Question from new CCW licensee: There are so many places you can't carry. I work at a university, we take the kids to school, go to school events, almost every restaurant serves alcohol, etc. All no-carry places in our state.

Is it on and off and on and off with the firearm all day? How do you approach this?

Paddle holster or pocket carry, also carry purse for women.

Depending, you may need secure vehicle storage. If parking lots are a problem, you may have to leave it at home.

Schools are true PITA unarmed victim zones in many states.

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Science plus Art

Thanks OKFC05. I'm looking at a few pocket holsters. What does PITA stand for?

Pain In The ***.

OWB, be sure to get a small cable-to-the-car-seatframe lockbox (available all over the 'net - Google "Center of Mass safe" - and in several catalogs such as Sportsmans Guide for $35) to secure your gun when you leave it in the car. There are a LOT of gun thefts from vehicles.

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Now go make God proud...

Unless OHIO is a lot different than WA the Laws about having firearms at schools uses the within 1,000 feet Rule. At least, here that includes all school property so if you work at a University and take the kids to school then you might just as well leave you guns at home.

OR get a new job and Home School your kids!!!

Mike, unless Ohio or Washington has a state 1000-foot law, the Federal "Gun Free School Zone" law is inapplicable if you have a CHL, by the express language of the federal statute. Here in Texas, since non-licensed vehicular carry became fully legal in 2007, lots of folks have said that they'd pass on getting a CHL. The federal 1000-foot law is a HUGE reason not to rely on that, and to get a CHL, which makes one exempt under the federal statute.

Interesting that you should bring that up, John. Look at (q)(2)(B)(ii). It appears that the license in question is one to possess, not to carry.


18 U.S.C. § 922 (q) (1) The Congress finds and declares that--
(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;
(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;
(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves--even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by enactment of this subsection.
(2) (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm--
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; [922(q)(2)(B)(ii)] [NB -license to possess, not to carry]
(iii) that is--
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
(3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm--
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or
(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.
(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

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Now go make God proud...

WA does have the 1,000 foot Rule and they do enforce it. Whenever they can catch someone; which ain't often!!!

Anyone pat you down or run you through a metal detector? No? Then keep your mouth shut and do what you decide is best for you.

When I have to disarm a lot, I carry my 2" Model 36 in a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster. I just put holster and all in the glove box and lock it. I always try to put the gun in the glove box before I depart for my destination. That way nobody ever sees me leave a gun unattended. Ohio's an open carry state, so it doesn't matter if anybody sees the gun while I'm disarming or rearming.

I must agree with GatorFarmer. Strange as all of the mass shootings happen where guns are forbidden to everyone but criminals. Another way to put it, is worry about what to say after you have defended your loved ones.

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Shoot the CPU, not the monitor

BATFE interprets it to mean any permit, basically, or at least they did. I spoke at a firearms law seminar in Dallas a couple of years ago. One of the attendees was a BATF lawyer from the Dallas office, who, interestingly enough, has a CHL and seemed to like concealed handgun statutes in principle. I spoke with him at some length about this provision. He viewed it as black and white, despite the "possess" language; i.e., either you have a carry permit and you are exempt, or you don't, and you by god better have the gun unloaded and in a locked compartment, or you are a Violator. Now, given the history about which we know, other offices of BATFE might interpret differently, but this fellow told me it was nationwide policy, at least at that time. If you look at some of the rest of the language, it is a little broader than just "license to possess," and I think that is why they interpret it generously. Besides, the phrase "possessing the firearm" refers to possession at the time one is within the magical 1000 foot zone, the way I read the statute.

If a person is willing to keep removing the gun they believe is essential to protecting their life and that of their family, it would appear that they're not really all that committed to the notion of self defense.


IMHO, a right to carry (whether licensed or not) isn't much of a right if you let anyone who feels like it take it away by posting a sign.


If you accept the terms of a carry license and it has exclusionary provisions, then you're bound by those exclusions. It just sort of defeats the purpose of carry for self defense.


What would be the point of carrying a self defense weapon, only to have your child kidnapped in front of you outside his school, while your gun sat locked in the trunk?
.

my question is always... "Do they have metal detectors?" It's that simple. That's the only way anyone should know about what you have.

IMHO, the only time anyone would know, is if I actually used it. And, if that were the case, I would be thankful to be alive regardless of the laws. Just google "Suzanna Hupp", and she will explain it to ya.

While I do not encourage anyone to break the law, I am in agreement with Pinger and GatorFarmer.

No one should know if you are carrying. That is the purpose of "concealed." How is anyone to know if you are armed at church, the corner steak house or the softball game if you are carrying "concealed?"

