LOLZ

The most popular round right now is older than .45 ACP and the pistol that shoots uses design cues for the locking system from the 1920s.

__________________
GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

If I were marketing firearms instruction, understanding that my probable clientele were under 40, I would say the same.

My Kimber 1911 would be laughing at me but those I market to would come in droves. The movies they watch all have black semi autos.

__________________
Front sight and squeeze

I bought a .45acp Glock at a gun show years ago. At that time I also had a 3" Ultra Carry Kimber & 5" Gold Combat Kimber.(still have em). I took said Glock to the range to see how wonderful it was. Aside from the lousy trigger & strange grip angle it wouldn't group on a paper plate at 10 yards. Took it home cleaned & lubed and tried again with same results. Best I can say about it was it went bang every time the lousy trigger was pulled. I tossed it on the backseat of my truck where it stayed til the next show. The fact that no one tried to steal it sums up my opinion nicely.

-don

I suppose that I should fess up and admit that I do have a full size Ed Brown in the obsolete stable as well. Someday after a couple of thousand rounds I think it will shoot as well as the Kimber.

__________________
SWCA LM#2190 SWHF#414

Some people take to the Glock, Ruger Mk I/II, Luger P-08 grip angle well, then there's the rest of us who find it odd feeling.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

Wow. Lots of strong feelings here.

Whether you love Larry or hate him, there is no question he knows as much about the 1911 as just about any other person on the planet. He also has seen many thousands of pistols being used by many thousands of individuals. You don’t have to agree with him, but I wouldn’t be quick to dismiss his opinions out of hand.

Another analogy both he and his buddy Ken Hackathorn have used is that if you’re going to treat your gun like you treat your lawn mower (as many people do), then buy a Glock. They’re not wrong. I choose to carry a revolver, but I understand that this requires me to be attentive to its upkeep and maintenance. Grit under the extractor star, a high primer, etc can cause me some very serious problems. The same is true for 1911s that are shot frequently; they require maintenance to stay reliable.

I typically shoot Glocks at action pistol matches, and at the conclusion of a match I’m likely to toss my Glock 17 in the range bag and forget about it until the next match day. I don’t do this when I opt to shoot a Model 10; ditto if I shot a 1911.

I do *not* agree with the statement that one needs to buy a $4K 1911 to get one that “runs” reliably. But I do think the vast majority of folks would be better served by a $500 Glock. If that means the 1911 (or the revolver) is “obsolete,” then so be it. That doesn’t mean we “aficionados” can’t continue to carry whatever the heck we want.

Meh, if the 1911 was a dying platform, then the 2011 wouldn't be hugely popular.



The gun sells and sells very well. Sure, it is double stack and is in 1911. But internally, it is a 1911. As for the traditional slab side .45, it sells well too.

Since I've hanged up the badge, I carry a S&W Model 586 or a Ruger Bisley Vaquero 90% of the time these days with my old beater grade Colt 1991A1 Government Model bringing up the other 10%.

I carried a GLOCK in one flavor or another for the entirety of my LE career and GLOCK is still my "SHTF" pistol. But honestly, as John Q Public now. It is nice to be not restrained to whatever the latest tacticool trends are in the LE world and more importantly, not be tied down by agency policy.

For many people, the 1911 will serve them just fine as a self-defense firearm. 8+1 of .45 ACP is more than enough for the vast majority of encounters. And for those that aren't, that's why you carry an extra magazine or two.

__________________
GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

My $250 beater grade Colt 1991A1.





It works like a champ.

__________________
GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

Meh....Mr Vickers says stuff to bring up his pages views and relevance in Google searches. His opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it....

Find what works for you, and carry it. Don't waste too much time worrying what some expert has to say.

For the record, I carried this over the holiday weekend into dodgy territory along the border. I didn't feel under gunned one little bit.

Attached Images

DSC_0039_zpsfeq1hr2i.jpg (191.4 KB, 365 views)

__________________
On the Oak Savannah

Never seen one that cheap.

