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Interesting Facts from FBI Shooting Stats
Interesting Facts from FBI Shooting Stats
From: 17 Most Important Gunfight Stats: Backed By Data and Real World Experience - Tier Three Tactical
If you stand still in a gunfight you have an 85% chance of being shot, and 51% chance of being shot in the torso.
If you move and shoot you have a 47% chance of being hit, with 11% chance of a torso shot.
Seeking cover and returning fire reduces your chance of being shot to 26% with a 6% torso hit rate.
Most gunfights average 3.59 rounds per incident
The most common caliber to be shot with is 9mm
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Quote:
The most common caliber to be shot with is 9mm
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Of course it is - it is the most ubiquitous caliber extant with respect to fighting firearms in the hands of criminals and the good guys.
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09-05-2022, 04:54 PM
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Just like boxing, stick n move.
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09-05-2022, 05:12 PM
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Five year old story using ten year old data . . .
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09-05-2022, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
Five year old story using ten year old data . . .
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And the source of the data is not given.
I looked at some of the New York Police shooting incident data a couple of months ago. It did not reflect anything like what this article floats as logic. Running away and shooting back at the same time is not likely to score many hits.
Also, police data is very interesting but does not translate well into self defense. First, the police are going into dangerous situations with often mentally disturbed and logicaly challenged perpetrators. (The police officer is trained, armed with multiple weapons, and likely has friends on the way, and the perp. wants to play bad guy) The police are trying to keep desperate idiots away from the general public. Second, the police officers are "peace officers". They want to defuse the situation. They really want to avoid killing anybody - it is just too much paperwork. And it is not generally their mindset. None of those factors come out in the raw statistics. So maybe they get too close, and maybe they fire a few extra shots, simple stats are not going to explain their mindset.
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09-06-2022, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz
And the source of the data is not given.
I looked at some of the New York Police shooting incident data a couple of months ago. It did not reflect anything like what this article floats as logic. Running away and shooting back at the same time is not likely to score many hits.
Also, police data is very interesting but does not translate well into self defense. First, the police are going into dangerous situations with often mentally disturbed and logicaly challenged perpetrators. (The police officer is trained, armed with multiple weapons, and likely has friends on the way, and the perp. wants to play bad guy) The police are trying to keep desperate idiots away from the general public. Second, the police officers are "peace officers". They want to defuse the situation. They really want to avoid killing anybody - it is just too much paperwork. And it is not generally their mindset. None of those factors come out in the raw statistics. So maybe they get too close, and maybe they fire a few extra shots, simple stats are not going to explain their mindset.
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The source is given in the post above in yellow. Click on it to view and the article references further sources.
17 Most Important Gunfight Stats: Backed By Data and Real World Experience - Tier Three Tactical
That is why this is a discussion and not meant as a debate. Tactics change and as I posted; interesting facts offered for discussion from a source that I also offered.
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-06-2022 at 01:10 PM.
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09-06-2022, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
Five year old story using ten year old data . . .
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If you have better more current data feel free to add your info to the discussion so we can all gain from it!
My article is dated March 2, 2017 so please offer your info with link as I did.
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-06-2022 at 01:16 PM.
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09-13-2022, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz
...They really want to avoid killing anybody - it is just too much paperwork. And it is not generally their mindset....
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Heinz, you made me laugh.
One thing though, about "too much paperwork" - many places these days, especially the larger departments, videotape the officer's statement in a shooting, so no written statement is necessary. (Some will have the interview transcribed and the officer will sign it.) And they always get someone else to do all the reports!
So the cop that pulled the trigger might sign a thing or two, but mostly he'll sit down, wait his turn to be interviewed, and count his lucky stars that he's alive! That, and try to get his hands to stop shaking....
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09-13-2022, 04:01 AM
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I have a "Twilight Zone" shooting story....
Back in the early 80s, I worked a graveyard shift in one of the older parts of the city. Many of the buildings and houses dated to the 1800s. I was dispatched on a robbery that just occurred in one of those old Victorian-style brick houses that had been converted to a combination occult and tobacco shop. Kinda weird but they stayed open very late - I recall the time was after midnight.