Keep it to yourself and decide what's best for you...

+1 and I'll add "Be sure to know the law"

While a sympathize with another posters comments about taking a concealed carry piece on and off, each of us must weigh the choice between consequences of being outted vs consequences of not being armed and decide what is right for us. It's not a simple matter of commitment. In an ideal world, no one would ever realize we were carrying. Then again, in an ideal world, there would be no bad guys and we would never need to carry. By definition, in choosing to carry a weapon for defense, we plan for the unusual.

The ol' "take the law in your own hands","do as you please...". Why not let my brother CC, he's not licensed? "Concealed means concealed". Gee, I'll CC at the bar, I'm concealed, who's to know!
A privilege, not a right, gone haywire....

One of the first places I encountered with my permit was a movie theater with a "no firearms" sign. Being new to CC, I returned my bersa .380 (which I have since traded in for a S&W 642) to the car and locked it in the glove box. I have to say.. while I won't carry on school property or in a federal building, the next time I go to the movies, I will most likely keep my Smith on me.

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- The Federalist #46 -

Actually, it IS a right. Unfortunately, we've allowed state legislatures, the US Congress and many courts to convince many of us otherwise. The Second Amendment is about as clear a statement of recognition of a right as you'll find anywhere. It takes some twisting to make it otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anyone becoming a test case, and most state CHL statutes specify outright that it is a "privilege," so you won't beat the ride, and may not beat the rap, either.

Last year my wife and I took in a movie on a Saturday night. When the show was over, we walked out the door to the parking lot. Well, we walked right into a gang fight, guys and girls throwing punches. We hugged the wall to stay out of the fight and as we made our way to the car, my wife asked if I was carrying, something she hadn't asked in 25 years. I showed her my 1911 and she just smiled. One of us is now always packin'.

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Creede Kid

I have a soft top Jeep and while I don't go into non-carry areas often, I do have to enter court houses, post offices, airports, and similar gov't facilities on occassion - some that do have metal detectors and/or very strict penalties if discovered.

I just ordered a secure-it car safe as an added layer of protection if I have no choice but to leave my sidearm in the vehicle. The Jeep does have a locking console and locking glove box, but the locks are far from adequate for securing a friearm. I could upgrade from the OE at a substantial cost for a Tuffy or similar, but decided on the secure-it car safe. A secure-it cabled to the vehicle and perhaps also inside a locked compartment/console will give me better peace of mind.

Generally, I hate the idea of entering non-carry places and leaving a firearm in a vehicle, but sometimes have no other choice. Given I have a soft top 4x4, I went ahead with the purchase of a secure-it safe.

Pinger and GatorFarmer explained well enough that anyone smart enough to carry a gun should be able to figure it out.

BTW, in the otherwise somewhat antigun PDR of MA, there are very few restrictions on where someone with a permit may carry a gun. So it not only makes sense, it's even legal.

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Formerly Model520Fan

Like others I only take mine off for metal detectors, but the only place I ever go that is no carry is the courthouse and they have metal detectors.

Here in a still free state, the only place forbidden by law is a court building and the post office. Open carry is allowed but not my thing.

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All Rights Reserved

Exactly!! If you don't ever need to use it then no one will ever know. If you do ever need to use it then who cares who knows it then. It's easier to get out of jail than out of a casket.

Smitty

If you had killed the Virginia Tech shooter, no one would realize you were a hero. You would be prosecuted and witnesses would appear at you trial about how you murdered this poor troubled young man who was just having difficulty adjusting to this evil anglo society that you represent. Ace

Guns are a RIGHT in public places, but on private property they are at the pleasure of the owner.
However, if you do not wish to be a SCOTUS test case, you must heed the signs on public buildings. I find it interesting that they leave the signs up for our state gun shows.

This is a very interesting discussion. I recently asked a person who knows the State laws better than most, and who deals with the lawmakers here on a regular basis.

His contention was that the "gun free school zone" meant one one would face penalties for illegaly possessing a firearm on school property. A person licensed to carry was exempt. He stated that the law was in place to make the penalties harsher for gun crimes committed on school property. This would include carrying a firearm without a permit.

WG840

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Freedom above all else.

Since I initially posed the question I have learned in Ohio I am probably OK with the gun in the car when dropping the kids off and I am probably OK at work at a university if I keep the gun locked in the car in the parking lot. That's based on an Oklahoma ruling; don't know how that would fly in Ohio.

None of this solves the essential problem of the "gun-free" zone dilemna and thanks for the candid opinions on that issue. But the discussion has helped me think about the finer points of the problem.

Think Small...

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C & L

There are no laws preveinting me from carrying in bars or schools. If it's so bad for some of you, how come I haven't turned into a vampire or flesh eater?

