As the title infers, I’m an old guy…how I got this old this quick is puzzling! As a young police officer I spent the majority of my time toting an S&W revolver on my Sam Brown belt. That means that I, and guys like me, have considerable trigger time with a DA revolver. Based on that experience, I have reached a conclusion about conversions to semi autos by long in the tooth revolver shooters. I reserve the right to be absolutely wrong…I certainly have been before.

My convoluted logic has determined that moving from the revolver to the DA/SA semi auto makes sense. The former revolver shooter has only one thing to learn, the decocker. We are very familiar with the long pull of the double action shot which is much the same whether performed with a round gun or a bottom feeder. The same with the single action shot, single action is single action. So the DA/SA is very similar to shooting a revolver with regard to the actual firing. It is just the shoving it back in the sheath on the belt that is different. Decock dummy should be easy, even for an old guy to learn.

Many of us would conclude that that long DA pull, in either a revolver or DA/SA pistol, is a deterrent to an AD. Plus some of use just like having a hammer. We also might like the fact that we can reload more rapidly with the DA/SA semi auto that our old 6 shooters, while maintaining the same fire control mechanism.

Certainly there are many of us senior shooters who can be retrained to the “modern” striker fired handguns. But some us are just comfortable with the DA/SA action. Kind of like what legendary football coach Darrel Royal was fond of saying, “dance with what brung ya”. So does it make sense for old time revolver shooters to transition to the DA/SA semi auto…some of us think so. No disrespect meant to the fabled Col. Cooper, but I respectfully disagree with his conclusion that the action he termed as “crunch, tick” is not a “solution looking for a problem”, but rather a viable, easy transition for a confirmed old revolver shooter.

Which DA/SA is best…the one you like and shoot the best. There is probably not ten cents worth of difference between any of the quality DA/SA semi autos on the market. Kind of like arguing which is better, Ford or Chevrolet…it is a personal decision. So, pick a Sig, Beretta, CZ or Gen 3 S&W, or whatever fits your mitts, and enjoy shooting almost like you did back in the day.

As always, I reserve the right to be wrong and am more often than not. But hopefully I am at least partially correct this time around. After all, it was a difficult transition from call boxes to radios and hand cranked sirens to electronic squealers! Blessings to all.

Personally I have always thought the Glock (and similar) was an easier transition for revolver shooters. My agency (Cal Dept of Corrections) was thinking seriously about the question when I retired 17 years ago. They just finished the conversion last year. They did end up going with Glock. The transition class was only two days, very inadequate IMHO. Then again a hand gun is not a primary weapon for prison cops, we used long guns primarily.

I've always liked the 1911-gun and the High Power. Tried a CZ 75 BD a few years back and found it to be a worthy successor to the High Power.

I will not take the Glock and others of that ilk seriously for any handgun chore. The only Glock here is a 17 and I only acquired it in order to be able to better hate on Glock ... and I do.

My opinion: You will be well served by a 3rd Gen S&W (you didn't mention your preferred caliber).
I prefer metal over plastic. S&W 3900, 4000, 5900, or 4500 series contain different configurations and sizes.
Let us know what you end up with.

wyo-man

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Live free or die

I carried a Ruger Service Six as we were responsible for buying our own revolvers and had to buy one on the approved list. The Service Six was a lot more affordable than a Model 19 or even a Colt Trooper.

But I was a 1911 guy. Given a choice I carried a 1911 and later a Hi Power.

But…fast forward 35 years and I’ve advanced to various CZ 75 pistols, first in the “B” variants, and then in the decocker equipped “D” variants when I admitted defeat and recognized they just made a lot more sense in that platform.

And that switch to the D variants of the CZ 75 also made it reasonable to also carry a 2 1/2” Model 66 or a 3” Model 686+ when the urge strikes me. The two platforms essentially operate the same way when things go pear shaped and as much as I like modern 9mm hollow points, I like .357 Mag better.




I’m in total agreement with the OP that conversion from a DA revolver to a DA/SA or DAO pistol actually made far more sense than conversion to a striker fired Glock.

Glock sold a bunch of Glocks to law enforcement agencies on the premise that with all the safety mechanisms tied to the trigger, it required the absolute minimum training to convert a revolver carrying officer to a Glock. The fact that the premise was false didn’t seem to matter, and with almost 40 years of repetition it’s taken as fact, even though it’s still false.

