want a DAO. Barring that, the best alternative is either a Kahr or an H&K P30SK with their LEM trigger.
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  #110  
Old 11-29-2021, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by max503 View Post
I've got a chance at a good buy on a Glock. But they don't have external safeties and the trigger pull is lighter than my J frame in DA.
I'm sure this has been discussed to death and I'm not trying to stir the pot but I'm tempted by this good deal. And sometimes it would be nice to have 10 + 1 without a reload instead of the 5 my j frame gives me.
Another con is I would need a good holster and wear it on my waistband instead of in a pocket like I'm used to. I'm afraid I might buy it and not use it much for that reason.
It's a Model 26 which is a bit bigger than my S&W 638. I don't feel operation of the pistol would be an issue. I've been around guns all my life. But I'm having doubts. Seems like there's too much chance for Murphy's Law to take hold, what with a relatively light trigger pull and no external safety.

Thoughts?
The Glock is mechanically safe from a discharge if dropped. Like your revolver, it will fire if you or anything else (think zipper pulls, keys, lipstick, or anything else) pulls the trigger. Thus, if you pocket carry, use a pocket holster and put nothing in your pocket.

If you want a heavier trigger pull, have your local Glock armorer install the NY-1 or NY-2 trigger spring. That makes it so heavy, you’ll never hit anything, which is why NYPD is finally ditching it and going to the standard 5.5 pound pull.

Although the Glock is mechanically safe, YOU must have confidence in the weapon. Remember Rule 3. Not just with Glocks, but with all guns all the time.

An earlier post said the 1911 had several safeties, and the Glock had none. That, of course, is demonstrably false, at least as to the Glock. The 1911 has the thumb safety, the grip safety, the disconnector safety, the firing pin safety (Swartz or Series 80 only), the half-cock notch, and the extra lug on the back of the thumb safety.

The 1911, of course, has a device that prevents pulling the trigger unless it is switched off. Oddly, the thumb safety doesn’t work at all unless the hammer is cocked, yet people who tout its presence are often uncomfortable carrying the 1911 in Condition One. That said, the Glock does not have a manual safety, but neither does a revolver. If that is a big deal, then don’t buy a Glock.

Think of the Glock as a revolver - safe if dropped, but will fire if you pull the trigger. The Glock has three internal, automatic safeties to prevent a discharge if the weapon is dropped.

1. The firing pin safety prevents inertial firing if it is dropped on the muzzle.

2. The unfortunately named “trigger safety” (the blade in the body of the trigger) prevents inertial firing if the pistol is dropped on its rear (think SIG Sauer P320, which doesn’t have it and apparently they learned why “the hard way”).

3. Finally, the Glock’s third internal, automatic safety is the drop safety (again, the name implies safe from dropping the pistol, when the actual meaning refers to an internal device called a “positive guide means” or a safety shelf, which positively prevents the cruciform sear from “dropping” out of engagement with the lug on the firing pin until just prior to the moment of release, thereby preventing an unintentional discharge).

Glocks have been dropped from helicopters from quite a considerable distance to test the soundness of its safety systems.

At the end of the day, you have to be comfortable. Here are two ideas to help you get there: (1) Rack the slide without a magazine so that the action is set as if you had chambered a round, but you are not actually chambering a round. Carry it around for a week, checking each day to see that the trigger hasn’t magically “pulled itself.” Once you are confident, load up and carry. (2) Attend a Glock armorer’s course. Unlike other gun companies, Glock allows ordinary folks to attend. In-depth explanation of how it works goes a long way in instilling confidence In its safety.

Good luck.