Emory

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Hard To Kill

Or simply burst into flames?

Where do you live? Every state I know of has very strict laws in this regard. What am I missing here?

In that scenario, there is no difference if you have a CHL or not! So, why not let anyone CC?
All the scum-bags that carry w/o a CHL have the same outlook: I'm concealed who's to know? I'll pull it out when I need it at the nearest "Stop & Rob convenience store...
Bottom line: Be Legal...

That's exactly what three states have decided to do, provided the carrier is a law abiding adult.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

I have a natural right, that is affirmed in the second amenment, to protect myself and my family. The state I live in (which sucks) specifically licenses me to carry my weapon concealed.

They list only a small handful of places where I can't carry concealed. I accept those limitations as a condition of the license to carry concealed, and avoid them.

What I DON'T ACCEPT is tha ability of anyone who can carry a mortgage to subordinate my self protection rights to their property rights.

If any property holder with a different political ideology can take away your rights at their whim, then you are wasting your time claiming that you carry for self defense.
.

Double check you state laws. I am in CA, most CCW's think that they cannot go onto school campuses or government buildings, etc. But read your laws... a good instructor would have done your homework for you. In CA, CCW's circumvent laws pertaining to firearms on or around schools and most government buildings. Those laws are in place for criminal retards. The CCW (at least in CA) is so difficult to get for that reason. Only a truely responsible person with good cause can get one and the restrictions are lifted when you get it.

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Those of you who hammer your guns into plows will plow for those who do not.

Can't say what Crofoot meant, but laws often don't prevent the things they outlaw. They just make them illegal.

BTW, MA doesn't outlaw carrying in a bar, although it certainly outlaws carrying under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs. It also doesn't completely outlaw carrying in schools (legal with written permission from the officer or board in charge). I suspect that there are some other states with similar laws.

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Formerly Model520Fan

Ah California, so many retards, so few worthy of self defense. Isn't that what your legislature has said

Ohio CCW is cumbersome. I'm originally from Ohio and spend some time there occasionnally. Virginia concealed carry is legal in your vehicle when dropping off or picking up your kids but not out side of the vehicle. Open carry is legal for on premises alcohol, concealed is not.

Model520fan, the poster from Oregon is correct, they can legally carry in bars and schools.

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A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work.

My feelings exactly.

No such laws here in NH.

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All Rights Reserved

Oregon has no restrictions on CC in bars, or schools.

I guess the upside of a state like Cali is CCW's are less restrictive since they don't hand out a lot....

On the California CCW application it says:

While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not,when carrying a concealed weapon:
1.) Consume any alcoholic beverage.
2.) Be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.
3.) Be under the influence of any medication or drug, whether prescribed or not.
4.) Refuse to show the license or surrender the concealed weapon to any peace officer upon demand.
5.) Impede any peace officer in the performance of his/her duties.
6.) Present himself/herself as a peace officer to any person unless he/she is, in fact, a peace officer as defined by California law.
7.) Carry a concealed weapon at times or circumstances other than those specified in the permit.

I'm not sure if these apply to reserve peace officers as I have not seen any of these regs in the dept. paperwork I filled out...

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Those licensed to carry a concealed weapon [in WA] may carry a firearm while picking up or dropping off a student on school premises. Most schools are within 1000ft of the road, and there is also specific language about driving past a school (if you have a permit, it is exempt).

Be polite. Don't get stupid. Treat the cocktail waitress like she is your sister in-law. Keep your back against a wall as far away from the register, and as close to an exit as possible. Carry whatever floats your boat as long as it truly is "concealed". And none of the worst case scenario's will ever happen. Fail to do any of the above, and nothing will prevent the worst case scenario from unfolding. A Cop's always right. So your job is to make sure he or she doesn't have to do their job. If I'm scared enough of a place to not want to be drinking there W/O packing, I better find a better zip code to drink in? Like at home!

Yep. For any LEO looking, this statement is for you, "Although I will never carry in a no carry zone, ever."

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Don't look, reload and shoot!

Iam also lucky in CA to live in a county that has a women Sherriff that is actually pro gun and gives permits to those that pass the application process.

Since its so hard to get permits here(CA in general) you just dont see No Firearms signs, around here at least. Iam with the metal detector crowd, I never leave my gun in my car, ever. If a business around here had a posted sign Iam not going to frequent that business, they will not get another penny from me.CA is not as bad as everyone thinks, especially in the conservative areas of the state, where I live. Lots of gun people here, lots of great outdoor activites and beautiful country to enjoy still.

I cant believe some of the **** a few members are spewing here, why do you even own guns if your so liberal in your views about carrying them....