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Old 12-01-2008, 02:28 PM
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Video at website
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-1127...530,full.story

Details of Dunkin' Donuts robberies cast suspects as 'brazen'

By Macollvie Jean-François, Sallie James, Rafael A. Olmeda and Maria Herrera | South Florida Sun-Sentinel
2:58 PM EST, November 28, 2008

Brazen armed robbers have terrorized two Dunkin' Donuts shops in as many days, shooting five innocent bystanders during hold-ups that lasted mere seconds.

One man stood facing the counter of the Dunkin' Donuts at 4900 North State Road 7 in Tamarac about 9:15 p.m. Thursday when two masked robbers stormed in.

One of the robbers shot the man in the back with a shotgun, and the victim's relatives said this afternoon that he may never walk again.

On Wednesday night, four robbers barged into the Dunkin' Donuts at 4800 W. Atlantic Ave. in Delray Beach.

One of the robbers put a shotgun to a customer's face and pulled the trigger, and two other customers also were wounded.

One of the robbers then shot a driver who flashed his high beams, police said. The victims are expected to survive.

Despite the similarities in the cases, authorities said this afternoon that it's still too soon to tell whether the crimes are related. But investigators in Broward and Palm Beach counties say they are working together to find the robbers.

"They're brazen. They're bold. They're dangerous," Broward Sheriff's Office spokesman Mike Jachles. "We want to get them off the streets."

The Sheriff's Office identified the shooting victim in the Tamarac hold-up as Kiem Huynh, 56, of Fort Lauderdale. He remains in critical condition at Broward General Medical Center in Fort Lauderdale.

The robbers gave no warning to Huynh and others inside the doughnut shop before one of them opened fire, investigators said.

The gunman "didn't say one word. He just came in blazing," Broward sheriff's robbery Detective Trevor Goodwin said. "He never told them to do anything."

After Huynh was shot, a second robber walked into the shop and ordered everyone people inside onto the floor, the surveillance tape shows.

Police said there were eight people in the store at the time, including customers and employees.

The robbers took a purse, some keys, and other valuables.

The second robber jumped over the counter and tried to steal from the cash register, but he couldn't get the drawer open, Goodwin said. So he jumped back over the counter and the two men ran out of the store, then disappeared heading toward the back of the building.

The robbers are believed to have fled in a light-colored, four-door vehicle.

In the Delray Beach case, surveillance video show four men dressed in black wearing masks. They are seen entering the doughnut shop on Atlantic Avenue at 10:22 p.m. Wednesday.

Two men jump the counter as employees run to the back of the store. The two others order a group of customers to the ground.

"They are going through everyone's pockets," said Delray Beach police spokesman Jeff Messer. "The victims were doing everything they were told to do."

Police said two robbers carried handguns and a third had a shotgun.

In the video, the robber carrying the shotgun is seen shooting a man in the face at close range. Then he shoots another.

After the men rifled through the customers' pockets and cleaned out the cash register, they ran out of the store.

"They started randomly shooting people who were compliant," Messer said. "This is a senseless crime."

Investigators said that as the robbers fled, a man driving a Chevy Lumina on Whatley Road flashed his high beams at the men running in the road.

One of the robbers fired at the car, hitting the man in the face through the windshield.

A fourth victim later showed up at the VA Medical Center in Riviera Beach with what police described as a shotgun pellet wound to his leg.

Police did not release the identity of the victims in the Delray Beach robbery. Two were taken to Delray Medical Center.

It's unclear what kind of ammunition the men had for the shotgun or how much money they took.

"It couldn't have been more than a couple hundred dollars," Messer said. "To have this happen on Thanksgiving eve adds to the sadness of it."

Police are offering a $5,000 reward to anyone with information that leads to an arrest in the Delray Beach case, in addition to a $1,000 reward offered by Crime Stoppers.

"Somebody knows who did this," Messer said. "The community is at risk with these guys out there."

Investigators ask anyone with information in the Delray Beach case to call the Police Department at 561-243-7800 or Crime Stoppers at 800-458-TIPS (8477). Anyone with information about the Tamarac case should call Broward Crime Stoppers at 954-493-TIPS (8477).