I was very close since it was a small precinct that I was patrolling, and I was first on the scene. When I went in, I was surprised to see there was another officer inside whom I recognized as from the tactical motorcycle unit that patrollled the more "exciting" parts of the city. (I seem to recall that dispatch aired to use caution, officer on scene after I'd already walked in.)
Anyway, there was a guy lying on the floor near the counter, dead as a doornail, and the officer was calmly lighting a pipe with a wooden match. (Crazy how you remember little details like that, but can't remember others, like the officer's name.) And I do mean "calmly" - you'd have thought he just finished a meal and was lighting an after-dinner smoke.
So what he tells me is that he stopped in right after getting off work to get some of a particular tobacco they carried that wasn't available anywhere else. As he walked in, there was a guy at the counter with his back toward him. "Something" like a spirit "whispered in [his] ear" that the guy had a gun out. He pulled his gun, announced himself, and as the guy began to turn quickly and brought up the gun to aim, he shot him once and the guy dropped dead. Crazy, right? That's when he tells me, yeah, the place is haunted and "spirits" talk to him every time he stops by. All of this calm as an undertaker.
I never thought the same way about the old house, or that officer, ever again.... and also wondered if the dead gunman "joined the staff."
Oh by the way, back then, they took an officer's gun for ballistics tests, but issued a replacement to use until they were done. They didn't engrave anything on our guns, only suspect's.
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09-16-2022, 05:17 PM
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FWIW, last time I looked, the FBI recommends not using a strict interpretation of their statistics in some 'predictive' manner.
Their annual (and aggregate 10 year) statistics can give you a snap shot of what happened in the instances reported, in the agencies reporting the incidents. But, like the disclaimer says for investing ... past performance cannot be used to reliably predict future performance because stock market prices are unpredictable.
It's been held in LE training that each shooting incident is virtually unique. We could look at trends and more common situations and try to train to help inculcate skills in our people we hoped would be useful and practical for various types of incidents and circumstances - and consider any court case decisions that spoke to types of firearms training - and hope our people would be able to combine and apply them as may be necessary in the widest range of possible situations and circumstances.
Looking at shooting incidents and how criminals may act is like looking at some tabulation of 'fist fights' (or fights using other bodily weapons) and thinking to be able to predict the type of assault we might encounter.
Mindset, skillset and knowledge. The criminal attacker will decide the timing, circumstances, conditions and method of attack. We can only hope our training, experience and preparation is going to be practical and relevant to whatever incident may come our way, involving the unknown or unpredictable attacker(s) who decide to make it happen.
Nobody's Crystal ball, or Magic 8-Ball, is up to the task of guaranteeing success.
Just my thoughts.
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09-16-2022, 06:57 PM
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"We can only hope our training, experience and preparation is going to be practical and relevant . . ."
You forgot luck, always a wild card. :-)
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09-16-2022, 06:57 PM
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Caliber does not really matter.
Nobody wants to get shot with anything.
How many times has anyone heard of a victim being beaten, raped, wounded or killed because they shot their assailant with a caliber that was too small?
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09-16-2022, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet Bob
"We can only hope our training, experience and preparation is going to be practical and relevant . . ."
You forgot luck, always a wild card. :-)
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Luck is handled by the part of the carry gear issue falling under a rabbit's foot, charm or talisman.
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VISION AND SHOOTING
From: The Police Policy Studies Council
By Edward C. Godnig, O.D., FCOVD
Staff Member, PPSC
Source: The Police Policy Studies Council <Click to view article
Information contained within the above linked article will give firearm instructors and marksmanship students a better understanding of how vision significantly contributes to shooting ability and success. Appreciating the dominant role vision plays in directing and monitoring most of the skills used during shooting will prove useful in updating training methodology. The ultimate result of incorporating useful scientific models and research into a training curriculum should result in shooting performance enhancement.