The real world results of that conversion were not stellar - and still aren’t - with officers having negligent discharges on a distressingly frequent basis due to the much shorter and lighter trigger pull relative to a DA revolver.

Many departments nd up ordering them with 12 pound trigger pulls to try to reduce the frequency of the NDs with limited results.

The other argument for striker fired pistols is that officers only have to learn one trigger pull. A DAO pistol however achieves the same goal. But quite frankly if the need to manage a DA and an SA trigger pull is an issue for officers in a department the training standards are already hopelessly low.

Began my firearms experience without any outside influence, just an introduction course at a local range which had me trying every type of handgun. Started with carrying wheelguns, then single action, striker, then DA/SA which was "just right" for me. Took a few years of learning my own preferences to work out which was best for me.


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Slava Ukraini!

Like others I carried a revolver for the first 20 years of my 30 years on the street. We converted to Glocks, and my former agency still issues the G19 but I’m not aware of problems w/a lot of negligent discharges. One cop did shoot vending machine in HQ but I suspect there might be more to that story than I know.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

The vending machine probably had it coming. They are thieves and villains. I shot a computer once. On purpose. It pissed me off. It was fun. I only wounded it.

I'll bet it was one of those vending machines with the corkscrew mechanism that turned to (occasionally) drop your purchase.

I have had a love for the model 10 for many decades. Having been issued a
model 10-5 in 1965. I even fanangled a model 15 while in Vietnam. Then, back home again, the model 10-5 was back in my holster as I walked the streets and alleys on my beat. I still have that model 10-5.

But times changed, let's say I matured, like I got old. And the semi-auto just made sense. The transition wasn't that difficult for me, but my pride took a beating. I still carry and shoot the wheel guns. However, the bottom feeders also get their share of range time and self-defense duties. But I'll never forget my first love the model 10-5 .
And, you know, it has never told anyone how scared I was walking down those dark alleys.

There was a Rangemaster I knew some years back. Retired cop and long time wheelgunner. For most of the many years I knew him, he carried a S&W Model 66. He swore by it and was an excellent shot with it.
One day I showed up at the range and he was wearing a semi-auto! I said "What's up with this!" He smiled and said "DAO, its a 16 shot revolver."

Whit, I can relate to your observations. I started in 73 as a foot patrolman in a large metro department armed with a K frame smith that was DAO and 158 gr RN 38’s.
I carried a revolver for 15 years, transitioned to a 2nd gen 9mm Smith in DA/SA. By then I had been a F/A instructor for some time, and was involved in training several thousand officers in the new duty weapon. The biggest issue was not the decock, but getting the troops to push the decock lever back up before holstering.
About five years after the transition to DA/SA auto loaders, the brass hats decided to go to DAO pistols, IMO they should have done that initially. Our SWAT & special detail troops kept the DA/SA’s.
I retired in 2008, and made a lot of transitions in practically every aspect of our profession in those 35 years, so I totally understand the call box to radios, computers & cell phones.
I still instruct part time at our state LE academy, and smile to myself whenever I step out on the firing range or watch a Defensive tactics class.
I agree with you, find a pistol that works for you, train with it and be competent with it.
Regards.

I started with DA/SA guns, 3rd Gen Smiths and Beretta 92s, then transitioned to Glocks and finally to 1911s.

Most of my early instructors had made the move from revolvers to Beretta. Couple of issues cropped up.

1. As stated before it's not some much using the decocker to decock, it's remembering to put it back up. We had very very strict guidelines about decocking is a TWO part motion, down and up. the decocker is NOT your friend.

2. Trigger control. The vast majority of revolver shooters take their finger completely off the trigger to let it snap forward. Doing that with a DA/SA auto after the first shot will result in the "running finger" trigger slap. After the first shot you have to learn to finesse the trigger because its a short light SA pull. Jeff Cooper called it a two speed trigger.

I started in a large metro police department in 1968, walking a beat w/a Colt OP, a baton & cuffs. We called in from a call box, no portable radios, every hour. Walking those alleys on midnights during the dead of winter was tough. Every now & then the sergeant would come around and let me warm up in his cruiser.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I went through this about 40 years ago. I was very comfortable switching from a DA S&W revolver to a S&W M-39. I still have it, but worked my way to a Sig-Sauer P229 with a few more rounds of ammo.