Last edited by shawn mccarver; 11-29-2021 at 08:13 PM.
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  #111  
Old 11-29-2021, 08:11 PM
James E. McCall James E. McCall is offline
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I will add my two cents here, long ago maybe 50 years I was going off duty and at my locker( I was carrying my Smith & Wesson Model 39 ) and just taking off my gunbelt when my Lieutenant who had his locker across from me when I heard a bang and the door of my locker which was open and hit with a richochet and the bullet struck me on my tieclasp very lightly and wound up in my hand, and as I turned to him he had a ragged hole down his trousers and a big chunk taken out of his right shoe at the heel. I turned to him shaking as I did so and asked him if this bullet in my hand was his and he stated "yes" as I handed it to him and asked him what had happened and he related that his New carry was a Glock. He is a veteran shooter and I could not believe he had an accidental discharge . He then stated that he was taking it out of his holster and it went off . He then with hands trembling ejected the magazine, pulled the slide back and ejected the round in the chamber, locking the slide back, I asked him if he had any injury and he said no, mean while a whole bunch of our fellow officers came down the stairs and asked what ha happened, well to conclude he had to fill our a form about and accidental discharge and told me later he brought back that Glock to where he bought it and instead bought a Model 39 like mine. Glocks are not safe no matter what anyone says , I know it takes training training and more training but still I will never want one or shoot one ever.

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  #112  
Old 11-29-2021, 08:13 PM
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Personally, I don't think you are overthinking it as has been suggested. Unfortunately, there is too much groupthink on this topic (and in the gun world and other fields generally) and not enough independent thinking going on.

Let me preface this by saying that I've owned dozens of concealed carry firearms over the last 16 years it's been [again] legal to carry in my state. I've had six Glocks and six M&P's alone (some with and without manual safeties). I've also had DAO, SAO, and DA/SA carry pistols as well, so I am intimately familiar with a variety of pistol actions.

One of the worst sayings in the gun world is that "The only safety you need is between your ears". Either that or "Just keep your booger finger off the trigger and you'll be alright" or something similar. Those are both very bad ways to look at it in my opinion.

Let me ask the forum a question. How many times has "Glock leg" occurred with a pistol with a manual safety, DAO, SAO, or DA/SA pistol? Glock leg happens every year, and I've read dozens and dozens of reports over the years researching this, and although I am sure some idiot somewhere did it, I've never heard of Glock leg happening with anything but a striker-fired pistol, and they've always been ones without a manual safety. Again, I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but clearly it is almost always with a striker-fired gun without a manual safety. Say what you will, but it is not just a coincidence.

I remember a news story years ago where three police officers got Glock leg for the same reason (the draw string from their jacket got caught in the trigger guard holstering their weapon). This was a mainstream news story. One guy was wearing a Glock 22 and after the gun went off, the doctors couldn't tell him for days if he was going to keep his leg.

I still carry striker-fired pistols without a manual safety (M&P9 M2.0 Subcompact), but I prefer DA/SA or something with a manual safety. On my S&W PC M&P9 Shield M2.0, I have a manual safety, but I only engage it to holster the weapon and then I turn it off. I know there are risks associated with drawing a pistol without a manual safety as well, but I am very familiar with the possibilities and I take that risk, but I limit it (as the pistol is only among five that I carry). But I wouldn't tell anyone not to overthink it.

Nor would I ever imply that the only safety you need is the one between your ears because we can all fly on autopilot. Have you ever put something that belongs in the refrigerator in a cabinet? Have you ever missed a turn you're made a thousand times?

Moreover, it is very foolish in my opinion to otherwise leave the impression that as long as you keep your finger off the trigger (until you're ready to fire) you'll be okay because it's not always true.

By and large these kinds of accidents are fairly rare, but they happen—like clockwork—and it historically happens with striker-fired pistols without manual safeties even before they became as popular as they are today.

Let's also understand that striker-fired pistols are cheaper to build and thus more profitable, so the groupthink is significant as you can imagine.

That said, I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying a Glock. They are great guns. I think it's a pistol every gun owner should own at some point just to get familiar with the concept so long as they feel they can handle it.

I remember many years ago when James Yeager came on the scene he really impress upon people the misconceptions I mentioned (as if everyone trains like him each day or that he is immune to auto-pilot).

Part of his training was to demonstrate how safe a striker-fired pistol like a Glock can be when dropped. So they'd throw the pistol on the ground and step on it to show the class how safe it is. One day one of his trainers did it and the gun fired a bullet into someone's truck. THAT is what I am talking about regarding groupthink.

Some people get other people's ideas in their head and treat it as if they did their own thinking just because the researched what others said. Had Yeager and his trainers thought it through before they became "experts" they would have understood the dangers of doing something so foolish.

Anyway, that's my thoughts about it. Just make sure you are taking all the precautions you can think of. As someone who has been around guns all his life, I don't have to tell you that you can't unpull the trigger.