Firearms History, Technology & Development: Sights: Iron Sights: Improving Visibility of Iron Sights<Click to view article
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-16-2022 at 10:34 PM.
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09-17-2022, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet Bob
You forgot luck, always a wild card. :-)
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I've always found my luck to be better when I prepared better.
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09-17-2022, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz
And the source of the data is not given.
I looked at some of the New York Police shooting incident data a couple of months ago. It did not reflect anything like what this article floats as logic. Running away and shooting back at the same time is not likely to score many hits.
Also, police data is very interesting but does not translate well into self defense. First, the police are going into dangerous situations with often mentally disturbed and logicaly challenged perpetrators. (The police officer is trained, armed with multiple weapons, and likely has friends on the way, and the perp. wants to play bad guy) The police are trying to keep desperate idiots away from the general public. Second, the police officers are "peace officers". They want to defuse the situation. They really want to avoid killing anybody - it is just too much paperwork. And it is not generally their mindset. None of those factors come out in the raw statistics. So maybe they get too close, and maybe they fire a few extra shots, simple stats are not going to explain their mindset.
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You make a good point. Far too many concealed carry folks overlook, perhaps intentionally, the fact that law enforcement situations and citizen self-defense are very different. Even for those without an extensive law enforcement background the differences should be evident.
The textbook gunslingers, stakeouters, and sedentary YouTubers can quote law enforcement facts and figures but how much meaning all this really has for citizen concealed carriers is less than inconclusive at best.
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09-17-2022, 12:01 PM
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Tells me if you have the chance to move, do so.
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09-17-2022, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max503
Tells me if you have the chance to move, do so.
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Funny enough, I took my kids to a Nerf gun battle today.
Way different equipment, way different odds… But movement seems to pay off there.
My 9yoa also noted that your gun takes lots of hits too.
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FBI Releases 2021 and First Quarter 2022 Statistics
Current information supplied for those of serious mindset.
FBI Releases 2021 and First Quarter 2022 Statistics from the National Use-of-Force Data Collection - FBI Releases 2021 and First Quarter 2022 Statistics from the National Use-of-Force Data Collection — FBI<View the article by clicking here
According to statistics reported to the FBI for 2021, 8,226 law enforcement agencies submitted use-of-force data to the National Use-of-Force Data Collection, which is managed by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program. These agencies represent more than 60% of all federal, state, local, tribal, and college/university sworn officers.1 Data regarding these use-of-force incidents were released today on the FBI’s Law Enforcement Data Explorer ( https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/le/uof). Take it for what it is worth.
Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program Fact Sheet View it all here> https://operationladyjustice.usdoj.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh281/files/media/document/oljfbiucrfactsheet.pdf
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09-17-2022, 11:43 PM
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Doesn’t relate to civilian self defense in any way, shape or form . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal
Current information supplied for those of serious mindset.
FBI Releases 2021 and First Quarter 2022 Statistics from the National Use-of-Force Data Collection - FBI Releases 2021 and First Quarter 2022 Statistics from the National Use-of-Force Data Collection — FBI<View the article by clicking here
According to statistics reported to the FBI for 2021, 8,226 law enforcement agencies submitted use-of-force data to the National Use-of-Force Data Collection, which is managed by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program. These agencies represent more than 60% of all federal, state, local, tribal, and college/university sworn officers.1 Data regarding these use-of-force incidents were released today on the FBI’s Law Enforcement Data Explorer ( https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/le/uof). Take it for what it is worth.
Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program Fact Sheet View it all here> https://operationladyjustice.usdoj.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh281/files/media/document/oljfbiucrfactsheet.pdf
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09-18-2022, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal
Interesting Facts from FBI Shooting Stats
From: 17 Most Important Gunfight Stats: Backed By Data and Real World Experience - Tier Three Tactical
If you stand still in a gunfight you have an 85% chance of being shot, and 51% chance of being shot in the torso.
If you move and shoot you have a 47% chance of being hit, with 11% chance of a torso shot.