Staff writer Sofia Santana contributed to this story.
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2008, 02:28 PM
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Video at website
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-1127...530,full.story

Details of Dunkin' Donuts robberies cast suspects as 'brazen'

By Macollvie Jean-François, Sallie James, Rafael A. Olmeda and Maria Herrera | South Florida Sun-Sentinel
2:58 PM EST, November 28, 2008

Brazen armed robbers have terrorized two Dunkin' Donuts shops in as many days, shooting five innocent bystanders during hold-ups that lasted mere seconds.

One man stood facing the counter of the Dunkin' Donuts at 4900 North State Road 7 in Tamarac about 9:15 p.m. Thursday when two masked robbers stormed in.

One of the robbers shot the man in the back with a shotgun, and the victim's relatives said this afternoon that he may never walk again.

On Wednesday night, four robbers barged into the Dunkin' Donuts at 4800 W. Atlantic Ave. in Delray Beach.

One of the robbers put a shotgun to a customer's face and pulled the trigger, and two other customers also were wounded.

One of the robbers then shot a driver who flashed his high beams, police said. The victims are expected to survive.

Despite the similarities in the cases, authorities said this afternoon that it's still too soon to tell whether the crimes are related. But investigators in Broward and Palm Beach counties say they are working together to find the robbers.

"They're brazen. They're bold. They're dangerous," Broward Sheriff's Office spokesman Mike Jachles. "We want to get them off the streets."

The Sheriff's Office identified the shooting victim in the Tamarac hold-up as Kiem Huynh, 56, of Fort Lauderdale. He remains in critical condition at Broward General Medical Center in Fort Lauderdale.

The robbers gave no warning to Huynh and others inside the doughnut shop before one of them opened fire, investigators said.

The gunman "didn't say one word. He just came in blazing," Broward sheriff's robbery Detective Trevor Goodwin said. "He never told them to do anything."

After Huynh was shot, a second robber walked into the shop and ordered everyone people inside onto the floor, the surveillance tape shows.

Police said there were eight people in the store at the time, including customers and employees.

The robbers took a purse, some keys, and other valuables.

The second robber jumped over the counter and tried to steal from the cash register, but he couldn't get the drawer open, Goodwin said. So he jumped back over the counter and the two men ran out of the store, then disappeared heading toward the back of the building.

The robbers are believed to have fled in a light-colored, four-door vehicle.

In the Delray Beach case, surveillance video show four men dressed in black wearing masks. They are seen entering the doughnut shop on Atlantic Avenue at 10:22 p.m. Wednesday.

Two men jump the counter as employees run to the back of the store. The two others order a group of customers to the ground.

"They are going through everyone's pockets," said Delray Beach police spokesman Jeff Messer. "The victims were doing everything they were told to do."

Police said two robbers carried handguns and a third had a shotgun.

In the video, the robber carrying the shotgun is seen shooting a man in the face at close range. Then he shoots another.

After the men rifled through the customers' pockets and cleaned out the cash register, they ran out of the store.

"They started randomly shooting people who were compliant," Messer said. "This is a senseless crime."

Investigators said that as the robbers fled, a man driving a Chevy Lumina on Whatley Road flashed his high beams at the men running in the road.

One of the robbers fired at the car, hitting the man in the face through the windshield.

A fourth victim later showed up at the VA Medical Center in Riviera Beach with what police described as a shotgun pellet wound to his leg.

Police did not release the identity of the victims in the Delray Beach robbery. Two were taken to Delray Medical Center.

It's unclear what kind of ammunition the men had for the shotgun or how much money they took.

"It couldn't have been more than a couple hundred dollars," Messer said. "To have this happen on Thanksgiving eve adds to the sadness of it."

Police are offering a $5,000 reward to anyone with information that leads to an arrest in the Delray Beach case, in addition to a $1,000 reward offered by Crime Stoppers.

"Somebody knows who did this," Messer said. "The community is at risk with these guys out there."