Last edited by Sheepdogged; 11-29-2021 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 11-29-2021, 09:14 PM
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I have carried a G43 in a Galco pocket holster in my front jeans pocket ever since the G43 made its debut. It's deeply concealed and I feel comfortable carrying it safety-wise. The trigger guard is completely covered by the holster.
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  #114  
Old 11-29-2021, 09:16 PM
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If you study the incidents involving accidental discharges and shootings involving striker fired pistols, you will see how common it is for them to discharge under conditions where a pistol with an engaged mechanical safety could not be.
People who love the striker fired designs will argue, as did one post above, that safety is in the head of the person who has the gun.
Unfortunately, many of the accidental shootings involve gun owners not securing their pistol properly, guns being in places where they can get jostled against something or an errant hand contacts the trigger—that jostling or errant hand is often an infant or small child, or anyone who did not know the gun was there or who did not know any better.
Even very trained handlers have such pistols discharge when they do not intend to have it happen.
The gun industry does not want anyone to point out this reality, and “gun people” in general do not want anybody to tell them whatever.
One professional trainer wrote that they did not want a mechanical safety because it would be “…something else to fumble with.”
Thinking…if they are fumbling with a pistol in their hands, most of us don’t want to be nearby.
Proponents of mechanical safeties…and they are out there…recognize that proper training delivers proficiency at deactivating those safeties as part of a deliberate decision process when a pistol is to be fired.
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Old 11-29-2021, 09:30 PM
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Glocks are very safe. Sometimes people are not. Pull the trigger on a DA revolver and it goes bang, same as a Glock. My EDC is a 43X. I also have carried a G26 and loved it until the G43X came along. Galco OWB holster or a Crossbreed IWB holster depending on what I'm wearing. IMHO the safeties built into the Glock are every bit as good as a DA revolver and simpler to operate under pressure than a semi-auto with a manual safety. I carried a Colt 1911 for many years, cocked and locked. Love the gun but much more comfortable with the Glock. Bottom line - train with what you carry and get a quality holster.
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Old 11-29-2021, 09:48 PM
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That Glock has the same safety mechanism your J Frame does.

Has anyone ever pulled the trigger on a semi-auto with a safety by accident or mistake? And then said, “Whew …. That was close!”
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Old 11-29-2021, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
Anyone remember Plaxico Burress? Ask him if he thinks they're safe.
I wouldn't trust Plaxico Burress with a musket.
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Old 11-29-2021, 10:23 PM
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Just some “safety food” for thought. There’s an inexpensive aftermarket trigger called a Siderlock (about $50) that’s essentially a cross bolt-style safety trigger available for Glocks. As a guy who may occasionally slip a G43X into his waistband (temporarily, of course) to run a quick errand or if a shady character is closer than I prefer … me thinks the Siderlock trigger may be just what you’re looking for … an extra margin of safety … yet can be easily & quickly deployed if & when needed. Of course, it’s best to carry in a holster albeit not always an option.
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Old 11-29-2021, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Miami_JBT View Post
The military generally sucks at pistolcraft. I never looked towards the military for modern pistol shooting skills and handling.

I think I know where you may be coming from. When I was in the Navy we got zero pistol training. I had a 1911 for mid watches and had never fired one in boot camp. I did however understand how to use it.

The military trains lots of people who have never held a pistol, not unlike the thousands of people who just purchased their first pistol. Regardless of weather you have looked to the military for your pistol training or not, it doesn't much matter. They're tasked with taking people from the unwashed masses and giving them enough training to safely use a pistol for SD. Hence the requirement for a manual safety on the new M9 replacement. It's always been that way and will probably never change for the average troop. Mostly they get pistol 101 until they become something other than the average troop. Then they train with Sigs and Glocks. You probably have no idea of the advanced training those folks receive these days.

