Recall seeing articles on this for revolvers years ago. One article quoted an LEO saying he loaded with "2 slappers and 4 drillers"-2 light recoiling rounds to get on target, distract their attention, then 4 more potent rounds to put them down. Something similar in a semiauto-2 FMJs to get on target, penetrate thick clothing , then JHPs to end the fight-?

Suppose it may work. We use to load shotguns with birdshot up first, then 00 Buck and then slug for defensive use. The thought was the birdshot would not go through to many walls and if that did not stop the threat go to heavier/more potent rounds.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Back in the days when a lot of semi-auto pistols were not reliable with anything except FMJ RN ammo, I knew a couple of cops who used to load HPs in the chamber, and then alternate so that the next round would be a FMJ, then another HP, and so on. Their theory was that no matter what they would get at least two shots off before a malfunction might get them. Imagine that theory in today’s world where people groan about a malfunction in 3,000 rounds - without cleaning their gun!

Made me laugh reading the last. A long time ago I was a Guard Chief at a Marine Barracks. The 1stSgt. and I shot every day. Like a good Marine I throughly cleaned my M1911 to inspection ready after shooting the days round. One day the 1stSgt. want to go to lunch with the local PD's Chief of Police and Chief of their Detectives/Swat Team Commander. I was cleaning my pistol dutifully and he why? Because that is what I was taught, I answered. He said he was on the clean it when it quit working program. So, I tried it and found my M1911 would get gummed up and quit working at about 2500 round of issue hardball.......

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

No.

People used to do a lot of silly or non-practical things with firearms, including how they loaded them.

Rather than speculating about strange ammunition selection and loading rituals, perhaps many people would worry less about such things if they invested more time in skills development, training and practice.

Just my thoughts after having served as a LE firearms instructor for 26 years, and also having helped teach private citizens for many years.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I may be the odd man out on this one, but personally, when faced with a potential life-ending threat, I don't just want to distract their attention, slow them down, or make 'em "think about it." I want to put them down immediately...if not sooner.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

Have seen a lot of folks do a lot of silly things over the years. Various ways of loading weapons is one. You can teach them the right/accepted way to do things, but then they will modify to their needs/or ways of doing things. Just my thoughts after being a firearms instructor of over 40 years (Rifle, pistol, revolver and combat shotgun). Don't teach combat skills to anyone except LE and military, civilians I teach basic marksmanship).

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Guess I should have stated that if using a handgun, stoke it with the most potent rounds you can handle. As you may only get one shot.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

In my original post in this thread, I was going to pose the question of whether someone would wish to compromise in their selection and loading of defensive ammunition, keeping in mind the circumstances might only allow them to get off that one/first shot.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

We all think that in an SD situation we will be channeling Charley Askins and Jim Cirillo, will achieve that one shot/instant stop. I think Reality shows
otherwise.

When I first started in LE out patrol supervisor had us load a #9 shot shell to be the first fired. His reasoning was the #9 shot would take the back window out of the car to allow a clear view inside while doing minimal damage to any non-violent passengers.

There you go again making good sense.

So what happens if you need to "drill" the perp with your first round...

Hopefully they hit their target.........

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I realize that the discussion is about loading magazines for semi auto pistol magazines but on another note, while deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, I loaded my M4 magazines as follows:
5 ball
3 tracer
20 ball
The idea was to always be alerted when down to five rounds in the magazine.

Works for some. Never used tracer in a M16, felt it let the other folks where you were.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

That's Jan Stevenson from his monthly column in the July, 1974 issue of Guns magazine. You've misremembered the rationale stated by that officer. His "slappers" were hot-loaded reversed hollow-base wadcutters intended for maximum stopping power and minimal penetration. The "drillers" were AP for anti-vehicular penetration.

Now, others cited in the article did load blanks, tear gas and shot cartridges for the first shot or two with various rationales proposed.

Stevenson reported that a common mix was lower recoil .38 for the first 2-3 with the next 3-4.357. He himself carried a model 58 with the first 3 being the lead police load and the next 3 magnum.

