So am I the only one?

[Charlton Heston]

Whos freaked out about cc with a round chambered? It just doesnt feel right to me. I realize these firearms dont go off by themselves, but if theres no round chambered theres zero chance of that. I dont like knowing theres a round chambered in my gun which is down my pants family and friends around with nothing more than a little pin hovering behind it ready to go bang. The chances of pulling my gun in a real life situation are prolly nill. Id rather have to rack the slide than keep one chambered. Your thoughts? EDIT: my 40c has no external safety

[MichiganScott]

Seconds count.

You may not have the seconds needed to draw and rack the slide.

[snubbyfan]

I just carry one of these things, then the chambered round thing's a moot point.

[Charlton Heston]

i thought about that after posting. might have to reevaluate my carry weapon

[SWIll]

I agree with snubbyfan. Carrying a revolver negates that issue. I do carry with one in the chamber on the occasion that I carry the M&P. Do what makes you feel comfortable; I would consider a semi without one in the chamber to be a liability, not an asset, myself.

[george minze]

Having been in Law Enforcement my entire adult life I can't even imagine any way to carry than one in the chamber....When I started we had revolvers and there was never ever a question on how you carried. When we went to the 39-2 it was carried ready for first double action shot...Even with a 1911 style it was carried in condition one...I admit police firearm training is a little different than civilian carry..More a mind set than anything else....I watch movies and you see even Cops rack the slide, what foolishness. I never knew a policeman that carried with a empty chamber..I will take that back I watched Israeli police shooter's draw and rack slide in split second movements and hit the bulls eye....They spent months getting that proficient. That was at Bianchi Cup....

[Thunder452]

You may want to invest in an auto with a safety..John.

[Cal44]

For a revolver, with a normal, heavy long double action pull, I think it's reasonable to keep a round in the chamber.

For a pistol like my LC9, that has a safety, and also a long double action trigger, I think it's OK to have a round in the chamber.

I looked at a Ruger LCP recently, and it has no safety and I would worry about carrying it with a round in the pipe. Just me.

BTW, on another board someone posted a story about an LEO who was standing in line at a fast food place carrying his 2 yr old.

The kid reached into his pocket and discharged his backup gun.

Bullet hit the floor of the restaurant, and a couple people including the LEO were hit with shrapnel, but no one seriously hurt.

Don't know what kind of off duty gun he was carrying.

[rwsmith]

If I were to carry an auto pistol, I don't want to have to manipulate ANYTHING because under pressure you can screw up the simplest action. DA Revolver and DAO pistol for me.

[Harkrader]

I was first trained in carry of the Colt Government Model ("1911") as chamber empty, hammer down. Remember, that's due to the military imperative of NO ONE fires without orders to do so.

Starting in 1972 I saw military LEO (MP & SP) carrying HiPowers and Colts cocked and locked because they were going into situations where they would have to be able to shoot "RIGHT ****** NOW!"
All civilian training I had subsequent was cocked and locked.

The key factors were (and are):
1. Proper training and practice.
2. Discipline.
3. A proper holster.

I have NO issues with cocked and locked. For me, it is the only way to carry a SA defensive auto.

[RalphMP9FS]

Yes, seconds do count, but the chances of encountering a life threatening bad guy are almost nil compared to having a negligent/accidental discharge. Half the people I see at the gun range scare the hell out of me when I observe them handling their semi's and probably 20% of them have their concealed carry license.

[Harkrader]

Another thought:
Some years ago I witnessed Israeli training. The issue was how to use a "battlefield pickup." The people I saw could draw or pick up a chamber-empty semi-auto and rack the slide and point/aim in a fraction of a second. The idea was that a person did not know the condition of a pickup, so the safest thing to do was rack the slide every time. The only caveat I have for self-defense carry is how that would work with one hand injured or otherwise busy.

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by SWIll

I agree with snubbyfan. Carrying a revolver negates that issue. I do carry with one in the chamber on the occasion that I carry the M&P. Do what makes you feel comfortable; I would consider a semi without one in the chamber to be a liability, not an asset, myself.

There is no ISSUE. Proper training and experience is required no matter what type of gun is used.

[Squarebutt]

There have been several threads on this subject. The biggest danger when carrying a striker-fired pistol is when holstering. They won't fire unless the trigger is pressed. Problems happen when the trigger snags on a jacket drawstring or something similar. If you use care in holstering and use a quality holster you should be fine. Carrying one loose in your pocket or jammed into your waistband is a very bad idea.

[USAF385]

It sounds like you're possibly new to firearms, and should invest in some training and familiarization with gun operation. There's no need for concern as long as you handle the gun properly and carry it in a proper holster.