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6/23/2022

As a LE firearms instructor who has helped train many dozens of officers/deputies in the transition from revolver to semi-auto, it is my experience that it is a much more seamless transition from revolver to Glock than it is revolver to DA/SA.

In my personal experience, I started out as a rookie LEO carrying a S&W 586 and loved it. I always had high range scores, averaging above 95%. When we transitioned to semi-autos in around 1998 we first went with the Beretta 92, some 2nd & 3rd generation S&W's, and the H&K USP. All were fine firearms, but overall range scores plummeted with DA/SA semi's. We determined the problem was because of the double action trigger pull 1st round, then the transition to the long take up single action trigger pull with the 2nd round. After two rounds if you went to low ready and dropped the hammer, you had to start over again with the double action pull. This inconsistency in trigger pull causes problems for a lot of people, especially those who don't shoot a lot.

Like some, I thought the Glock platform was ugly, plastic, square, and lacked ergonomics, but the DA/SA guns weren't getting the job done so I was opened minded enough to get with a Glock instructor and gave it a try. Best decision I ever made. The Glock naysayers can complain all they want but they are reliable and have the SAME trigger pull every time, same as a double action revolver, unlike the DA/SA semi auto. My range scores for many years with a Glock average higher than they ever did with my beloved 586.

In my opinion, DA only semi autos are an improvement over DA/SA semi autos, but are more of nod to traditionalist to give them an option over striker fired semi-autos. My observation has been that there are a few folks who transition well from revolver to DA/SA, but a higher percentage struggle with it.

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- Change it back -

The decock lever snapping back up on its own is one of the things that sold me on the CZ 75 “D” pistols.

—-

For commercial purposes liability issues have made the problem with decocker/safety levers worse.

As far as I can tell Walther pioneered the concept (along with DA/SA operation) on its PP pistol in 1929. However fast forward to our litigious environment here in the US and the manual doesn’t say snap it back up, but rather it advises the shooter to leave it down in the “decock/safe” position where it was clearly never designed to be left when carrying the pistol.

Common sense just isn’t very common anymore.

My concern about the DA/SA pistols is an officer could re-holster following a shooting & forget to de-cock the weapon. Our department went w/the Glock and never regretted that decision.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

true, after a shooting the adrenaline rush doesn't subside immediately. same goes for a 1911.....forgetting to engage the safety. about the only platform that is "safe" is DAO, whether it's a revolver or semi auto. wish Smith would bring out a larger sized Body Guard with 10+1 and a good trigger. Sig produced the P250 subcompact, a DAO, which has a very nice trigger. it's just a little too chubby.

A problem with SA, DA/SA, or a striker fired pistol with all the safeties on the trigger, like a Glock is the potential for an officer after a shoot trying to holster his pistol with his finger still inside the trigger guard. With the heavier and longer trigger pull of a DA trigger, that’s much less likely to end in a negligent discharge.

But, it’s also a training issue. If you train someone to place their thumb over the front of the hammer with an SA pistol, after putting the safety lever to the safe position, it’s both redundant and builds muscle memory for an entirely different grip on the pistol when reholstering.

Similarly, if you train someone to place his or her thumb over the back of the hammer when reholstering a DA revolver, or a DAO pistol or D/A pistol after decocking it, it’s again both a very different grip, and they’ll feel the hammer already back and have a second chance to catch the failure to decock.

Of course the counter argument is that it takes less training to teach someone to use a Glock. And that’s correct if you are willing to either limit it to duty holsters that are hung far enough off the hip to hopefully miss the leg when a negligent discharge occurs, or are willing to accept a certain percentage of Glock legged officers.

Departments that are not experiencing negligent discharges with Glocks are in fact doing more training - on par with the training required for a DA/SA pistol.

That negates the reduced training argument that Glock marketed so many Glocks with.

Good topic. For me having sons made it easier for me to transition. Both my boys took to Glocks and other automatics quickly. I like the CZ and Glock and S&W 2.0 now. Mentally though it was a difficult change until my boys started bringing them on range trips and I could see the utility first hand.

That's what I'm waiting for, too. A Bodyguard Plus. S&W has to be losing Bodyguard sales to the LCP Max. I can even live with the existing trigger. I've gotten used to it.

As usual, nice comments So-Dak ...