I had a brief discussion with a Coast Guard dude a few weeks ago about his training and he said he was expert with a Sig P-229. No reason to doubt that. I know that's the lowest qual but he was trained to some level competency.
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Old 11-30-2021, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 44wheelman View Post
You’re overthinking it.
If it’s a good deal: buy it, try it, then keep it or sell it. Not like you’re getting married to it.
I agree and keep this in mind, it won't go bang if you can keep your finger off the trigger. If you can't don't buy it as most striker fired guns will shoot you in the butt without even thinking about it.
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Old 11-30-2021, 12:57 AM
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I have a G19 and a long barreled G17 and like them both. I don't carry either one because the trigger is far too light. The trigger pull on both is about as light as the pull on my S & W revolvers when cocked. I wouldn't eve consider carrying a cocked revolver no matter what holster was used. I also have arthritis in my fingers and hands, and I don't want to be juggling a Glock while making a draw in an emergency situation. My 638, 12 or Charter .44 do just fine for me.
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Old 11-30-2021, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hittman77 View Post
That Glock has the same safety mechanism your J Frame does.

Has anyone ever pulled the trigger on a semi-auto with a safety by accident or mistake? And then said, “Whew …. That was close!”
No sir I have not. Every time I have pulled the trigger on a firearm I expect a bang except when dropping the hammer on an empty chamber. And that sir is where people screw up.
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Old 11-30-2021, 01:32 AM
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Default Too many people equate manual safety to safe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hittman77 View Post
That Glock has the same safety mechanism your J Frame does.

Has anyone ever pulled the trigger on a semi-auto with a safety by accident or mistake? And then said, “Whew …. That was close!”
No sir I have not. Every time I have pulled the trigger on a firearm I expect a bang except when dropping the hammer on an empty chamber. And that sir is where people screw up.
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Old 11-30-2021, 02:04 AM
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"Are Glocks Safe?"
I carried a Glock 19 for many years that I got in the mid/late 80s
As Long as the trigger guard is covered when you carry & you practice trigger discipline you are good to go with the Glock or other striker fired pistols made by many other companies including S&W, My Shield, EZ & SD9 for instance
In fact that goes for ANY Firearm with a hammer or not
Here's My Upcoming Glock 19X
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Old 11-30-2021, 04:30 AM
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You can shoot yourself in the leg with ANY gun if you are careless enough. I know two guys who managed to do so. One was practicing his fast draw with a normally safe gun, the old Savage single shot gun that looks like a single action revolver. The other made a common mistake, drawing a striker fired, cocked and loaded .25 auto from his jeans pocket.
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Old 11-30-2021, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by James E. McCall View Post
I will add my two cents here, long ago maybe 50 years I was going off duty and at my locker( I was carrying my Smith & Wesson Model 39 ) and just taking off my gunbelt when my Lieutenant who had his locker across from me when I heard a bang and the door of my locker which was open and hit with a richochet and the bullet struck me on my tieclasp very lightly and wound up in my hand, and as I turned to him he had a ragged hole down his trousers and a big chunk taken out of his right shoe at the heel. I turned to him shaking as I did so and asked him if this bullet in my hand was his and he stated "yes" as I handed it to him and asked him what had happened and he related that his New carry was a Glock. He is a veteran shooter and I could not believe he had an accidental discharge . He then stated that he was taking it out of his holster and it went off . He then with hands trembling ejected the magazine, pulled the slide back and ejected the round in the chamber, locking the slide back, I asked him if he had any injury and he said no, mean while a whole bunch of our fellow officers came down the stairs and asked what ha happened, well to conclude he had to fill our a form about and accidental discharge and told me later he brought back that Glock to where he bought it and instead bought a Model 39 like mine. Glocks are not safe no matter what anyone says , I know it takes training training and more training but still I will never want one or shoot one ever.
Presumably, an investigation showed that the Glock fired itself, right? As opposed to a finger or holster strap on the trigger somehow activating it as it was drawn? Also, I'm kind of curious how you've been dead set against Glocks since that incident "maybe 50 years" ago when the pistol was introduced in Austria 39 years ago and first imported into the U.S. in 1986 (35 years ago).
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Old 11-30-2021, 08:40 AM
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And think about for a second. There’s only one way his Glock could have fired when he withdrew it from his holster…..his finger was on the trigger.
Not the guns’ fault.
Another negligent, not accidental, discharge.
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Old 11-30-2021, 11:37 AM
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I won't own any of the striker fired plastic fatties. My compact, thin steel 9x18mm pistols are DA/SA, Safe to carry with a HP round chambered & fit varying size pockets. Both Super Accurate & Reliable. See Photos.