Seeking cover and returning fire reduces your chance of being shot to 26% with a 6% torso hit rate.
Most gunfights average 3.59 rounds per incident
The most common caliber to be shot with is 9mm
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Most of these stats fit w/my experience w/two exceptions: The bad guy was firing a Ruger single action .45; and I went through twelve rounds (reloaded the Colt DS) before the dust settled. My buddy said getting hit w/that .45 felt like getting slammed in the chest with a telephone pole.
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09-18-2022, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
Doesn’t relate to civilian self defense in any way, shape or form . . .
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I did not make a claim they did. I just offered the data for information. Sift it for anything you may learn as I did. One's learning should never stop.
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-18-2022 at 02:57 PM.
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09-18-2022, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal
I did not make a claim they did. I just offered the data for information. Sift it for anything you may learn as I did. One's learning should never stop.
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True, you made no claims, but you're providing the information to a group largely comprised of civilian concealed carriers, many of whom seem to interpret law enforcement facts, figures, and procedures as something that carries over to civilian concealed carry.
Law enforcement and civilian concealed carry are very different. As such, it's certainly easy to recognize the validity of the Muggins comment.
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09-18-2022, 03:33 PM
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Thanks for you contribution, it is pertinent.
However, I am more concerned about the "average citizen". Someone who may be older and less mobile. In these situations, the better prepared I am before an incident occurs the more luck I will entice. Things like casing your own place for vulnerabilities, choosing the "right" caliber and ammunition I can fire comfortably/accurately are my top priorities.
I just received a new product email from Federal. They now make defensive .22 caliber ammunition at a decent price (Punch). It's designed to have consistent performance, which is the major complaint among the experts (not me) here. I propose that a less competent person would have more "luck" with this type of setup than a 9mm weapon.
I ALWAYS advocate for suppression, even with .22.
We pays our money and takes our chances!
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09-18-2022, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry
True, you made no claims, but you're providing the information to a group largely comprised of civilian concealed carriers, many of whom seem to interpret law enforcement facts, figures, and procedures as something that carries over to civilian concealed carry.
Law enforcement and civilian concealed carry are very different. As such, it's certainly easy to recognize the validity of the Muggins comment.
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Some of it does and that is why one sifts through the data for that information. One has to be intelligent enough to differentiate; if not, is one really qualified to have a carry permit? One should study the legalities of carry and the use of deadly force even more than is given to the "average police officer" in case you ever have to use said deadly force as Massad Ayoob says.
You want to protect yourself against any over eager prosecutor out to get anyone who defends themselves with a firearm and knowlege of the law is key.
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-18-2022 at 04:14 PM.
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09-18-2022, 03:53 PM
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Books like below are must reading for every civilian who wants to carry a handgun in self-defense because even if you successfully defend yourself that is just the beginning:
Stressfire, Vol. 1 (Gunfighting for Police: Advanced Tactics and Techniques) by Massad F. Ayoob
Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense by Massad F. Ayoob
The Law of Self Defense: The Indispensable Guide to the Armed Citizen by Andrew F. Branca
Concealed Carry Class: The ABCs of Self-Defense Tools and Tactics - by Tom Givens
Tactical Pistol: Advanced Gunfighting Concepts and Techniques -by Gabriel Suarez
The Modern Day Gunslinger: The Ultimate Handgun Training Manual by Don Mann
And these are just scrathing the surface if you really want to be prepared for what will happen. But you have to put them into action and practice not just read them.
I have all the above and many more as learning and knowledge are key; never stop learning.
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-18-2022 at 04:22 PM.
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09-18-2022, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal
I did not make a claim they did. . .
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You mean other than posting in the “Concealed Carry & Self Defense” forum, right . . . ?
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09-18-2022, 06:23 PM
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LE experience does not translate directly, but does provide data points that can be considered for their value. For example, my regular assertion that anyone who possesses a firearm and considers a defensive use even remotely possible needs to own and read "In defense of Self and others ..." by Patrick and Hall (3rd edition). (Not the full title, but your search engine will get you there.) Not all of it applies to civilian use, but for example, the discussions of ballistics will cross-pollinate and are very useful.
