Many have a real or imagined romance with the 1911 .45ACP. While there is nothing wrong with the .45ACP caliber, according to Larry Vickers, you may want to find another pistol platform to shoot it from.

That's essentially the message ex- Delta Force, author and now self defense gun instructor Larry Vickers tells his students. Larry Vickers goes on to say that he has seen about every make and model of 1911 in his classes, along with every type of failure to fire, jam, and failure to feed situation that you can possibly think of with the 1911 and his end message to students is this; "Unless you have $3,500+ to spend on a well fitted and tuned 1911 as well as understand exactly what ammo it personally likes to feed & eat best then, just go buy a Glock!"

Every time I think about getting another 1911 I think about Larry Vickers message and instead turn my thoughts to a more modern designed .45 ACP that holds twice the ammo while still being nimble and, most importantly, goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger. Oh, and for $3,500 I could buy a several decked out modern polymer pistols with money left over for .45 ACP ammo versus owning a minimal acceptable 1911 while praying I can locate the exact manufacture and bullet weight my specific 1911 is reliable with (more challenging to do today with ammo shortages). Yes, there is no denying that a forged steel, hand fitted 1911 with a trigger that breaks like glass is a beautiful piece of mechanical engineering, but for serious work perhaps it's better for such 1911's to reside as vault queens in 2021 .

I wonder who has made the journey into the world of 1911 platform pistols and then left for other more modern pistol platforms which exhibit better reliability, increased ammo capacity, are less picky about ammo to feed, are more nimble and have the ability to add red dot sights, lights, etc.? Conversely, if you journeyed into the world of 1911's and decided to stay primarily with the 1911 platform, what makes you stay when the evidence seems overwhelming that a more modern pistol platform just has too many advantages to over look ?

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Live long and prosper

None of my 1911s are finicky. They shoot everything reliably except 185 gr jacketed wadcutters (lead wadcutters are fine), which aren't defense ammo. They are all reliable, accurate, and didn't cost $3500.

I've shot Glocks, still own 0. About the only good thing about them is they're cheap and could almost be considered disposable. Not giving up my 1911 for a Fisher-Price quality trigger.

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Common sense isn't so common.

1911s for the range are fine and dandy.

1911s for carry are obsolete. Too heavy and low capacity. Firearms innovation have far surpassed the 100 + year old design.

I’m 63 and I carry a dbl stack 1911 every day! Never shot a Glock and never will!

The reality is, we have made many DIFFERENT guns than the 1911, but I do not believe we have made any BETTER ones.

Whatever gun one chooses to carry is a personal decision. Having proficiency and the right training and mindset is most important in my mind. I’ve started shooting 9mm 1911’s and enjoy them. Slightly more capacity than a .45acp 1911. With an aluminum frame Commander style guns can weigh several ounces less than 5 inch steel government model. One of the hottest guns on the market right now is the Staccato 2011 which is in essence a higher capacity 9mm 1911. Every choice is a compromise. And a personal comfort level choice.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

Why would I care what Larry Vickers thinks?

I usually carry a revolver, but I would be equally happy with this 76 year old Remington Rand.

Is a Glock better? Of course not.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

I have a Sig 1911 that was a birthday present yrs ago . It has never failed to perform flawlessly . I only shoot 230 gr round ball , either plated or cast . Yes , it's only a 8 shot or 8+1(one in chamber) . I clean it after every range session . Something that I do with my revolvers as well .
If you want to talk about " jam o matics " I will tell you about what I witnessed when I took my LTC class in Dallas . The guy next to me had a Glock 19 , it was a jam-0-matic . Glocks are fine weapons so I will divest my opinion that it probably needed a good cleaning or maybe it was his ammo . He brought it in a zip lock bag so I suspicion reloads . We were told NO reloads and only bring Federal American Eagle or Winchester White Box . He must of been a friend of the instructor as he always looked the other way during the range session . My revolver , S&W 686 worked well and shot about the most accurate of the entire class . A gun is just a tool and if you don't take care of it , it will let you down , any tool . Regards Paul

I have owned and carried quite a few 1911s. I had a Glock for a very short time as a police officer. It had four malfunctions in one qualification shoot and I got rid of it. I went back to a 1911 and carried it until I retired. I will still carry my Ruger SR1911 sometimes. It is accurate and reliable, but it can be a little heavy. The easiest 45 I have to carry is the Shield45.

I have found that the 1911 is very reliable when used in the manner for which it was designed. With 230 grain ball loads, a properly made 1911 runs great. Substitute cheap, cast steel parts for things like the extractor or cheap magazines and it becomes a different story. Magazines play a vital role in the 1911's reliability. There are a bunch of different style followers and feed lips. The original design works great with ball ammo, not as well with SWC or hollow point loads. A magazine with hybrid feed lips often solves this issue. The original barrel feed ramp is perfect for ball ammo, but widening the ramp helps with other bullet profiles.