(Russian Makarov - in Israeli Ergonomic- Magazine Button, Grips)
(Polish P64 mini-Makarov)
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Old 11-30-2021, 11:40 AM
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I've always liked DA/SA Sigs for that purpose. YMMV.
What about 3rd Gen S&Ws? I really like the DA/SA on them myself. I do like Sigs also.

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Old 11-30-2021, 11:42 AM
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Default Both have their uses.

Buy the Glock and keep the J frame. Use them for different occasions.
I have a S & W 442 with a Crimson Trace laser light that I carry sometimes and a S & W 40 cal. Shield for other occasions.
My Shield is also my nightly TV companion.
I just bought another Shield. It is a S & W 9mm Performance Center with manual safety. I haven't shot it yet but I have done considerable dry firing and fondling. The P. C. grip safety is awful! Maybe I will get used to it when I get around to actually firing it.
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Old 11-30-2021, 11:50 AM
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One thing about the striker fired, I am adamant about keeping them in a holster at all times when loaded. That trigger has to be protected. With a double/single with safety, I don't mind storing the gun on top of the dresser or what not without it being in a holster. I carry my da/sa with it off safe, but anytime it is out of the holster and not being used, the safety is on. Just feels better that way. You don't have to worry as much about picking it up and catching the trigger on something when it has a manual safety turned on.

That being said, I have carried both over the years and have settled on the 3913 as my all time favorite.

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Old 11-30-2021, 12:03 PM
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Glock 26. Perhaps the finest all around pistol I have ever carried. Accurate, reliable, easy to conceal. Truth on the holster issue. I prefer an OWB and this specimen by Sam Andrews is one of the best you can have on your side.
And your selection of mags with capacities ranging from 10-33 rounds is very cool.
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Old 11-30-2021, 05:40 PM
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Are Glocks safe? That kinda depends on what end of the Glock you are on,
doesn't it? I thought it safe enough to give my only Glock, a Model 22 .40
caliber, to my granddaughter who liked it.
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Old 11-30-2021, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James E. McCall View Post
I will add my two cents here, long ago maybe 50 years I was going off duty and at my locker( I was carrying my Smith & Wesson Model 39 ) and just taking off my gunbelt when my Lieutenant who had his locker across from me when I heard a bang and the door of my locker which was open and hit with a richochet and the bullet struck me on my tieclasp very lightly and wound up in my hand, and as I turned to him he had a ragged hole down his trousers and a big chunk taken out of his right shoe at the heel. I turned to him shaking as I did so and asked him if this bullet in my hand was his and he stated "yes" as I handed it to him and asked him what had happened and he related that his New carry was a Glock. He is a veteran shooter and I could not believe he had an accidental discharge . He then stated that he was taking it out of his holster and it went off . He then with hands trembling ejected the magazine, pulled the slide back and ejected the round in the chamber, locking the slide back, I asked him if he had any injury and he said no, mean while a whole bunch of our fellow officers came down the stairs and asked what ha happened, well to conclude he had to fill our a form about and accidental discharge and told me later he brought back that Glock to where he bought it and instead bought a Model 39 like mine. Glocks are not safe no matter what anyone says , I know it takes training training and more training but still I will never want one or shoot one ever.
I agree with the other two posters who took issue with this post. There are too many unanswered questions here to properly make a judgement on this incident. Is Teaneck a place where a lieutenant, who is a "veteran shooter" can just go out and buy a Glock (or any other gun) and decide he is going to carry it? Did he undergo any transition training prior to carrying the Glock?

if he discharged his pistol just taking it out in the locker room, what would have happened if he ever had to draw that pistol to shoot it?