Investigators ask anyone with information in the Delray Beach case to call the Police Department at 561-243-7800 or Crime Stoppers at 800-458-TIPS (8477). Anyone with information about the Tamarac case should call Broward Crime Stoppers at 954-493-TIPS (8477).

Staff writer Sofia Santana contributed to this story.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2008, 03:18 PM
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If the bad guys already have the drop on you with a shotgun, you are pretty much screwed, regardless of if you're carrying or not.
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Old 12-01-2008, 04:17 PM
TwoGunsStanding TwoGunsStanding is offline
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Brazen is right! There could have been countless plainclothes & off duty cops milling in a doughnut shop......
  #5  
Old 12-01-2008, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by robotoid:
If the bad guys already have the drop on you with a shotgun, you are pretty much screwed, regardless of if you're carrying or not.
BUT... if you were in the store also... you may be able to get the drop on him while he was focusing on another customer.
Also... if I see a guy coming into a donut shop with a shot gun, he may not get the chance to use it.
When I enter a store I am constantly scanning it... and watching the entrances.
Maybe its from working in "the wrong" neighborhoods too often.


Jim
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Old 12-01-2008, 05:27 PM
flop-shank flop-shank is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by robotoid:
If the bad guys already have the drop on you with a shotgun, you are pretty much screwed, regardless of if you're carrying or not.
Yep, but if they walk in and shoot an innocent bystander for no good reason, that's our cue to start slingin' lead!!!! I hope those asscoyotes get what they have coming!!!!
  #7  
Old 12-01-2008, 06:39 PM
GatorFarmer GatorFarmer is offline
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If you're a particularly paranoid *** like I am, and take the time to wear your vest, you'll only end up with bruises and a need to buy a new shirt after a shotgun blast to the back. Otherwise, yeah, you're pretty screwed if someone walks in shooting.
  #8  
Old 12-01-2008, 08:07 PM
flop-shank flop-shank is offline
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I'll guess that a 12 ga. shotgun might cause serious injury even if the vest stops it.
  #9  
Old 12-01-2008, 09:19 PM
bigt5150 bigt5150 is offline
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We must all be vigilant at all times. Just carrying is not enough. I feel bad for the victims and sure hope those *******'s get what's coming to them.
  #10  
Old 12-02-2008, 12:18 AM
GatorFarmer GatorFarmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by flop-shank:
I'll guess that a 12 ga. shotgun might cause serious injury even if the vest stops it.
Buck and birdshot doesn't usually. Slugs might break a rib. If a vest is rated to stop it, the blunt trauma injuries have to be within a suitable range or it can't be certified. IIIA will stop standard deer slugs, I'm not sure about sabot rounds.

Not that I suggest trying the practice.

Jewelers and owners of independent stop and robs have used armor for years because someone would occaisionally try the "shoot first" method of robbery. I forget the details, but there was an attempted robbery of a coin shop in Lansing some years ago where two or three guys with shotguns tried that tactic, led to a nice shootout. I remember talking to one of the responding officers. It seems like one of the robbers got it coming back up the stairs.
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:51 AM
flop-shank flop-shank is offline
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I'd think body armor would require hard plates to prevent serious blunt trauma injury with the Winchester 2 3/4" Foster slugs I use in my Ithaca 87 Deerslayer. When I shot Perma-Gel the homemade table the P-G was sitting on got damaged seriously by the violence of the Gel's expansion. We're talking split 2"x4"s and sheared drywall screws. I could see 12 ga. slugs fracturing a spine with a direct hit with soft body armor. I don't know a lot about body armor, but the IBA (it was without hard plates) I was issued during my last hitch in the National Guard wouldn't cut it preventing serious blunt trauma from foster slugs. I'll agree that I'd still rather take the shot with a vest on though.
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:38 AM
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One of the tapes made by Rich Davis discusses a "save" of a cop shot with a slug.

The Second Chance vest wasn't rated for 12 gauge but it stopped the slug anyway.

The cop was injured due to blunt trauma but was able to get to cover, including getting over a fence, fire back and keep the crazed guy with the shotgun from shooting his wife and daughter. The guy eventually burned his house down around himself.

