I’m thinking this is directed at me. [I see you edited your second post to make it clear it was directed at me. Further. You have added “even demonstrative “ to you description of what either a prosecuting or defense attorney decides is useful evidence - because if neither thought it would be useful evidence, it would never be introduced at trial.]

If so, you are changing topics.

Let’s start with ignorance of the role of an attorney, topic of your prior post. Yes, an attorney worth his salt will research every aspect of applicable law, but he will also do the same with regard to every fact, something you ignore. A good defense or prosecution attorney will know the (alleged) facts better than the back of his hand.

In this, your second, follow on post, you mention “enormous amounts of real and testimonial evidence.” Attorney’s on both sides are duty bound to know and understand every aspect of, “real and testimonial evidence.” Moreover, it is attorneys on each side who develop and determine what is “enourmous amounts of real and testimonial evidence,” with the judge overseeing and having the last word.

Juror interviews post verdict are normal, expected, regular order for both prosecution attorneys and defense attorneys.

I could go on and on, but I’d prefer not to.

If you carry a Colt Gold Cup with a 4.5lb crisp trigger and you put a heavier recoil/mainspring in, to shoot factory ball, would that be considered a bad mod?
Worse than using Pachs?

Long ago in a conversation about collaborating on a 1911 grip making project with Pachmayr I said to him, "why would anybody carry a 1911 into the field without a pair of your rubber wraparounds especially when fishing".

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

I like it!

Any attorney can question anything (within the rules). If they build their foundation carefully, they might just be able to get testimony in about how many firearms (and of what type) you own, how much ammunition you have, whether you are a member of IPSC and IDPA, subscribe to 'Combat Handguns' ("officer, please describe what you found at the defendant's home") etc.

Yes, I was responding specifically to your post.

Indeed, I edit newly posted topics often when I recall something intended to mention, or to correct misspellings, because of poor typing skills. I'm sure adding the mention of charts/graphs (examples of demonstrative evidence) changed the post enormously.

Where's the firearms data from the juror interviews? Can anyone access it? What data is gathered? Reliable information has some replicable, reliable method of verification.

Go read the attorney’s opinion you previously disregarded.

Personally, I love, “You modified your trigger to be more lethal…” “Eh, I shot him with my target revolver.”

Haha! Some of you fellas are taking the Great Grantham Gunfighter a little too seriously!

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
Prosecuting attorney after bringing up comments in this thread,
"So your gun was not modified so you would be less apt to be convicted when you used it to kill?"

I am lucky enough to be able to bounce stuff off a real attorney pretty much anytime I want.

I just find it hilarious that while some who worry about having something like modified grips on their carry gun while making statements on the net. Besides that, if it goes very far it will not be just your carry gun but could be every gun, holster and round of ammo you own. Plus bring up every statement you ever made on the net, to your co worker or whoever they question. The crank next door. In fact same thing goes for this statement "I only carry a cheap gun cause if I use it it will be tied up in evidence. News flash. They may well come to your house and take them all and if you are indicted on a felony you can not possess them until you are found innocent anyway

Thank you, I did read it.

The data. Where is the data? And where are the case citations?

Assertions of fact without a means to objectively verify them don't impress me.

Contained within his opinion.

Want citations, ask him, they’re his clients.

So there are none available. Thought so.

...wouldn't that info then be covered by attorney client privilege?

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Army Ranger with combat experience.

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Smith, and Wesson, and Me.

No. If it in court records it’s public info not subject to privilege.

Roughly, Attorney-client privilege is limited to non public information provided by the client to the attorney and legal advice provided by the attorney to the client.

You want it? Ask for it. You may be surprised.

I think I’ll drop him an email and we can compare results.

Btw, please cite all of the cases supporting your opinion.

The two anecdotes you mention in an earlier post are hard to track down without citation.

Why would I care? If there are verifiable results specifically on firearm modifications, please post them.

Here is the civil commitment case:

8 P.3d 863 (2000)
129 N.M. 376
2000-NMCA-072
STATE of New Mexico, Plaintiff-Appellee,
v.
Charlie TAYLOR, Defendant-Appellant.

Here is the video of the Albuquerque PD killing:
Video: APD releases HelmetCam footage of shooting - YouTube
2 Albuquerque officers charged with murder in shooting | Fox News
DA: Perez, Sandy will not face retrial - Albuquerque Journal

Here is the investigation and consent decree:
https://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...s%20Letter.pdf
Investigation into Albuquerque Police Department at 'The following links are available'
Page not found | DOJ | Department of Justice
https://www.cabq.gov/mental-health-r...ment-final.pdf

I'm looking forward to you posting your verifiable resource documents.

Thanks for the cite and other info.

The fact pattern isn’t what I thought it was from your earlier post, I thought it involved a self defense shooting. Those officers were fortunate they weren’t convicted.

Do you have a cite to the second case you mentioned, which, iirc, involved a wife shooting a husband in self defense?

I suspect attorneys in gun shootings will pick apart the aspects of the firearm itself when that's the strongest evidence they have to work with. In other words, if they have a good case for an bad shooting what difference does a 5 lb vs a 10 lb trigger make?

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Live long and prosper

Perhaps you should brush up on reading comprehension.

You asked; I delivered. Until you provide data you and I are done.

What? More bad examples that don't fit the topic? Anybody else see a pattern here?
Color me shocked.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

So, again, it boils down to this. Who to trust and listen to. The options here are easy.

Random guy(s) on internet.

Compared to.

Those that have spent their lives doing so. Those that are trained, educated, experienced practitioners, and are nationally recognized experts in the field. Those that try/defend the cases, are the recognized subject matter experts, regularly give testimony, do presentations and training, and are the "go to" people for such cases.

Well, I know who I would trust and listen to.

You delivered nothing on topic. You provided a cite and additional info on one of two of your anecdotes and the one you delivered wasn’t a self defense shooting, it was a pretty clear second degree murder by police, with a hung jury.

I have a Kel Tec P-11 that has a long heavy double action trigger however its very reliable so I leave it alone. I dont like messing with EDC guns and the only heavy trigger EDC gun I ever had work done was my S&W 640 and it was S&W that did all the trigger work and parts.

Because it works. Don't need no fancy schmancy self defense ammo to do what ball has been doing for years.
More importantly, it is cheap and easier to find than the flying ashtrays ot zombie killers..

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Forum consigliere

Sandwich board worthy.👍

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

I bought my first 1911 in 1972 , a 70 Series Government model in .45 . Still have it . First thing I did to it was add an adjustable trigger , it's set at 4 pounds with 0 slack . Never had an accidental discharge , yet. I also added adjustable night sights , a modest beavertail, and extended safety. The only thing I regret was the safety as the man that fit it did a poor job and it is too easy to accidentally knock it off . Probably will put the original back in since I no longer shoot IDPA and feel no need for the fraction of a second advantage I got from having the longer safety lever.

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Grumpy Old Man With a Gun

Here's what a juror had to say as one of the reasons he voted to convict John McNeil of murdering of Brian Epp:

“You know anybody who carries around a gun with hollow-point bullets? They aren’t just wanting to scare somebody."

That’s evidence of a poor or, at best, mediocre defense attorney. That whole line of independent thought from jurors or attack by a prosecutor would be relatively easily averted.

Never underestimate the stupidity, the ignorance, or the agenda/philosophy (or a combination of all) of a juror. I don't know how this went down in court, but the prosecutor seems to have a made a point of it and it stuck with this particular juror.