If or when the situation maybe would call
for a rifle, but that might be a lit'l ostentation...

I've carried this brace more than once.



///

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

The 1911 has been proving itself for 110 years, that's 110 years of detractors whining about the same old stale BS - it's too heavy, it doesn't hold enough bullets, you'll forget the thumb safety, it's an "expert's" pistol, blah blah blah. Larry Vickers makes money off people listening to him talk and reading what he has to say and he's just one more in a long line of gun writers and trainers repeating those same old complaints and others. In spite of that, he sells his name to Wilson and Springfield so they can put it on their "Vickers" edition 1911s. Oh, and he sells his name so it can be put on Glocks, as well. Larry Vickers sells his name to the highest bidder and his opinions to anyone that will buy them. I've been shooting 1911s for 50+ years, I've carried them for work, for personal defense, and I compete with them. I formed my own opinions on the 1911 based on my own experience long ago, I don't care what Larry Vickers has to say about them, or anything else.

__________________
Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Somewhat ironic that the MSRP for the 1911 with his namesake on it is just $5 short of the $1500 1911 he recommends:

1911 Vickers Tactical Master Class .45 ACP Handgun - Springfield Armory

__________________
Ed

Easy to see who has fired military 1911A-1’s. The uninformed say they are loose and junk. Knew several AMU Sgts that could outshoot 90% of these “ new shooters” with their $2K 1911’s very easy with 1911A-1’s right out of any armory. 90% of accuracy is the shooter, right training and repeated practice makes an excellent shooter.

I grew up shooting rifles and shotguns. That was normal for folks like us. Never really gave handguns much thought.
The first handgun I ever shot was an Army issue 1911A1. I was a bit nervous at first, but just figured go with the basics. Sight alignment and trigger pull. I qualified expert.
It was love at first shot and has been a life long love affair ever since.
I currently own a bunch of 1911s from Long Slides to the little Colt Mustangs. Calibers are .22LR, .380, 9mm, .38 Super and of course, .45acp.
I'm addicted to the 1911. Not long ago I bought a RIA 1911 .45acp. Didn't need it. I certainly have better 1911s already. But I didn't have one and the price was right. So I got just to try it out.

In my experience, as long as you pretty much leave it like JMB designed it, the 1911 is totally reliable and combat accurate. Its when companies start trying to "improve it" that they start getting troublesome.
Guns under around $1000 are generally nothing fancy, but built to the original specs. They shoot well and work as expected. Many are quite surprising as to how well they shoot.
Guns over $2500 are custom built pieces of art. Big bucks buy fine guns.
Its the ones in between that seem to cause trouble. Oh, they do look good. But, they've been tweaked, added to, prettied up and tightened up just enough to make 'em finicky as Hell. These are the ones that caused the unreliability myths.

My primary carry gun for more than 25 years has been a 1959 Colt Commander in .45acp. The gun has been lightly customized, but nothing extravagant. I had it factory refinished about 10-12 years ago. Its been a true and faithful companion.
But, I'm getting old, fat, lazy and don't really go to questionable places anymore. So I admit that these days my most often carried gun is my S&W 642. But my old Colt stands ready if I should feel the need for it.

The 1911 obsolete? I don't think so.

I'm a professional historian, so maybe that colors my feelings about the 1911, or maybe it is being secure in the knowledge that I am a suburban dad and probably not going to engage in a firefight beyond disengagement and escape. Either way, for me the pistol is tool that carries with it a certain style and character as well as being easily carried, accurate and perfectly dependable. I'm hope to goodness to never be in the situation where I need this pistol, but if I do I feel confident with my ability with the 1911.