My friends in snake country say they load a couple of shot cartridges first up with the reason being to minimize collateral damage rather than increase hit potential - but that's another story.

Long ago I read about the SAS doing the same thing. I always thought about loading mine that way, but I didn't have easy access to 5.56 tracers.

A visiting unit burnt down the shoot house we built the Iraqis using tracers. They set fire to the shredded rubber in the walls. The remnants of the building were still smoldering months later. Yes, tracers were prohibited in the shoot house.

Many years ago Hornady and then another company manufactured 9mm "cold" tracers and I stocked up on a bunch of them because at the time I was using an HK MP5 for subgun matches. Seeing how the MP5 does not have a lock back bolt on an empty magazine feature I started to load the last 3 rounds in the magazine with those tracers to give me a visual heads up that I was empty. The loudest sound on a range during a match, shoot house or 2 way range is pulling the trigger and just hearing a VERY LOUD click instead of the expected bang.
One other example of pattern loading I could get behind was if I was walking, hiking or working in an area with a known issue with snakes and then I could see 1 or 2 of the first rounds being a shot loaded cartridge. Other than those 2 limited circumstances I have no use for pattern loading of a handgun that is carried for general self protection.

The Army's SOP for tracers was inconsistent in my day. One version I heard said, no, they'll give your position away. Another said a squad leader, platoon sergeant or platoon leader should carry a couple of magazine full to point out targets.
Yes, the Jan Stevenson article is coming back to me, I recall his mentioning one shooter loading a tear gas round, some other exotic combinations.

My home defense is a Glock 31 .357 Sig or a SA 1911 10mm with a lever action 44 Mag in the corner. All start with JHP then will have a few flat nose or FMJ then back to the hollow points. This is the situation when I load in this manner.

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Is that a gun No a lifesaver

I load one magazine with factory self defense hp ammo and load the spare with good quality hand loaded hp and top it off with what’s left of the box of factory hp. This is for my 9mm sig..

AH...NO!!!

This makes perfect sense.

I know a Montana Sheriff who had been a tribal police officer before being elected. The tribe issued Model 66s but the only ammo they provided were .38 wadcutters. The fellas kicked in and bought a box of hollowpoints and divvied them up so each guy got three rounds. He said most guys loaded them to be first up, but he loaded them last because it took him a few shots to “get his aim.”

The problem with pattern loading (except for wartime) is that for every scenario where your set up is great there are 20 more where its not.

The closest I come is my shotgun, which is loaded with 00 buck but I have slugs in the sleeve on the stock.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Back when I was traveling a lot and all the wife would shoot was a 22, I loaded a 10 shot 617 with stingers and velocitors alternating. Like a lot of women, she was a good shot, just didn't like the noise and recoil. Not the best option, but I wouldn't want to face that combination of rounds with a woman behind the trigger. She has since moved on to 9mm.

I don't think I would do the same with a semi.

I think it used to be a 1911 thing where you'd load a hot 185 JHP in the chamber, but all 230 hardball in the mag. Just for reliability.

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Uvidíme se později, aligátore.

I’ve been “there” & agree 100%!!

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Being the son of a former Marine, 10 years USMC and 15 years USAF, my father instilled in me the need to clean my weapon after each use. After I joined the Navy as a Corpsman, I served 17 years with the Corps, and enjoyed each and every moment, except for the brig experience after fights in the bar that is. The one thing the Gunny impressed upon me was that if I did not clean my weapon after each use, and it had to pass his inspection, I'd live to regret my error. I never gave Gunny Schiable the opportunity to fix his gaze on me.

I probably should have clarified that the M1911's we (the 1st.Sgt. & I ) shot daily were our personal weapons. Our issue weapons stayed in the armory and were cleaned according to USMC policy. I was the Gunny at the time.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

IMO Pattern loading is flat out foolish. If you have to resort to using a handgun you want to stop your assailant as quickly as is possible. So load up with your most lethal ammo and aim for the COM.

