Everything in terms of stopping the
perp turned out fine and the young
man is rightly being hailed as a
hero.

But just keep in mind, his shooting
could also have just extended the
tragedy had he hit a bystander.
And yes, that has to be kept in
mind in these sort of situations.

The next good guy with a gun
is just as likely not to have the
skills or presence of mind that
this young man has.

Another aspect is that in any
active shooting situation,
the good guy with a gun can
also become a target from
security personnel such as
police. Any number of
off-duty officers have been
shot by their fellow officers
in such situations.

__________________
Ubi Est Mea

I'm seeing some of the same reasoning from the anti gun crowd. ↑

It's an acknowledgement that
gray areas in any shooting exist
with the outcomes being very good
or more tragic.

__________________
Ubi Est Mea

I heard the guy braced himself against a column and fired 10 shots at the bad guy from 40yds .
Not sure how many hits but obviously enough
Good shooting under pressure

__________________
the rules? there are no rules

I think the young man was
a highly skilled gun owner
with probably a great interest
in being proficient

But all concealed carry people
young and old are not necessarily
as dedicated as he is nor as
interested and dedicated as members
of forums such as this one.

And yet each and everyone is a
potential hero or a potential walking
disaster---enter the vast gray areas
of gun use, good guy vs. bad guy.

Like it or not, it's something to be
considered even though many
anti-gunners preach it.

My comments are within the
discussion of the mall shooting,
not one-on-one confrontations
where a concealed carry person
is defending only him/herself.
More power to the concealed
carry person in that situation.

__________________
Ubi Est Mea

Which brings up Col. Cooper's line that "Owning a gun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." You're responsible for where the bullets end up, not just what you're aiming at. The young man in this incident clearly took his responsibility very seriously to be able to pull that off successfully.

I agree with comments here that it might have been better for him to remain anonymous. If it were me I don't think I'd want my photo splashed all over the media.

Well now that someone released his picture,

the local LE agency should at least make him a part time deputy or something, just to put a "Angel" over him, if any BG thinks they need to harm him, and get a maximum sentence.

Plus... he could have missed the shooter and struck a gas line in the food court (all those food places are bound to use natural gas)... then the gas leak would have filled the mall with gas suffocating dozens, if not hundreds.... and the gas could have ignited and blown up THE ENTIRE MALL killing hundreds and causing tens of millions of dollars in property damage...


Don't forget his firing a gun indoors could have caused hearing damage to innocent bystanders.... plus the environmental contamination without the appropriate mitigation systems has to be considered...

Very true.

The anger, disappointment and hate geared toward the man that stood and ended the threat is palpable.

They just can't accept that someone with a gun ended a mass shooters spree before it caused dozens more casualties.

The idiocy and dishonesty of their concerns and calling him a vigilante demonstrates how extreme they are and how saving lives is not their intent, desire, or goal.

The spout off vile idiocy like "...this single instance of vigilante violence..." and "a random 22-year-old opening fire in an already chaotic scene, and only after multiple other people were dead or injured." and "Is this truly a best-case scenario?"

They really do hate that someone actually saved countless lives.

Do you advocate that for the 1st Amendment too? Can I go onto your property and/or place of business and give a speech on the dangers of guns?

A lot of what if's and could of happened here. But one certainty was the shooters intent to kill as many people as possible. I would still take the odds and go with the good guy in the room with a gun.

And they would likely be saying the same thing if they or one of their relatives had been hit in the mall in Greenwood.

I agree with Uncle Ed's cautionary comments above; much COULD have gone wrong (even if it had been the police who had shot the assailant). But in this case, it didn't, and lives were saved.

And what the h-e-double-hockey-sticks is "a random 22 year-old"? What a load of unctious twaddle!

Those "cautionary comments", intentionally or not, sound exactly like what the anti 2nd crowd espouses.

Yes, a million and one things could have gone wrong. They didn't.

When the "what if's" all find fault, error, negative outcomes, it comes across negative. As far as a shooting goes, this was what I would call textbook perfect. Break it down and there were no (based on what we know so far) faults or errors.

He recognized the threat immediately.

He moved the person he was with to safety.

He drew and took up a supported firing stance.

He successfully engaged and neutralized the threat.

His actions after he neutralized the threat were such that he was not erroneously identified as a threat by responding officers.

None of that happened. He killed the shooter.
Coulda woulda shoulda.
Im glad he was there, and not you.

@RCL09: Fair enough, but I took Uncle Ed's comments at face value, He's been a regular here for a while and seems to post sensible stuff. I'm quite sure he wasn't sympathizing with the "anti" crowd!

100% agreed on your other points. The young man acted in a responsible and professional manner and shut down the carnage quickly, efficiently and safely. Good enough for me. I wonder how he's doing in the aftermath. I imagine that would be a life-changing experience.

I would hope a poster would not side with the anti 2nd crowd. The tenor of the posts, IMO, is such that it comes across as disparaging/questioning the actions of the person who ended the killers spree. We have enough of that in the corrupt, lying, and unethical MSM.

Not being a Monday Morning Quarterback I commend the legally armed citizen that did what needed to be done and I would have done the same.

Been there,done that....how about you?

Now I need to rethink my EDC again.

__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Strictly speaking for myself, that is why my EDC is a Sig p365 and an extra magazine.

I have to wonder if the armed citizen would have been as effective with a 5 shot J frame.

I won't take that personally as I love my J frame and shoot it quite often. I do not know how well I'd shoot under duress but I've shot and killed moving groundhogs with my J frame at +10 yards. I'm not an expert shot by no means but practice improves my shooting that little J frame.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Why is that?

__________________
Release the Kraken

The average shoot out takes place within 7 yards so this event at 40 yards is an exception to the statistical average.