In a self defense situation , Larry Vickers is not going to save my life . My 1911 will . I have 2 , I bought a Colt Officers model 3.9" barrel , 3 magazine , stainless steel for a " give away " price . Now I have 2 , a Sig and the Colt . I have all I need . I only shoot 230 gr rnd ball ammo , cast or plated . It can / will be effective if called upon . Regards Paul

I'm surprised to see that Larry Vickers wasn't quick to pimp the HK45 as the heir apparent of the 1911, seeing as he was heavily involved in its creation and supposedly had deliberately incorporated the very best features of the 1911 into its design.

__________________
Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

He was killed, but the 1911 did its job for this soldier.

You obviously haven't tried the HK45. It would have been the pistol that replaced the M9 if the JCPP trial had not been cancelled. 50K rounds without a malfunction isn't something a 1911 will do. I shoot both so believe me when I say that.

__________________
That's just somebody talkin.

To the OP, I truly beg to differ, as many others already have. The 1911 in it's original form is every bit as reliable as the current crop of plastic, well, junk. It's the "$3500 dollar" tricked out, tightened up, and otherwise altered 1911's that can be prone to all sorts of reliability issues. I have a bone stock Series 70 Government Model, two 1911-A1 Remington Rands, a 1911-A1 Ithaca, and a Colt 1991-A1. I will guarantee you that each and every one will chew through mag after mag of any ammo you'd care to feed them, shiny clean new stuff, or tarnished dirty old surplus, and fast as you'd care to pull the trigger.

I'm at least willing to depend on and carry the 1911 or a K-Frame Smith & Wesson.

Looking like this endless crop of current plastic, tacti-cool, DAO, striker fired, cheap-o pistol baggage being marketed now is like staring down a hall of school lockers ...
https://www.makeitgrateful.com/wp-co...ns-768x512.jpg
.... and about as inspiring.

As a footnote to my earlier post, I assume by your logic that a stubby AR15 covered with a myriad of rails, sharp edges, TV screens, satellite dishes, flashlights, and other "tactical" doo-dads is "better" than a M1a, Garand, or even a Mini 14? Let's put up a steel plate at 5 or 600 yards, and see what's what. I've seen plenty of 50 and 100 yard "groups" from this current crop of "Tacticrap" at my local range that are just hilarious. Minute of hubcap...

That's a great comparison, and yes, in many of the same ways that polymer striker guns compare favorably to the 1911, the AR-15 platform and similar rifles compare favorably to the Garand, M14, and the Mini-14.

I love my Garand, my M1 carbine, and all the older stuff. In fact, they make it out to the range more than my modern stuff, because I find them more fun. I can also understand that in the same way as the 1911/glock comparison of the OP, that there are many reasons (size, weight, capacity, recoil, weight of ammunition, reliability, modularity, ease of optics/IR laser mounting, cost, durability of materials/lower risk of rust or furniture swelling, etc.) that militaries and police have ditched my favorites for ARs and Glocks and other similar options. It doesn't matter for us, but it's ok to accept that gun tech marches on and does make a difference to some.

Satellite dishes. ROFL.

I call all that stuff "bling".

Since we are on the subject..

Attached Images

20151210_115826.jpg (99.1 KB, 56 views)

Just completed this year's LEOSA qualification with my SR1911. The other retiree who shot with me had his Colt 1911. Neither of us had any problems. In fact, the range master commented that it was nice to see some real guns for a change. I guess I'm just old and stubborn, but a 1911 suits me better than any high capacity .380 magnum.

To each his or her own, but at the end of the day can any gun in the hands of a proficient user really be 'obsolete'? In the extremely rare instance where an armed engagement occurs the whole idea is to hit what you need to hit as quickly as possible, and the possibility of a protracted gun battle in which dozens of rounds are expended is about as likely as winning the lottery. This, like many topics, can be debated until the end of time without resolution. Perhaps the best approach is 'you do you, I'll do me'.

Hell, I still carry a Single Action clone as my CCW piece.

__________________
GOA FL Dir. & Nat. Spokesman

Please excuse me while I add my .02 cents. Thirty years ago, I carried either a .380 Makarov or my 640 ND .38 Spl. If I wore one, the other was in my briefcase. NEVER had to use one in a self defense situation.