Also, why do you think the Model 39 is so safe? A user needs to be trained to properly use a Model 39, particularly how to decock after firing. We had countless boobs that were caught carrying a cocked 39 in their holster after a full week of training, and of course we had idiots holstering revolvers that were cocked too. Furthermore, the Model 39 was not drop safe, the Glock is.
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Old 11-30-2021, 07:25 PM
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unless I missed this helpful hint in this lengthy thread, no one has suggested this...why fear an AD or ND at all...holster pocket your Glock (or other) striker fired carry gun with no round in the chamber...loaded magazine; it is called Israeli Draw...this procedure can be found online and explained better than me. Many will disagree, but it seems to be safe and sane for me.
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Old 11-30-2021, 07:33 PM
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Carrying a Glock with no round in the chamber is carrying an unloaded gun. You are hoping that you have a chance to use both hands to load your gun in an emergency. Hope seems like a poor strategy when your life is on the line.
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Old 11-30-2021, 08:29 PM
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I have several striker fired weapons. 4 M&P pistols, a Ruger LC9S, and I just bought a Gen 2 Glock 19. All of them have safeties except the Glock. The Glock was bought because it is an NYPD gun from when I carried one and nostalgia got the better of me. It has the NY2 trigger, which is about 11 pounds. I might switch to the NY1 trigger which is 8 pounds. It will be a range gun only.

Strikers are lighter and smaller so they get carried, but I will never feel as comfortable handling a striker fired weapon as I do a gun with a hammer.
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Old 11-30-2021, 08:56 PM
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unless I missed this helpful hint in this lengthy thread, no one has suggested this...why fear an AD or ND at all...holster pocket your Glock (or other) striker fired carry gun with no round in the chamber...loaded magazine; it is called Israeli Draw...this procedure can be found online and explained better than me. Many will disagree, but it seems to be safe and sane for me.
The Israelis did this because when they became an independent nation, their armaments were the leftovers from both World Wars and what could be smuggled in during the British Mandate. There was only one way to come up with a standard practice with that wide variation of weaponry: empty chamber.

It's apparently still in practice due to tradition. Just because it's a tradition doesn't necessarily make it good idea. Just exactly what does one do if the support hand is otherwise occupied when you need a functional firearm? The world's military forces have acceptable casualty rates. What's yours?
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Old 11-30-2021, 10:09 PM
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Maybe the answer if you do not want to use a holster is to carry it with no round in the chamber. I know that makes it very slow to use in responding to a situation.
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Old 12-01-2021, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pantannojack View Post
Some one tell me why a 1911 has 4 (FOUR) safetys and a Glock has NONE.
You are incorrect here. A Glock has THREE safeties.

1. Trigger Safety. To fire the pistol, the trigger safety AND the trigger itself must be deliberately depressed at the same time. If the trigger safety is not depressed, the trigger will not move rearwards and allow the pistol to fire.
2. Firing Pin Safety. the firing pin safety mechanically blocks the firing pin from moving forward. As the trigger is pulled rearward, the trigger bar pushes the firing pin safety up and frees the firing pin channel.
3. Drop Safety. The trigger bar engages the rear portion of the firing pin and prevents the firing pin from moving forward. As the trigger is pulled rearward the trigger bar lowers down the safety ramp and allows the release of the firing pin.

After firing, as the trigger is released, all safeties automatically reengage.
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Old 12-01-2021, 04:20 AM
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Carrying a Glock with no round in the chamber is carrying an unloaded gun. You are hoping that you have a chance to use both hands to load your gun in an emergency. Hope seems like a poor strategy when your life is on the line.
First, the fact that internet pundits keep repeating that "unloaded gun" quip doesn't make it true. The time difference between Condition One/Three firing from a concealment or service holster is not so large as to effect the outcome in the majority of instances.

Second (and this has been pointed out multiple times on this and other forums), racking the slide one-handed is quite doable. I was taught the technique in the early 90s during fairly basic 1911 training in the Navy. We used live ammunition and nobody got hurt! We also trained in Condition One carry, because our Marine instructors knew that there would be situations where we needed to do that.

I would probably carry a round in the chamber with most pistols. I would NEVER consider a person who thought it through, practiced, and carried condition three to be hauling around an unloaded gun.
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Old 12-01-2021, 05:10 AM
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While you were In training with your guns starting with an an empty chamber, and training as to how to chamber a round one handed, was anyone shooting at you really trying to kill you?
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Old 12-01-2021, 07:40 AM
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The question isn't really is a Glock (revolver, derringer, 1911 etc) safe.

The proper question is, is the user?

An untrained, undisciplined or careless person is not safe with an empty muzzle loading pistol.

Case in point some nimrods my one brother knows had about a 12" steel muzzle loading cannon, They proceeded to give it a good charge of shotgun powder and a steel bearing. Luckily no one was struck by the shrapnel.