In short, the 1911 can run perfect, but with so many cheap parts and cheap magazines substituted for what should be there, it gets a bad rap.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I'm 80 yrs. old and as near as I can figure I've been shooting about 76 yrs. In the 60s I owned, traded and shot several military .45 autos. I only shot ball in them but I never had any kind of problem with them. In 1967 I wanted something nicer so I bought a new Colt "C" .45 auto. Since then I've used several brands of ball plus military ball and reloaded 200 gr. SWC with 6-7.2 grs. of Unique and the gun has never missed a lick. If there has ever been a better .45 auto I would like to see it.
I also own a P220 Sig. but it will go before my Colt.
My experience means more to me than Larry Vickers opinion. Larry

50 years from now when most of those “modern” designs have obsolete for decades and finding parts is all but impossible, people will still be marketing 1911s. And we’ll still having the same argument that finally the 1911 is no longer relevant.

I have never had any problem with a 1911 and the 1943 I have runs like a fine tuned machine on round nose bullets.

This reminds me of what I’ve heard about aircraft:

“When they deliver the last 747 to the boneyard, there will be a DC-3 there to pick up the crew.”

Never heard of Larry Vickers.

I didn't buy a 1911 until I had been shooting handguns for around 45 years. Finally felt like buying one a few years ago - a Colt Competition. Many hundreds of rounds of 230 gr hardball, both factory and my reloads, and not a single malfunction.

Honestly, I haven't bonded with the gun, for some reason. It's probably the least favorite handgun in my stable. But it's also the one I shoot the best. Don't own a Glock. Don't like the way they fit my hand, or the way they feel when I'm shooting one.

And other than a Colt Peacemaker, nothing says AMERICA like a Colt 1911.

I have been shooting 1911's since I joined the Navy in 1960.
I like revolvers but for a semi auto it's the 1911 for me.
Striker fire gun's suck as far as I'm concerned......

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

I have 1942 mix and match 1911-a1 that I bought about 91-92. It was an import from Korea or the Philippines it was rough but functional. Money was tight and I was new to handguns. So I dug thru buckets of 1911 parts at gun shows to find a nm barrel and bushing. I replaced the the trigger, hammer, sear,sights and springs as time and money permitted. I’ve put 15k round thru this gun with out a hitch. It will feed a resized empty case from the mag. I’ve also used this gun to defend myself twice(no shots fired thank god). I respect Mr. Vicker opinion but he was no where to found when I had to draw my pistol.
Ps I seen 2 glock 40s&w’s detonate the slides from the frames.

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Dave
Regulators mount up!

Sing it........

I've had three. First was a very run and beat WW2 surplus 1911 (don't remember the label), back in the early 80's. Shot ok, but sold it. Bought a brand new Randall Stainless 1911. Bad trigger, only ok accuracy. Rattled and felt loose. Sold it.

Third was an impulse purchase. LGS shooting range had an RIA 1911 A1 FS, recently tagged by the owner $200 off. I paid cash, and walked it into the shooting range immediately. Shot 50 rounds of their rental 230Gr ball, all in the black at 5, 10, and 15 yards, and zero problems. I brought it home two years ago. It's my go-to in my HD setup.

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Heavily armed old man.

Even the A2 frames? My 1911A2 holds 16+1 of 10mm.

They’re so tired and unreliable going on 111 years?

Firearms instructor? Meh.

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Sure you did

Larry Vickers? Bleh! Just because he's ex-Delta Force, has written some books, and now a firearms instructor doesn't necessarily mean his opinion is gospel. His opinion is just that...his opinion.

When you take into consideration all those countless times when the 1911 has proven successful, Vickers is in the minority.

If the good ol' boys in Delta Force want to carry something different...fine. Most people don't face those types of situations on an everyday basis. Nine times out of ten situations that John Q. Public will find himself in, the 1911 will be more than sufficient.

I only own three 1911's and each one has performed flawlessly. I gave another one to my son-in-law who has used it extensively. He once told me, "Dad, I will never get rid of this gun!"

I think Larry Vickers is "blowing smoke." Of course, that's just my opinion...but I'm not ex-Delta Force.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

There is a reason the 1911 is 110 years old. It works.

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Heavily armed old man.

Who died and left Larry Vickers Boss???????? He' just one man spouting his opnion..........Which has ZERO effect on the rest of the world. Suggest OP become and engine and not a caboose.

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S&W Accumulator

Quick quote: “Unless you have $3,500+ to spend on a well fitted and tuned 1911 as well as understand exactly what ammo it personally likes to feed & eat best then, just go buy a Glock!"