The advantage was surely on the side of the one with the long gun and not the one with the handgun.

I would assume(bad to assume) the rifle shooter was not expecting to be shot at and was caught off guard.Once hit he attempted to retreat but the hit proved deadly.

Witnessing first hand people shot many times I saw that they don't go right down with the exception of good head shots.

__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

It happened about an hour's drive away from me.

If I understand it correctly, the "No Guns" signs do not carry the force of law in MOST states. In some, they do. (Not in Indiana.) If you CCW in the mall, they can ask you to leave, and if you don't, it's trespass.

Ok fine, if that's what the owners want. BUT...they have to take FULL responsibility for my safety and the safety of my family if they require me to not CCW and then a shooting occurs. Talk about lawsuits!

Kudos to this young man. I'm now half expecting the shooter's family to file a wrongful death lawsuit: "You had no right to shoot my husband/son/father (whatever) because you're not a cop! It was none of your business!" Or some such stupid reasoning. And some lawyer somewhere will probably take the case...

Yeah, this has me reconsidering, to some extent, too. I am much more comfortable carrying a revolver than a semi, but this incident does make one think.

By the way, NYT published an accurate and prominent story on this incident today.

We all carry what we know, are comfortable with and trust. If that is a J frame for you I have no issue. Personally, because of cases like the one under discussion, I go with the P365.

I understand and recognize that, but my luck is such that, God help me, I'm gonna be the one that is not the the "average" incident.

As to the cowards that perpetrate these crimes, most fall apart when shot, or shot at. Heck, one round close by may have made this creep flee to the restroom.

I wouldn't feel too bad with a 13 or 65 with a 3" barrel... I love the J frames, and my Colt Detective Special is, well, special.

Double like on that one!

__________________
Sure you did

That young man did what he had to do, is the definition of a hero & saved untold lives, but I feel bad for him b/c the anti gun media will be all over him. I’ve already read that since the mall is a gun free zone (what about the bad guy?) there’s a push for him to be banned from the property. I had my name in the paper twice during my career & while it was a long time ago it was not a pleasant experience.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I’m quite sure he won’t get job offers from Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, WAPO, NY Times, MSNBC, etc.

__________________
Sure you did

I can see the left's headline for someone like Audie Murphy...

VIGILANTE AMERICAN STORMTROOPER ATTACKS GERMANS - GOES ON VIGILANTE RAMPAGE

Or Alvin York...

BACKWOODS CONSERVATIVE VIGILANTE KILLS GERMANS WHILE TRAVELING IN FRANCE

They should be ashamed trying to use a tragedy like this to further their agenda.

You forgot to state that he also contaminated the area with lead.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Such a ban would be an honor.

__________________
What, me worry?

Doubt there will be any complaints from the poor souls in the food court that day who were not killed/injured.

I seriously doubt this will happen, but when it comes
to predicting people not doing weird things, I’m usually wrong. This fellow doesn’t need anonymity. I’d bet a small sum of money he’ll be just fine, and most Hoosiers are not going to pay much attention to negative spin from the MSM, anyway.

Missed that the first go round. Hilarious.

__________________
Sure you did

But they always use a crisis or tragedy to push their agenda, nothing new to them

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Brave young man who saved lives. We need more like him, as the only thing that will stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun. And they are much rarer than one would think:

"There were at least 434 active shooter attacks in the US from 2000 to 2021, according to ALERRT data. Active shooter attacks were defined as those in which one or more shooters killed or attempted to kill multiple unrelated people in a populated place.
Of those 434 active shooter cases, an armed bystander shot the attacker in 22 of the incidents. In 10 of those, the "good guy" was a security guard or an off-duty police officer, ALERRT data showed."

Congrats to Mr. Dicken. Good job son. Anyone who posted negative about this is on the wrong side of good and evil.

They should be ashamed but I’ll bet they’re not!

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

__________________
Music/Sports/Beer fan

Beautiful!!!

15 seconds?!?!

Mr. Dicken, Thank you! You are truly a hero.

I can see it now, the dimwitted, dishonest left....

He reacted too fast...

he couldn't have known if the murderer was an innocent person or not...

Is that what we want? People knee jerking and killing people in less that 15 seconds?

When that fails they'll say he took too long...


he didn't stop the killer in time to save lives...

Anyone who thinks Elisjsha Dicken did the wrong thing by stopping Jonathan Sapirman should have their head examined.

Did they actually read up on the incident? Do they live in a theoretical world??

From the NY Post article:
Elisjsha Dicken killed Indiana mall shooter Jonathan Sapirman

From ABC News:
Police laud actions of man who killed Indiana mall attacker - ABC News

It now seems that this sociopath was engaged within 15 seconds after he opened fire. How long would it have taken for the police to arrive? I typically don’t trust everything I read in the media and am awaiting more information, but I’m thankful the shooter was stopped quickly.

This was obviously a planned attack. Sapirman tried to destroy evidence and blow up the apartment he was being evicted from, had another rifle, a handgun, loaded magazines and an additional 100 rounds of ammunition. God knows how much more damage he would have caused, if it weren’t for the quick actions of Dicken.

__________________
"I also cook."

Usually a P365 with 12.

Even my mouse 380 LCP MAX is an upgraded 12 rounder.

These shootings are a wake up call.

__________________
Sure you did

8 out of the 10 shots he fired at the mall shooter from 40 yards in Indianapolis hit the shooter. That is some phenomenal shooting! And under pressure.

Wow, you actually considered what the perverts think. I would have just flushed those turds down the toilet drain.

According to Newsweek Mr Dicken faced a Sig Sauer M400 armed with a 9mm Glock. To repeat; 7 hits @40 yards in 15 seconds.

The Greenwood PD should recruit him.

__________________
Music/Sports/Beer fan

Know they enemy...