One critical lesson quoted here from the FBI pubs is the need to move. Not "shoot and run away", but for example move laterally on the draw and as much as possible after shooting. Even a foot sideways improves your odds a lot. And this is NOT NEW - it has to be at 20 or more years old training.
I work real hard to avoid places that have a greater chance of bad stuff. There are places I went as a cop that I simply will not go now. Don't need to, don't want to. (I hated working days, the crummiest shift there is, and now I am rarely out after dinner.) I have been in a couple of scenarios that looked like they could go sideways based on my experience (odd behavior by another customer, etc.) My first thought was to find a solid looking object to put between me and the other person while I observed. (Leaving was not really an option as I had to get real close to him to get to the door.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
You mean other than posting in the “Concealed Carry & Self Defense” forum, right . . . ?
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I posted a link to FBI material. If you cannot understand that difference I cannot help you. Live and learn.
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-18-2022 at 07:34 PM.
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09-19-2022, 08:23 AM
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Duly noted . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal
I posted a link to FBI material. If you cannot understand that difference I cannot help you. Live and learn.
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09-19-2022, 09:11 AM
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Based on one single personal incident, move. If possible, run. Run to cover. Makes it much harder for whoever is doing the shooting to put a round into you. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.
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09-19-2022, 08:24 PM
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Based on what I've heard on the local news lately I make the inference that criminals are a lot more willing to shoot at cops these days.
From that I extrapolate that a criminal that's willing to shoot at a cop would probably be just as if not more willing to shoot at me.
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09-20-2022, 07:44 AM
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85% of gun fights occur between 3-5 yards.
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09-24-2022, 07:46 PM
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Must reading and viewing for anyone who carries a gun
And to this I can not recomend highly enough!
Must reading and viewing for anyone who carries a gun and might have to use it to defend themselves or others is the "Tactical Anatomy Instructor Manual" by MD James S. Williams in my humble opinion. It was originally designed for elite police and Federal Law enforcement agencies but applies to civilian self-defense equally!
SOURCE:Tactical Anatomy Instructor Manual – Tactical Anatomy Systems LLC <View it all here
This Manual was written by Dr. Williams based on his experience training officers in the Tactical Anatomy Systems™ Shooting With Xray Vision method. It is intended to give any law enforcement or military firearms instructor the material he needs to teach three-dimensional target visualization to his personnel. Designed to be a ‘turn-key’ package, the manual consists of a 127-page full-color textbook that you can print and three dynamic PowerPoint slide presentations delivered digitally at the same time as the PDF manual. The Manual is broken down into 5 lesson plans, with supplementary and background material to aid the instructor in presenting the lessons to his classes.
Any questions, as I have it all? I will not post his work but I will answer reasonable questions about it.
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-24-2022 at 08:11 PM.
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09-24-2022, 08:20 PM
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Seems like prepping for The Big Gunfight requires lots of time and effort.
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09-24-2022, 08:34 PM
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I am now a firm believer in ceramic plates and duct tape.
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09-24-2022, 08:36 PM
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Frying pans and twine.
Last edited by biku324; 09-24-2022 at 08:38 PM.
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09-24-2022, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biku324
Seems like prepping for The Big Gunfight requires lots of time and effort.
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Not really, I'm a voracious reader and researcher of subjects I am interested in like guns, hunting (both game and men, such as tracking), the Bible, fishing, etc. so I search out hard to find information, study it for both practicality and usefulness, and put what I feel is worthy into practice discarding the rest. I don't drink, use drugs, or have the vices that many people do so I have a lot of study time that I gretly enjoy.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that my degree was in psychology and I also took criminal justice post grad studing the criminal mind even though I worked for a major Oil Company that funded my study.
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-24-2022 at 08:42 PM.