Okay, I understand he was speaking to students who have paid to take a defensive shooting class. I get that.

Here’s what I don’t get… why is it most threads on gun forums are always about “end of days” and fire fights and near death experiences?

I had thought that many here are like me… pick a gun to carry and then the next 35 guns I buy are all purely for the enjoyment of shooting.

1911’s are fantastic. I carry something else. For enjoyment on the range, ANYTHING may apply. And while I know that I can defend myself with a handgun, I’m a recreational shooter, I’m not an operator on an anti-terrorist team.

I've owned plenty of 1911s, and most of them have been pretty darn reliable (and never in the $3,500 range). None of them have ever been quite Glock 19 reliable, but the most reliable of them (Dan Wesson Specialist, Dan Wesson A2, Springer MC Operator, and a RIA GI model) were certainly reliable enough that I'd not hesitate to carry any of them.

It is also true that the 1911 is large, heavy, and low capacity. There are higher capacity options, more accurate options, safer options, lighter options, smaller options, and all manner of other improvements available with other pistol designs made in the last 110 years.

Vickers had a career where those improvements we have now could have made a real difference to him and his friends, and he (mostly) speaks with that in mind. There have been attempts to breathe new martial life into the 1911, the best examples that come to mind being the MEUSOC program and its eventual offspring the M45, with an honorable mention to things like the FBI's HRT 1911 program that got us the Springfield Professional (still want one), but eventually those programs always go quietly away and the groups with the options wind up Glock 19s or similar.

Vickers is right that the Glock 19 (or honestly plenty of other similar pistols) beat out the 1911 platform for martial and other serious uses, and I'm sure there are people on this forum for whom that the differences between the two could matter. For most of us, it really doesn't, just as the difference between revolvers and autos will never matter to most of us. It's ok to carry or love whatever guns we want while recognizing that time marches on.

Tlhih do parha' yol.

Live long and perspire Puller.

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Alden
Guns N' Rosés

There again just spouting your opinion. Since when does one need elevendy dozen rounds to end a gun fight? Ever been in a gun fight. Tell us about it.
And fact is lots of us still carry revolvers.......And the only hold SIX ROUNDS.

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S&W Accumulator

Vickers is an interesting guy. One can go to Wilson Combat for a Larry Vickers 1911. Great gun. He has a company that sells parts for Glocks or you can buy a special edition Larry Vickers model Glock. This same thread could be about carrying revolvers. Your j-frame only holds 5 rounds and is antiquated, blah,blah. But it’s better than no gun or one you are unfamiliar with. And the reality is that God willing, no one on this forum will be in a shootout in 2022. But if any of you are, hopefully you will have a gun that you’ve practiced with, had training, and are successful.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

I must admit the irony that I carry a Vickers Tactical Master Class 1911 yet he said this.

That said, I have kept up with Larry Vickers in his teachings and training and without context yes he says "buy a glock, the 1911 can be finicky" or words to that sentiment.

In context he adds that if you are someone who doesnt properly maintain your weapons or someone who doesnt want to get in depth cleaning them, keeping them well lubed...that a 1911 is not for you, which I 100% agree with.

A 1911, can be very picky (dont necessarily agree on the $3,500 price tag as mentined) but they require extra care, lube, cleaning. A Glock requires less. So I do agree with Larry, if you just want something easy which you dont have to keep up with...a Glock works......

Ill keep my 1911's

OK, now I’m ready

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Sure you did

I have a GI 1911 (CMP) and a Colt GC Trophy. I don't shoot the CMP Remington/Colt because I have the Colt GCT. As far as I know the CMP 1911 hasn't been fired since the arsenal rebuild. Don't know when that was but chances are it was 60's-70's

I can tell you this because I also have an HK45. That's the new 45 ACP. It was developed for modern day military spec. It has polymer frame and will shoot any 45 acp ammo you want it to. The slide isn't cut for a RDS but there are smiths that can do that. It can attach a laser or light. That meets my needs because dots are for the range and comp, not SD.

If you don't own and and shoot an HK45 please don't offer any opinions about how it compares to a 1911. There's a hundred years of innovation there that can't be side stepped. Thanks.

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That's just somebody talkin.

as a trainer / teacher I see his point of view... Glocks require less training.. no trigger control knowledge required.. less reload issues... and they run... but have terrible grip ergonomics in my opinion.. I have been shooting 1911's since the mid 1970's when my father carried a Commander and competed with a 70 series Goldcup.. I have several but don't carry one... the 1911 requires a shooter's mentality.. not the tacticool summer camper attention span... simply the glock works for 90%... I live in the 10% and am fine that way...

