Today after church I stopped by a local Chisum's (in Lincoln County, New Mexico, just 20 miles from Billy the Kid's escape from jail and murder of James Bell and Bob Olinger) for a soda and a candy bar, and there on the front door was a really big sign saying, "No Firearms in This Stor," and continuing to say that if you have one, take it off before entering the store. They sell beer, wine, and liquor in the store.

A guy in the store I knew slightly said he heard there was an incident of some kind last week with a slightly intoxicated 'open carrier,' who subsequently went to jail.

That store has been open for at least 20 years, and I've seen hunters and other folks incidentally carrying in there a lot, but never buying booze nor creating a hassle. It only takes one lout to screw things up for everyone.

One problem in 20 yrs.? Just looking for a reason? Larry

Since mine is always concealed, signs like that don't mean a thing to me

Where to begin…

The OC drunk was arrested. Sounds like the system worked and it should have been the end of the story.

The owner prohibiting lawful carry is a knee jerk reaction and a dumb move. Would he block off the parking lot if there was a fight? Would he have them close the road in front of his store if people were caught drunk driving? I’d let him know why I’m taking my business elsewhere. “Gun Free” means only scofflaw’s will be armed and that’s not a place I care to frequent.

I don’t know about NM, but we have no State prohibition on carrying in a package liquor store here in Michigan. That’s a good thing in my mind, because they’re frequently targeted by armed robbers.

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"I also cook."

Drunk carrier went to jail? GREAT 👍

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Sure you did

Unfortunately, the 20 years of no problems has no bearing on the risk today and in future when the most recent event was a drunken lout with a gun.

All it takes is that one event to put the business on notice so that the business risks liability for a subsequent event if they do nothing to reduce their risk.

I suspect that their insurer may have had some input here.

Top of the don’t mix list is firearms and Any Booze, period. Place I worked back in early 80’s had a shoot every Friday after work. Problem was they sent a guy to local 7-11 for 12 pack. They knew I was gun guy and asked why I didn’t stay and shoot, told them had to get home to take care of my goats. My goats had more sense than they had…

Felony here.

Pizz on them, You are so used to wearing your sidearm as a free American, you sometimes forget there are ANAL folks trying to deprive you of your freedoms.

You'll be long gone before the officer arrives.

Or go somewhere else to spend your money.......

Just my redneck opinion of course, think for yourself I say.

If you travel, you see some strange juxtapositions of interests in establishments. The one that still boggles my mind 30+ years later was a sign I saw along I-95 while headed way north: "Welcome to New Hampshire, Rest Stop and Liquor Store X Miles Ahead."

Yes, I stopped, I needed "to rest". Also explored the other establishment in the same building. Nice selection, decent prices. No, I didn't buy anything. Do have to wonder if it wasn't occasionally used as bait for enforcement action.

That carrying in the establishment in the OP is a felony seems to make the sign fair warning of something many might not be aware of.

I wouldn't (and don't) carry where the owners don't want it - no need to be rude. Or (in this case) a felon.

Wonder if the cops will be too stupid to review the in-store and parking lot video....

Only places I do not carry are, govt. buildings, post office, doctors offices, hospitals, nursing homes/ rehab centers and ?????.

for several years after an evening IDPA indoor practice after hours at a local GS with a range, we would head over to a pizza/bar place, all of us carrying our concealed just shot pistols. Then one day, they had a sign on the door, no firearms. So our club president and I went to visit the manager, (not the owner), and he said some fool out in the parking lot had brandished his pistol, I don't know if the idiot was a licensed carry or not, or if he had been a patron of the place. It may have been out in front of the next door Mexican restaurant. But the owners immediately put up the no-firearms sign, and our discussion with the manager, about who would protect his staff if a shooter came in, was to no avail. So none of us ever went back there again.

Oh, by the way, we were able to sell two homes and move a hundred miles into our smaller home, nearer our kids. Now we are opening several hundred boxes. It will take time, before I can set up my "gun garage", and get back into reloading and shooting. First things first. So many necessary requirements had to come together precisely to get this done, and in the midst of it all, my army truck failed 20 miles out in the woods, and getting it here was a $1300 expense, all because the prior owner put in a tiny restrictive lawn mower in-tank fuel filter, which then burned out my electric fuel pump. My slides and scanner are going to be in boxes for awhile. So good to be finally here, although I can't say we are "moved in". SF VET

In some states willfully ignoring a "no guns" sign is a chargeable offense. In other states, it's a big "meh" and all they can do is ask you to leave.

Those signs always stop criminals. Right?

Recently a store clerk shot a robber and the big complaint from the robber's family was that the clerk wasn't supposed to have a gun so it wasn't fair.

I don’t visit states I can’t carry in. I try darn hard to not shop in stores I can’t carry in. If they don’t respect my rights I don’t support their income.

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Two Handguns every day

I'm willing to bet his insurance carrier threatened to cancel him if he didn't post that notice. Another back-door form of gun control.

LDM, you are probably right on the insistence of the insurance carrier. For at least now, they are likely only at risk of a claim for allowing a concealed weapon on the premises, and have little if any risk for the consequences of a felon's use of a firearm.

Insurance is all about risk exposure anyway. The grief of a wounded or dead worker and his family is no concern of theirs. It is just business.

OSHA and insurance carriers have enormous clout when it comes to how a business operates. NV

Insurance has major clout in how our lives operate. Having said that if you own a business you should be able to decide who comes in as long as your decision follows the law. I don't have to agree or patronize which is my decision.

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Is that a gun No a lifesaver

This thread raises a thought about liability for me. Maybe there's a lawyer here who could answer, or maybe it's been answered before. If a business chooses to prevent lawfully licensed or permitted gun owners from being allowed to carry, and it's entirely on the business in that the state does not prevent it in that location, could the business be civilly liable if an assailant comes in and injures or kills the person who was disarmed by the business? Couldn't a reasonable argument be made that, had the victim not been disarmed by the business, he could have potentially defended against the attack, and that, in disarming patrons legally entitled to carry, the business is putting them at excessive risk?

Just got me thinking...

Anyone can file a suit for anything, but that doesn't mean they can win.

One problem with your scenario is 'special duty.' No merchant has a duty to keep you safe from criminal acts of third parties incidentally on the premises unless the merchant has explicitly guaranteed such. No merchant is likely to be that stupid.

Beyond that, think of it like an insurer - what are the odds? Is it more likely someone will foreseeably be injured by the criminal act of a third party or more likely someone will be foreseeably wrongfully injured by someone lawfully carrying a gun. Remember, violent crime is still quite rare (398.5 murders, rapes, robberies, agg assualts per 100,000 population in 2020), but there are lots and lots of folks lawfully carrying in 'open carry' states.

What are the odds?

https://crime-data-explorer.app.clou...me/crime-trend