I myself will stick to my S&W revolvers, because of a life time of familiarity and habits. But, I believe a Glock is safe when the user is.

Last edited by steelslaver; 12-01-2021 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 12-01-2021, 07:44 AM
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You are incorrect here. A Glock has THREE safeties.

1. Trigger Safety. To fire the pistol, the trigger safety AND the trigger itself must be deliberately depressed at the same time. If the trigger safety is not depressed, the trigger will not move rearwards and allow the pistol to fire.
2. Firing Pin Safety. the firing pin safety mechanically blocks the firing pin from moving forward. As the trigger is pulled rearward, the trigger bar pushes the firing pin safety up and frees the firing pin channel.
3. Drop Safety. The trigger bar engages the rear portion of the firing pin and prevents the firing pin from moving forward. As the trigger is pulled rearward the trigger bar lowers down the safety ramp and allows the release of the firing pin.

After firing, as the trigger is released, all safeties automatically reengage.
The “Glock has 3 safeties” is a marketing ploy, designed to sell guns. All. Modern weapons have those same three safeties. The trigger lever covers most of the trigger, and virtually anything that gets into the trigger guard will be enough to pull the trigger. Sure, Nd’s happened before Glock, but they happened more often with Glocks, and other similar striker fired weapons, hence the term Glock Leg.

Glocks are good weapons, but I don’t think of them as beginner weapons or weapons for causal shooters. Tell me one other deadly item that literally markets itself as being so simple anybody can use it.

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Old 12-01-2021, 03:17 PM
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While you were In training with your guns starting with an an empty chamber, and training as to how to chamber a round one handed, was anyone shooting at you really trying to kill you?
No, and no one was trying to kill us when we learned to draw the pistol in Condition One either. Or when we shot weak handed. Or when we practiced flashlight techniques. Or when we shot by the light of a vehicle. Or when we reloaded. Or when we ran between stations on the combat course and fired through windows and around obstacles...
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Old 12-01-2021, 10:53 PM
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Thanks, everyone for the replies. I picked the gun up today and took it to the range with some of my cast bullet reloads.
It could be a while before I ever get serious about carrying this gun. I plan on working up a good CB load for it and killing some steel plates and bowling pins.
That trigger takes an act of volition to make it go off. I feel safe with it. The key is being mindful when you're using it. Just like any other gun.
Recoil was very manageable for such a small 9mm. I shot 71 rounds - no problem. We had fun.
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Old 12-01-2021, 11:16 PM
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Thanks, everyone for the replies. I picked the gun up today and took it to the range with some of my cast bullet reloads.
It could be a while before I ever get serious about carrying this gun. I plan on working up a good CB load for it and killing some steel plates and bowling pins.
That trigger takes an act of volition to make it go off. I feel safe with it. The key is being mindful when you're using it. Just like any other gun.
Recoil was very manageable for such a small 9mm. I shot 71 rounds - no problem. We had fun.
Shooting lead bullets from a Glock is not recommended due to the polygonal rifling. All I shoot are reloads but they’re played and not bare lead like yours.
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Old 12-02-2021, 08:41 AM
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Shooting lead bullets from a Glock is not recommended due to the polygonal rifling. All I shoot are reloads but they’re played and not bare lead like yours.
All depends on who you ask. Know lots of folks that shoot cast and don't have any issues in Glocks. I do know for a fact if you PC your CBs, they work perfect.

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Old 12-02-2021, 08:54 AM
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Why not shoot lead through my Glock? Will it hurt it? The ones I shot were tumble lubed, but I also PC. The bore looked fine. Nice and shiny.

Seems to be a common practice among some shooters:
A warning about the Gen 5 barrels to those who don't know. | Glock Forum - GlockTalk.

Last edited by max503; 12-02-2021 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 12-02-2021, 09:06 AM
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Why not shoot lead through my Glock? Will it hurt it? The ones I shot were tumble lubed, but I also PC. The bore looked fine. Nice and shiny.
I think the problem is with those folks that think you don't have to clean a Glock. They shoot thousands of rounds and never even run a patch thru the bore. If you clean the gun regularly, there are no issues.

I at the very least pull a bore snake through all my guns before I leave the range to knock out any residue and add a light coat of Remoil for rust protection.

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