When the burglar alarm went off at my office at 2:30AM, and I had to go meet the Police on-site, I did not reach for my Makarov or the J-frame, I took my 1911A1 in .45 acp., as there were no guarantees that I would arrive on-site after the Police were there. Still never needed to use it (Thank the good Lord), but having it there, and knowing it was (to quote another member of this forum) "Bet you life reliable" (as proven on numerous range trips) made me feel a whole lot better!

When I carry a .45 acp today, I wear a model 457, also "bet your life reliable!"

Going to a potential gun fight and carrying for self defense warrants different tools for sure.

I suppose some may consider revolvers obsolete. I pity the fool that challenges Jerry Miculek when he is carrying a revolver.

Wouldn't it be great if we could all shoot revolvers Like JM? I have a 625 JM. For some reason it's never been quite as fast as Jerry's.

I'm just pulling you chain. I love revolvers. I'm looking for a 44 special Bisley as I write this.

__________________
That's just somebody talkin.

Read every post,for and against. Us gray hairs have owned or shot the worse and the best handguns. We are forgetting many factors that the young men and women buyer's are facing today. Political correctness. They DO NOT WANT anyone outside of there small circle, to know that they are into or possess firearms. If it gets out on social media they are toast. It is a new age. Small,Light, easy concealed.

I’ve kilt a lot of pop cans with these. I’m happy

Surprised the heck out of me when I qualified Expert in the Army with a rattle-trap worn out 1911A1. I have pretty much always had a 1911. My Sistema 1927 is a hardball only proposition, my Pre-Series 80 Colt Combat Commander has been 100% after tweaking the extractor, and my Colt Officer's ACP shows why short barrels and John Browning's system don't go well together.

In other words, I have a love/hate relationship with the 1911. (Just as I do with almost every other pistol type.)

__________________
Only a cold warrior

I have one semi auto other than a couple 22s. I is a RUGER light weight Commander SR1911. Did not pay anywhere $3500 for it. In fact I could have bout about 4 of them for that at the time. It is accurate, has never jammed or had a FTF with any of the magazines I have for it. What more could I want from it.

I stayed at a Holiday in TWICE

To put a sharp point on the Glock vs 1911 as a defensive hand gun debate.

A lot more graves have been filled by 1911s than by Glocks and it will be along time before that changes if ever.

Back 50+ years ago I won an all-expense paid, no tuition trip to the exotic jungles of Southeast Asia. I was issued a green suit, a butter bar, and a 1911. The first time I got into serious social trouble, the 1911 got my butt out of it. Can't say the same for Mr. Colt's plastic fantastic made by Mattel, its swell rifle. During several other situations, the 1911 was very comforting to have. No, it didn't knock people down or throw them back like Dirty Harry's .44 Magnum, but as a previous poster said, it made big holes in bad guys. It was reliable if you took care of it and cleaned it, and it fed .45 cal 230 grain ball ammo reliably.

When I came home on leave between my first and second tours, my father insisted I take his S&W 1917 with me because he had read how unreliable the 1911 was. So the old war horse saw its 3rd war under our family's ownership.

I still have 1911's, but I don't carry them for the same reason I don't carry the 1917 - I don't want it rusting away in a police evidence locker if I had to use it. That's what Hi Points are for.

I dunno, I think you are under-prepared. If you are going to rely upon the Model 1911, you really need 8 of them and I see only 7.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

I’m not a 1911 nut. That’s only because in last 50+ years I had no use for one. Not that I didn’t have occasional 1911 on trade. I even had a Target gun built on a GI Colt. I have a small horde of S&W revolvers. Nothing I would want to carry.
So because of social issues of today I decided I needed a weapon. I never saw a GI have problems other than bad mags or ammo. I carried one in a place it would rust over night in the holster. It never failed or do I know of any around me that did.
A 1911 or S&W m10 are two handguns that are world class. I’m talking about Mil contract 1911s and S&W HEs before beancounters & MIM.