There's another save from a 20 gauge slug on the same tape.
  #13  
Old 12-02-2008, 08:30 AM
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"A reason to carry" was the original title and I found the story to be one of the main reasons I do carry and why I'll be more diligent about "Carrying" each and every time I leave the house!!!

I "carried for a living" for about 12 years of my life. I have pretty much "carried to live" ever since. But, found time to time I've become more relaxed and didn't "always" carry. You know going to the Post Office or the run to pick-up a loosing Lottery Ticket, well, on Thursday morning I made one of those runs. For whatever reason, I tucked my G-27 in the sweat band of my 'Sweats'. One of those "Just for the Hell of it" kind of things. I made my stop at the 7-11 (aka:Stop & Rob) where I like to purchase my loosing Lottery Tickets and found out that that very morning very early 'they' had been robbed and the Clerk was badly beaten - at that time he was still in ICU. They do have a very good digital video security system and talking to the Clerk/Owner I found out that the Police had a pretty good ID on the *** Hole and that the video clearly shows that the Clerk did everything he was "told" to do.

Of course, 7-11 is one of those places that doesn't allow their employees to carry "for their own Safety" of course. Good thing their Rule works so well!!!
  #14  
Old 12-02-2008, 08:45 AM
The Big D The Big D is offline
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Regardless of the CCW status this is more a reason to stay outta South Florida Dunkin' Donuts stores for a bit.

No, I am not making a joke outta this...

Be safe.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TwoGunsStanding:
Brazen is right! There could have been countless plainclothes & off duty cops milling in a doughnut shop......
They probably were at the other Dunkin Donuts.
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:50 PM
biggs357 biggs357 is offline
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Here is the reason i carry at home or stepping out the door.This happened along with 2 other shooting in less than 3 days and 2 blocks of where i live just before Thanksgiving.It's very sad that a year ago this town wasn't this bad.Since this neighborhood has gone to hell i've been looking for another place to live but until then i have to keep a very close eye and ear out for anything unusual.


HUNTINGTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- Gunfire is a problem that has become all too common in East Huntington.

NewsChannel 3 has the latest of the shots heard around a community and what they mean to one lady who survived a drive-by shooting Sunday night.

"I was sitting in a chair there and heard a bunch of gunshots," said Huntington resident Tim Zirkle. "I heard the same thing a couple nights ago."

Zirkle lives two doors down from where several gunshots hit his neighbor's home Sunday night and injured a woman inside. Police said Melanie Hadden was shot in the hand.

"It about gives you a heart attack," Zirkle said. "That's why I sleep with a gun by my bed."

Earlier in the evening, police said someone shot Thomas Redding and Jerel Scott at a home along Minton Street. The person or persons responsible in both shootings are still on the run.

Police said the shootings are usually drug related in a part of town where officers are trying to curb violence and crime. In the meantime, residents said they will remain on guard.

Officers said they are still investigating the shooting.

Original story
HUNTINGTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- A woman was shot on the east end of Huntington on Sunday evening. Several shots were fired into her home. It happened just before 10 o'clock Sunday night on 9th Avenue and 25th Street.

This is the second shooting in Huntington Sunday. The first one happened just after 8pm in a neighbor near Cabell Huntington Hospital. No arrests have been made in that shooting but one man was taken to the hospital with a gun shot wound to his abdomen.
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:55 PM
Mediumbore Mediumbore is offline
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I've seen tests of a 12 gauge against IIA armor. The slug cut through. All the buck pellets were stopped but the front panel stretched inward approximately 2-3 inches. Looked pretty debilitating even without the penetration.

I can appreciate everyone's desire to talk through scenarios, but I think one defender against multiple armed offenders who come in shooting is pretty well screwed.

Just my pair of pennies.

Matt
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:18 PM
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Sorry to read the piece about Huntington WV. It was a nice place when I was assigned there in the 80's. Economy was slowing down then though, just like is is now.

rayb
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:39 AM
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Deck the Halls! It's robbery season!
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