I’ve shot and carried 1911’s for 30 years. I’ve had malfunctions. I’ve also had malfunctions with Glock’s, Sig’s, HK’s, Browning’s, as we all as Colt and S&W revolvers.

You shoot enough rounds through a gun and it will have malfunctions.

Vicker’s statements around the 1911 are related to maintaining and operating 1911’s. I have low end 1911’s and High-end. They all require some level of maintenance. Even my Sig 365 require a little TLC now and then.

Let me add my two cents!

Has the ATF returned Vicker's machine gun collection yet?

I like the 1911 platform. In fact, my first handgun was a used Colt Mk IV Series 70, purchased in 1976 for $125. I still have that Colt, and I have yet to have a malfunction. I don't know how many 200gr SWCs I have fired in it. An issued 1911 saved my bacon in one of the first sandbox adventures. I have since added a Springfield Trophy Match for 2700 matches (purchased new in the late '90s). I have since added a Ruger SR1911CMD (45), and an ATI FX9 (commander, purchased as a 38 Super switch barrel project). None of these 1911s have even had a hiccup! Had I not won a P365, that Ruger would be my "go to" carry piece!

Yes, I do own a few Glocks which I use for GSSF matches. I am not a die hard Glock fanatic, but I am shooting them well enough in the matches where I can offset either my ammo cost or entry fees. Would I carry a Glock? I honestly don't know. Capacity is meaningless, since I live in a 10 round max state, but I'd rather get the job done with just 1 round as opposed to having to depend on follow-up shots!

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Judge control not gun control!

My first pistol, back in 1995, was a brand new Colt M1991A-1. I have fired thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds thru it, including many hollow points, without a malfunction. The only “upgrades” I ever made were a steel mainspring housing and some Ahrends cocobolo grips.

Although I primarily carry a revolver, I also have complete confidence in my Colt 1911’s. I don’t carry my 1991 anymore because it has too much sentimental value, but I do carry my Colt Gunsite Pistol. The only upgrade I felt it needed was, once again, some Ahrends grips.

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Wheel guns are real guns.

Spicy.....

I have an opinion about 1911's. Allow me to express myself. I'll always have one or two. I like them for the history and the touchstone to the past. They're iconic to say the least. As a modern day firearm for SD they lack some features that I think are necessary. If all you want is a range pistol it works, but for military or LE, it's out. Has been for awhile.

1911 is a horse/cavalry pistol. The only reason the US military kept it around for so long is they had millions of them in inventory left over from WW2. They still have 65k in US army crates that will go to the CMP......maybe.

Get one while congress still allows it. It's a piece of history just a like P08 Lugar or a SAA Colt.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Larry who?

"I stayed at a Holiday End last night Vickers'".

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That's just somebody talkin.

So, I actually borrowed the original post from another forum that someone else had posted. His post got a pretty good rise out of the 1911 crowd. . . kind of like here. I've never even heard of Larry Vickers and have no clue who he is.

Pretty much what I've learned is folks like to defend their favorite firearm. From 1911's to J-frames to Glocks to Sigs to even a SAA thrown in. People just don't like for their favorite shooting iron to be criticized whatever it may be.

Personally, I'm a 1911 fan and own a couple myself. Although I prefer to carry a Glock for concealed carry, I still like my 1911s.

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Live long and prosper

No that's funny!!!!!!!!!!! Best thread in this post.

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S&W Accumulator

Old proverb..........Don't believe anything you read and 1/2 of what you see.

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S&W Accumulator

I have a special crusher I built to get rid of 1911s and turn them into boot scrapers. Please send all your unwanted 1911s and I will put you on the waiting list for the scrapers as there is quite a demand....

So why didn't you quote that post from another forum and add your own comment about it?

Just trolling the gang here?

We get enough of that without you looking for some cheap thrills.

Aren't you clever? Ignore list for you amigo. Hasta La Vista DH.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Well said.
I haven't tried much 185 gr ammo in my two 1911's. I like the 230gr stuff. What little I have shot was no problem. They cost about 10% of that $3500 price tag.
I don't own any Glocks and haven't shot one. But I have a 457, and a PT145 and they weren't more than $350 apiece either.
If the price of entry into a reliable 1911 really is $3500 then it probably is time to forget them.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Larry Vickers said the glock 21 is a dog and my experience leads me to believe otherwise.

I have a range from $400 to $3900 1911s, non are for sale especially the $400 one. I'll keep my 1911s. I do have an assortment of other firearms to scratch the itch of whatever I want to shoot or carry.

To me the 1911 is a piece of art. My oldest is a 1913 with the original scabbard.

Puts big holes in bad guys... How is that obsolete?

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Chief

I carried a compact 1911 for a couple decades. Now it's a G19.

16>7.

That's obsolescence.

It's 2022.