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09-24-2022, 08:41 PM
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I need no further study as I have an autographed copy of The Chronicles of Gecko45.
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09-24-2022, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustyt1953
I need no further study as I have an autographed copy of The Chronicles of Gecko45.
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Then enjoy! As I never stop learning!
Albert Einstein is reported to have stated, “Once you stop learning, you start dying”
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-24-2022 at 08:50 PM.
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09-24-2022, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biku324
Seems like prepping for The Big Gunfight requires lots of time and effort.
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Indeed a worthwhile post.
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09-24-2022, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biku324
Seems like prepping for The Big Gunfight requires lots of time and effort.
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Given this group of statistics, only if you're a cop. Or a bad guy . . .
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09-24-2022, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal
Must reading and viewing for anyone who carries a gun and might have to use it to defend themselves or others is the "Tactical Anatomy Instructor Manual" by MD James S. Williams in my humble opinion. It was originally designed for elite police and Federal Law enforcement agencies but applies to civilian self-defense equally!
. . .
Any questions, as I have it all? I will not post his work but I will answer reasonable questions about it.
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I got a couple. How in the wide wide world of sports does a use of force study for people who are trying to put people in handcuffs apply to people who just want to go home? And why would any LEO study about shooting crooks ever apply to regular people . . .?
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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
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09-24-2022, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
I got a couple. How in the wide wide world of sports does a use of force study for people who are trying to put people in handcuffs apply to people who just want to go home? And why would any LEO study about shooting crooks ever apply to regular people . . .?
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Try reading the information and perhaps your question would be answered.
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09-24-2022, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal
Try reading the information and perhaps your question would be answered.
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Don't assume I didn't. I still have the same questions . . .
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09-24-2022, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
Don't assume I didn't. I still have the same questions . . .
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So you went to James S. Williams site and signed up for the material and then you don't have a clue how it could function for civilian self-defense? Or you just skimed the titles and then ASSUMED?
OK, I am assuming you read the material. You don't think any civilian could benefit from "Three-Dimensional Target Visualization:Firearms Training With a Medical Perspective?" Or are you just nitpicking anything and everything I post and be honest?
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-24-2022 at 09:50 PM.
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09-24-2022, 10:13 PM
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The essence of winning gunfights
From the Tactical Anatomy Instructor Manual:
“This is ‘surgical speed shooting’ at its finest and should be mandatory training for
everyone empowered to carry a firearm… Tactical AnatomySM is the essence of winning
gunfights, which to my mind is the point of getting into a gunfight in the first place … to
win! …It is a thinking man’s book and is destined to become one of the era’s most
controversial books.”
Dr. James Williams is a fulltime emergency medicine physician who also serves as Medical Officer for the City of
Ripon, WI Police Dept. He has almost two decades of experience teaching high school and collegiate students. A lifelong hunter and avid competitive shooter with State and Regional titles to his credit, he is an active NRA certified firearms instructor. By synthesizing his expertise in medicine, teaching, and firearms marksmanship training, he developed the unique Tactical Anatomy.
Any more questions, Muss Muggins?
Last edited by YkcorCal; 09-25-2022 at 02:24 AM.
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09-24-2022, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal
Albert Einstein is reported to have stated, “Once you stop learning, you start dying”
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I guess old Al stopped learning.
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09-24-2022, 11:29 PM
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Well, it's all relative.
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09-25-2022, 12:06 AM
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Much like the book I cited, it may not directly apply - but if you end up having to shoot someone, knowing where you need to deliver hits is vital. Carrying a gun for personal defense does not end with buying a gun and a holster. That is barely enough to get the point of making errors.
If one is going to make use of the firearm as a tool, there are lots of things one must know. Threat recognition and avoidance are important - if you see something going sideways even a few seconds before it does, you are ahead of the curve. You can leave, prepare to shoot, whatever works. Knowing that there are better places to hit an assailant with your projectiles is darned important.
Fighting with a gun is not about having the latest and great platform and ammo - it is about using your brain to get the most of value of the gun and lots of other things.
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