With the striker guns there is significantly a less margin error vs a double action revolver and even a 1911 to a point. The guns have gone off in the holster.
In one case, I can assume clothing ... (T-shirt must have have been wadded around the trigger.)...the guy was just walking around and Pow!!! Previously he was sitting, he got up and was walking when the gun went off in his appendix holster. It's on Youtube.

I know firsthand of two cases where toddlers have found automatics. One found a small .32 in the bedroom drawer.
Another one found his dad's Glock under the driver's seat of his pickup truck. The dad was detailing his truck and was...."right there".
One was a miracle, the other.... unspeakable in the horror.

These little ones pull the trigger with both thumbs with the muzzle facing their face or body.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating complacency with a revolver as far as gun handling and discipline.
The fact remains though, if those two toddlers had found revolvers, what happened would have been much less likely. At least they would have had more of a chance...Maybe some more time.

My main point is simply this...These automatics are less forgiving.
Train, train, train....
And always keep up with the dang thing. Always, there is little to no margin of error.

I made the transition from DA revolver to DA/SA auto when I made detective in 1984. I would have much preferred DAO, but none was available. It was easy enough, but I was younger then and shooting several hundred rounds per month.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

I carried a revolver on the job for over 33 years. I bought over a dozen different TDA and DAO pistols to transition from revolver to pistol.

After considerable range and training time, I settled on a DAO option for my primary EDC - a Model 3953. I also like my DAO Model 4053 when I rarely want to up my carry caliber.

My reasoning was the DAO pistol's manual of arms was like my revolvers and the TDA might create a personal issue at crunch time.

Going from a really nice trigger on a good revolver to the pretty trash trigger on your average Glock would not be a thing I'd wish on a shooting enthusiast.

There are some good DA/SA options out there, go to a store or show and give them a try for trigger and how they point.

I found the CZ-75 to be comfortable, but the basic versions have pretty trash triggers as well. The better grades can have outstanding triggers.
The various SIGs tend to have long resets but pretty good triggers, I don't happen to like how they fit my hands.
1911 is a solid performer and has that classic gun vibe, but it does mean bucking decades of training to get used to something with a safety.

I carried a S&W Model 27, a 1911, and various Glocks over my career. I did not find transitioning between them difficult at all. Just train; it doesn't matter how old you are. I also had a Remington 870, an MP-5/10, and an M-4. They never confused me either. Just make sure you train with what you are going to use.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

Been carrying since Ohio passed the Conceal Carry law. Always carried a revolver either a 642 or had a 3” full lug .327 K frame built by Andy Horvath. Now I carry a Sig 365 in 9mm, twice the capacity of a k and not as bulky. Larry

never had a problem transitioning from a Roy Rogers cap pistol to a Dick Tracy cap gun. loved the smell of cap powder in the morning.

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Personally , I like the DAK trigger system. No De-cocker to learn, Basically a flat , fast re-loading , higher capacity , hammer fired revolver.

Also , unlike a revolver, it can be placed with a full mag and an empty chamber so you can't just pull the trigger {Think kids and sock drawer}} It would take some hand strength to rack the slide.{the P 220 in 45 more so than the 9 mm } Safer storage of a mostly ready firearm. {safer than a revolver, unless both are completely unloaded} Smooth revolver like trigger. Just shoot it like you do a revolver.

After carrying a M60 for 40+ years I transitioned to a Sig P365. It has a pretty descent trigger - similar to a DA revolver but the pull weight is about 5.5 lbs. and is as simple as it gets to operate. No manual safety, no SA/DA so it is as close to a Revolver as one can get.

It is essential for one to become extremely familiar with any new EDC! When holstering the P365 (or ANY Glock or modern DA pistol with a round in the chamber) one must remember that the trigger pull is less than half of what the old DA Revolver was and caution must be exercised while doing so. These new guns won't go off by themselves - but we must remember trigger pulls are different!

I personally don't like the SA/DA type pistols for EDC. As we age we have enough to deal with, practice with and learn that we don't need a more complicated firearm. I like the K.I.S.S. concept and practice often. The only thing I want to have to remember in a time of need (hope it never happens - but we must be prepared) is to simply aim and pull the trigger. Don't want to worry or think about DA/SA, safeties, lasers, optics, etc. Deploy and pull - simple.