Best of luck finding your concealed carry option, and be safe!

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by Charlton Heston

Whos freaked out about cc with a round chambered? It just doesnt feel right to me. I realize these firearms dont go off by themselves, but if theres no round chambered theres zero chance of that. I dont like knowing theres a round chambered in my gun which is down my pants family and friends around with nothing more than a little pin hovering behind it ready to go bang. The chances of pulling my gun in a real life situation are prolly nill. Id rather have to rack the slide than keep one chambered. Your thoughts? EDIT: my 40c has no external safety

You'll get used to it.

Most accidents happen during administrative handling. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER!

If you trust your carry gun, carry with a round chambered. It will NOT just go off by itself.

[kevin in nh]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

There is no ISSUE. Proper training and experience is required no matter what type of gun is used.

Exactly....you live or die by your training....or lack there of...when TSHTF you instantly revert to how you were trained....and the less you train, shoot etc you may not survive.....

[Rick_A]

I carry either a revolver or single action semi auto.

My range guns are also my carry guns so they are quite familiar to me.

Carrying on an empty seems a bit pointless.

[Charlton Heston]

still makes me nervous. I think im gonna look at a 686

[Charlton Heston]

and yes im new to firearms. Thanks for all the responses

[gregintenn]

If you aren't comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber, you have the wrong gun.

[arjay]

Carry one you're comfortable with.

[bmb96mus]

I don't understand why someone would think one gun with a round chamber is safer then another with a round chambered. Like everyone else have said, proper training is key. Both guns have a trigger that have to be pulled to go off

[KEN L]

The answer to your question is: You're the only one!

Actually there are probably a lot of people who feel the same as you, but needlessly. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

[Charlton Heston]

Originally Posted by bmb96mus

I don't understand why someone would think one gun with a round chamber is safer then another with a round chambered. Like everyone else have said, proper training is key. Both guns have a trigger that have to be pulled to go off

i think the difference would be a chambered striker round and a chambered double/single action revolver

[MarkAlt]

Originally Posted by Charlton Heston

still makes me nervous. I think im gonna look at a 686

Fight or flight. If we select the former, with lethal force, most recounts of gunfights include reactions of instinct and tunnel vision.

Training can be converted into instinctive reactions. If you aren't comfortable with your firearm in a safe environment then things could go very wrong under intense pressure.

I only carry revolvers because I've been training with them for double-digit years and continue to train.

Wish you well in all your choices!

[sheep.dog]

I, personally, would never carry a pistol without a round ready to go. I want my self defense weapon to be deadly effective the moment after it leaves the holster. I've made the switch to revolvers now but i have always carried striker and hammer fired semis with one in the chamber.

[STCM(SW)]

Only time I carried with no round in the chamber was in the Navy.
That was there rules.......

[BlackAgnes]

It's refreshing that this has not descended into emotional outbursts, name-calling, and personal denigration.

The folks on this forum, thanks to Lee and his mods, are unfailingly polite and reasonable.

Tim

[GerSan69]

Quality striker-fired pistols are no more or less "safe" than any other firearm. The primary source of any problem is the operator, so take that to heart and decide what's best for you. No one is going to give you grief for switching to a revolver if it gives you more peace of mind and confidence.

[Charlton Heston]

and it refreshingly opens ones eyes

[shouldazagged]

Originally Posted by Charlton Heston

i think the difference would be a chambered striker round and a chambered double/single action revolver

That is a real difference, true. I carry a DAO revolver now, but carried a Glock for a while, and had a Smith 4011 and 469. I went back to revolvers less for safety in carry than for my own view (outmoded, I'm sure) that they are more reliable.

But I don't worry about reholstering.

[Doug M.]

That story about the deputy whose kid reached into his pocket stinks to high heaven. At best, the lackwit was pocket carrying without having the pistol in a holster. Shameful. He also had no situational awareness. At least as shameful.

OP: If you are not comfortable carrying a pistol for serious purposes ready to use, you are not ready to carry a pistol for serious purposes. The fact that entities in Israel have trained to work with firearms that are carried without a chambered round does not make it anything other than clownshoes. Barring the most unusual design/manufacturing errors, firearms of reasonable quality simply do not "just go off". Something pressed the trigger. Period. There are TONS of people who carry pistols like yours without any problem; M&Ps in various calibers, Glocks, etc. If there is a problem, it is the shooter. I have been carrying one model or another of a Glock for most of the last 25 years, darned near all the time. The only issue I have ever had was on a range, trying a technique that allowed me to put my finger on the trigger where it did not belong. The error was MINE. The pistol was not the problem - I was. That was in the fall of 1989, and that technique was discarded right then.