I love and will never abandon my 1911s for ANY of these polymer monstrosities.


Thousands of rounds with only a handful of failures directly attributed to bad magazines.


Keep your plastic toys.

__________________
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994

Having worked and deployed with SPECIAL OPERATORS most of my 23 year career, I will tell you they see a handgun as a defensive last resort weapon .They want the most lightweight gun they can find because they are HIGH SPEED ,LOW DRAG OPERATORS. Many I know own 1911 in .45 but would NEVER deploy with one. They carry SIG P226 or GLOCK in 9mm.
I am wearing a LES BAER 1911 in .45 right now and do every day unless I am wearing MOD 29 or 57. The 1911 in .45 will never go out of style for me and many more. BEST MAN KILLING PISTOL MADE.

__________________
V/r,
Markham

The reason some folks have problem with 1911 in .45 is they do not keep the RAMP clean. You do not need to clean the barrel often but you MUST clean the RAMP. After about 25 rounds take the corner of your handkerchief wrap around your little finger , lock the slide back and clean the ramp. Failure to feed and stovepipes are mostly due to DIRTY RAMPS!

__________________
V/r,
Markham

They are objectively outdated for defensive use due to weight, capacity, and reliability.

If people like them that's fine but it's for emotional and sentimental reasons.

I have several 1911 .45 cal and two others that I also have a few thousand of rounds thru that I can comfortably rely on, A Sig P220 and a Kimber Pro Carry II.

Rob

I keep thinking that I should sell my Colt MK IV Series 80 Government Model. Then I take it to the range.

Expert:

An "ex" is a has-been. A "spurt" is a drip under pressure. So an "expert" is a has-been drip under pressure.

A person with more data than judgment.

A person who avoids small error as he sweeps on to the grand fallacy.

A specialist who knows everything about something, and nothing about anything else.

Where facts are few, experts are many.

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

__________________
Bill

Hahahaha! But Glock is cutting edge for coming out with a single stack 9mm.

Weight is meaningless, proper equipment negates any weight issues, or you can choose an aluminum framed 1911. Modern 1911s are arguably the best built ever thanks to modern metalurgy and machining, reliability of a properly cleaned and lubricated 1911 with quality magazines is on par with anything else on the market. I spent many years in law enforcement watching Glocks, Berettas, M&Ps, etc fail in training and qualifying. Yet, somehow, my 1911s continued to run just fine, never failing me.

Any reliable, reasonably accurate modern handgun qualifies for self defense use simply by being reliable and reasonably accurate. A 1911 is fine handgun for defensive carry, as is a J-frame S&W snubby, a Glock (insert number here), a Sig whatever, or any one of scores of others on the market today. More important is the user's familiarity and comfort with a particular design and their willingness and ability to deploy it if need be.

__________________
Don't kiss smiling dogs!

A cheap, easy and guaranteed way to get free publicity in the handgun world is to bash 1911s.
Yes, there are more modern guns, duh. We hadn't been to the moon yet.

Glock leg? Yes.
1911 leg? Never heard of it.

Just to lighten the mood. Just for fun, a laugh maybe. 😎
Disclaimer…i don’t own a Glock, but I do own a 1911.

...and that's your opinion and your stickin' to it.

I particularly like weight, care not one whit for the vaunted high capacity, and it was the 1911 gun, whether in Colt Government Model or US military contract guises, for those were the only 1911 guns one could get back in the 1960s when I was young, the 1911 gun which had the reputation for reliability in our family's members. I've yet to see a reason to question that reputation.

It was THE .45 automatic then and is THE .45 automatic now. I can do emotional attachment and sentimentality with the best of 'em, but will pragmatically add practicality, dependability, ergonomics, and accuracy.

And, that's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

I have always wondered if a bunch of the posts on the Glock Forum are about Smith and Wessons and Colt’s???

__________________
Possum—The other white meat!