I agree. Since I primarily carry a Glock 19 I don't have to be concerned with that pattern load stuff, I just load it with 15 rounds of the best JHP's I can find and be done with it.

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Live long and prosper

The (thankfully few) guys that load bird or buckshot first in a shotgun to scare away a bear before they have to kill them...
If they want to give the bear more time to maul or kill them that is their business.
The burr under my saddle is not giving a second thought about sending a wounded bear out to endanger others.

rant over

We had a guy here local to my area that got in to a defensive shooting at a gas station and he shot the bad guy and hit him with two completely different kinds of ammo.

I’m going from memory and this was probably a decade back but good guy had a Glock 30 (subcompact .45 ACP) and he had 8 rounds of 230gr Hardball but the magazine was topped off with two rounds of Cor-Bon Powr’Ball which I think was 185gr JHP but the hollow cavity of the bullet carried a round plastic ball.

I probably have the details wrong as it’s been years but the bad guy got hit at least twice, I don’t think he died and the good guy had no charges levied against him.

We didn’t get his info from the media, he told us all about it in our local forum. And when asked what his grand plan was about stoking a carry gun with two different kinds of ammo, he simply said that it’s whatever he had, whatever he grabbed and he didn’t plan anything.

Five round, six rounds, 10, 15, 18… Doesn’t matter, each should be the best you have.

Before any 1911, .45 was allowed back into our armory, it had to pass our inspection.
It stayed outside until it passed our spec's of a "Cleaned" pistol...

be it a SGT ( 1st class ) or Officer.

I've been reading this multi-ammo loading "logic" for decades and it never made a bit of sense to me. Not then, not now. If presupposes that you're always going to be faced with whatever the defense scenario was in mind when this dream mixture of ammo was cooked up. Since that never happens, you're likely to have sub-optimal rounds fired first in your gun. I guess if you live long enough in the real scenario, you'll finally roll around to the ammo that might save you.

I've been reading this multi-ammo loading "logic" for decades and it never made a bit of sense to me. Not then, not now. If presupposes that you're always going to be faced with whatever the defense scenario was in mind when this dream mixture of ammo was cooked up. Since that never happens, you're likely to have sub-optimal rounds fired first in your gun. I guess if you live long enough in the real scenario, you'll finally roll around to the ammo that might save you.

It's an interesting theory... But it assumes you have time to think about it.
My load out is quite uniform and is solely on the core principle of putting power down range

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it just needs more voltage

My brother, who arrived in Vietnam in January of 68 became a LRP/Ranger mostly in the Delta area, although he has mentioned that he went into Cambodia before we officially went into Cambodia. Anyhow, I recall him telling me a number of years ago that he loaded every other round as a tracer.

The topic came up about it giving away your position. He agreed that it did but said in the situations he was often involved in it also had the effect of, at least momentarily, making the enemy duck giving him an advantage. I don't recall the specific types of situations he was referring to but I'm guessing some sort of ambush thing.

He also said he wore out a barrel while there. He attributed it to the volume of rounds but mostly his use of tracers. He was a Spec 4 squad leader most of his time there and they generally operated as independent single 6 man units so maybe there wasn't anybody to tell him different.

I may not have been 100% accurate with that retelling as the conversation was many, many moons ago.

So were our weapons, the military issue ones. I was writing about personal M1911's. For the military weapons that were fired on the range, they had to be cleaned to "Inspection Clean" for three days after you had finished the range. Be it Officer or Enlisted.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

This is the most sensible course of action mentioned. Having no control over how a shooting may play out also means having no control over what rounds will serve what purpose.

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Stay protected my friends.

Interesting. A Marine co-worker who was "security forces" trained and guarded our nukes in England told me that the Baretta 92's they carried were not allowed to be cleaned until they had 10,000 rounds thru them. He had still not had a malfunction when his reached that threshold.

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Stay protected my friends.