A good friend is an armorer and instructor for the Washington State Patrol, which issues M&P 40s like yours. They have had a couple NDs, at least one of which had serious consequences. (Idiot probably should have been prosecuted, and certainly fired, but that's another issue.) A command officer who maybe knows just enough to be dangerous thought it was a gun problem and it took a lot of effort to keep him from mandating increased trigger pull weights. Know and follow the 4 firearm safety rules, and it is virtually impossible to have an ND, or to otherwise cause unintended harm.

You need to do some significant research, and preferably obtain real training. Reading between the lines leads me to be concerned that you are simply not educated enough about firearms to take care of your own best interests. What training have you gotten about use of force, tactics, threat recognition and the like?

[Highhawk1948]

trade it for a revolver.

[Hapworth]

Originally Posted by BlackAgnes

It's refreshing that this has not descended into emotional outbursts, name-calling, and personal denigration.

The folks on this forum, thanks to Lee and his mods, are unfailingly polite and reasonable.

Tim

Agreed, and I'll add a kudos to Charlton Heston: he's new to firearms and the forum, shared a legitimate concern, asked the relevant questions, and is making adjustments based on his desire to carry in the manner he sees fit.

Good on you, CH.

[G.T. Smith]

I think for me it all depends upon where I'm carrying. I cdarry a 37 most of the time and it always has 5 rounds in it. My Colt government gets carried a little and although I am confident that the series 80 firing system is safe being carried cocked and locked, I don't do it all the time. Practice the draw and rack a few times. Not that hard. I've heard it said that an empty gun is a hammer.
Peace,
gordon

[Rastoff]

This question comes up from time to time. It's a perfectly understandable response considering the fact that a gun was designed to inflict serious injury.

No, it doesn't "freak me out" and hasn't for at least 7 years now. I believe my calm with this is due largely to my intimate understanding of how the gun works.

For the M&P, as long as the striker block is functioning, the gun won't fire unless the trigger is held back. It can't be dropped, hammered or kicked to make it go off. Still, this is my own understanding and others may still be concerned.

So, I have a suggestion to help. Carry your M&P with an empty chamber. At the end of every day, check to see that the sear is still cocked. After some time, this will give you confidence that the sear will not release inadvertently. After a week or so you'll gain enough confidence to carry with one in the chamber. It will still feel weird, but that will fade over time.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Charlton Heston

The chances of pulling my gun in a real life situation are prolly nill.

Then why carry at all?

I’ve told this story before but when I first started carrying someone tried to mug me. I was new to carrying and I carried with an empty chamber for “safety”.

Long story short, the guy jumped me and I drew and in my panic completely forgot that there wasn’t a round in the chamber.

I got lucky in that the sight of the gun was enough to send the guy running but I want to be clear that if he hadn’t broke off the attack he would have got to me while I was still trying to pull the trigger on an unloaded gun.

I’ve been carrying third gen S&Ws hammer down on a loaded chamber ever since (15+ years) and recently added a no safety Shield to the stable. I always carry with a loaded chamber and have yet to have a gun “just go off” without me pulling the trigger.

That said, Your circus, your monkeys

[usm1rifle]

The only way I carry is with one in the chamber, I am too old to think I could draw, rack and present before a threat could do me in.

[John R]

I want my CCW gun as ready as possible, to go bang with the least amount fumbling around.
Carry with one in the chamber, or maybe consider a revolver

[mrrick]

The Israeli protocol is to carry with an empty chamber. In this video, at around 9:00 and 9:20 minutes, the pistol pulled and slide racked. It's very fast! The Israelis probably have more experience than most. Practice and training is the key.
Do what you're most comfortable with, but always be tactically/situationally aware!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5deUAF3af4Q

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by SWIll

I agree with snubbyfan. Carrying a revolver negates that issue.

A true understanding about how a firearm operates also negates that issue . . .

[LVSteve]

No, you're not the only one. My late wife didn't like the bedside gun kept with one up the spout. It's all about the individual's comfort level.

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by mrrick

The Israeli protocol is to carry with an empty chamber. In this video, at around 9:00 and 9:20 minutes, the pistol pulled and slide racked. It's very fast!

Yes, but what if his support hand were injured?

I can see the value in carrying with an empty chamber if you have another gun as your primary tool. Sure, the Israeli method can be done quickly, but never as fast as having a round already chambered.

If a person wants to carry with an empty chamber, fine. Just understand the limitations of doing so. Don't have the illusion that it can be just as fast as a round already chambered; it isn't. It's all about the level of risk you're willing to deal with.

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

Yes, but what if his support hand were injured?

I can see the value in carrying with an empty chamber if you have another gun as your primary tool. Sure, the Israeli method can be done quickly, but never as fast as having a round already chambered.

If a person wants to carry with an empty chamber, fine. Just understand the limitations of doing so. Don't have the illusion that it can be just as fast as a round already chambered; it isn't. It's all about the level of risk you're willing to deal with.

And, their primary weapon is a long gun.

To compare concealed carry to what soldiers do in battle are two different things.

[feralmerril]

I dont know if anyone mentioned it but the BIGGEST help is the right holster. You want one that has a leather snap that is between the hammer and firing pin. These pictures probley are too small to see. This is a old Remington Rand worked over by Pachmyer many years ago. Just research types of holsters. It will give you a lot of confidence to trust one in the chamber with the hammer cocked.

[Trons]

I'm pretty new to guns and I carry "one in the pipe" If I'm home, I have the safety on. If I'm leaving the house, I turn the safety off. When I target shoot, I practice thumbing the safety on every draw, regardless of whether I know it's active or not. I figure if I instinctively thumb the safety on draw, then I'm covered either way.

I keep the safety on at the house because of the children. All my children know how to shoot. They know to check a gun when it's handed to them (at least the two I own) and they all know how to field strip it. I've never seen one of my children put a finger on the trigger unless it was pointed down range, and they always hand it back to me safely.

I wasn't raised around guns so it was weird when I started. I'm trying to do different by my children. So far, So good.

[jimmyj]

1. identify threat
2. draw, point, pull trigger, BANG !
this is the reason if I not carrying a revolver, I carry a Glock.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by mrrick

The Israeli protocol is to carry with an empty chamber. In this video, at around 9:00 and 9:20 minutes, the pistol pulled and slide racked. It's very fast! The Israelis probably have more experience than most. Practice and training is the key.

Time to post this again

Since the Israelis are reflexively brought up every time someone mentions carrying with an empty chamber, maybe we should look at why they carry (or carried) with an empty chamber.

When the Israeli Defense Force was originally formed back in the 40s, they were armed with whatever weapons they, as a nation, could quickly acquire. This meant that their pistols were a mish-mash of different designs. Some single action, some double action, some with safeties, and some without. Many were not drop safe. Many did not have holsters.

They needed one simple method to train a large number of people, many of them inexperienced in the use of arms, regardless of what weapon they had. The result was to carry with the chamber empty and rack on the draw. This method:

1) works regardless of the gun's design (SA, DA, safety, no safety)
2) prevents a non-drop-safe gun from going off if dropped (a real possibility when you just stick it in your waistband because you don't have a holster)
3) avoids the possibility of someone not accustomed to a safety sticking a loaded, cocked, and unlocked single action into their waistband

It is important to note that this method IS A COMPROMISE.

There is no tactical advantage to be gained from carrying this way. In fact there is a tactical disadvantage, because it requires both hands. With a modern firearm, there is no safety advantage to be gained from carrying chamber empty, either. (One possible exception to this is someone trying to shoot you with your own gun, but if you are planning your carry method based on someone stealing your concealed gun from you before you can react, perhaps you should reconsider carrying a gun.)

If you need to use a gun in self defense, you're already behind the curve because:
A) You didn't see the situation coming in time to avoid it.
B) You weren't able to find and take an escape from the situation once it started.
C) You weren't able to control or de-escalate the situation before a gun became your only option.
D) You need a gun RIGHT NOW.
E) Your gun is still in its holster (because you don't draw before you need it, right?)

Why put yourself at a further disadvantage by having that holstered gun unloaded as well?

You are not a member of the IDF. You are not mandated to carry your gun in a less-than-optimal manner. Why would you choose to handicap yourself this way? Why would you carry in a manner that may require more hands than you'll have available? That takes more time to deploy? That precludes the ability to fire from retention? That requires putting the gun out there in a place that's bad for retention?

The Israelis don't carry chamber empty because it's tacti-cool. It was a compromise that gained a bit of needed safety at the cost of tactical advantage. Today, now that they have standardized, modern pistols, many Israelis (like SWAT and Special Forces units) do carry with a loaded chamber.


Just carry with one in the pipe, already.

[rwsmith]

This isn't the Israeli army. Most of us are civilians and even non-LEOs. Being able to whip out a gun and rack it in the blink of an eye is a good goal but, realistically, many people aren't going to reach that level of training.