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  #1  
Old 09-06-2009, 03:36 AM
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Default FBI canted holsters....

I have several Galco holsters that have what they call the FBI cant.......I am actually not too fond of this but was not familiar enough with it to know better when I ordered the holsters. Does anyone know why on earth anyone would want the holster tilted forward this much? The only thing I can come up with is that if someone is sitting down, it makes the holster straight. I am guessing that they presume this would make the draw much easier if a person was in a vehicle or sitting down. Any other information anyone has on this? Just kinda curious here. Does anyone that has these kinda holsters like or dislike them?
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Old 09-06-2009, 04:15 AM
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Read something about this years ago. In the ?50s?, the FBI studied the 'best' way to carry and contrasted/compared the relative merits of cross-draw, shoulder holster, etc. types of carry. They decided that behind the right hip was the fastest draw with the best concealment, etc. They came up with the FBI draw method, which involved a sort of squatting forward movement and decided the butt of the gun should be tilted X degrees forward (it's not that much) to aid in the faster purchase of a firing grip. It was combat de rigeour of that era. It has been proven to work pretty well - try a vertical holster behind the right hip for a while and you'll find the forward cant is quite helpful.

Caveat: Keep in mind, that there are probably others on here that can give you all the sordid details, and I probably don't even have the ALL of general ideas exactly right, but this was the gist of it, to the best of my memory (which is not what it used to be).
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Old 09-06-2009, 04:24 AM
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Thank you very much Sir.....What you're saying does make sense, and I have gotten quite fast with my draw strokes out of these holsters, but just never had any idea why the FBI preferred this method.
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Old 09-06-2009, 08:43 AM
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A good forward cant keeps the gun butt against one's side while bending, stooping, ect., thus printing is minimized. I wish my Sparks VM-II (5" 629) had about five degrees more cant.
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:00 AM
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Being one of the geezers here, the forward tilt of the holster allows a more natural arm movement during the draw stroke. The first holster I'm aware of that featured this design was the creation of one Tom Threepersons long before WWII and probably produced by El Paso Saddlery. This holster rode lower than many concealment type holsters.

I expect the "FBI cant" was a marketing ploy after the FBI adopted a higher ride version of the same holster. If the Feebs use it, it must be the best, right? Besides, who outside Texas/Oklahoma ever heard of Tom Threepersons? Tucking the gun behind the hip near the kidney provides excellent concealment. Don't know about the 1950's, the Bureau recruited some real world gun fighters during the 1930's.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
Being one of the geezers here, the forward tilt of the holster allows a more natural arm movement during the draw stroke. The first holster I'm aware of that featured this design was the creation of one Tom Threepersons long before WWII and probably produced by El Paso Saddlery. This holster rode lower than many concealment type holsters.

I expect the "FBI cant" was a marketing ploy after the FBI adopted a higher ride version of the same holster. If the Feebs use it, it must be the best, right? Besides, who outside Texas/Oklahoma ever heard of Tom Threepersons? Tucking the gun behind the hip near the kidney provides excellent concealment. Don't know about the 1950's, the Bureau recruited some real world gun fighters during the 1930's.

Actually, the primary reason for the so-called FBI can (15 degrees butt forward) is to reduce the profile of the handgun for best concealment. This was determined based upon the revolvers in use back in the day.

This cant still works well with most revolvers, as the angle of the grip frame is such that a solid grip can be achieved during the draw. With many semi-auto pistols this is not the case. The grip frame angle of most semi-autos is such that when carried in the 15-degree butt forward cant the user's wrist must be rotated nearly to the limit in order to grasp the handgun grip. The more one rotates the wrist, the less grip strength one has.

For most users of semi-auto handguns in strong-side holsters I recommend a butt-forward cant of 5 to 10 degrees. This allows a proper shooting grip to be achieved during the draw, and permits a grip at full strength. Keeping the grip pulled into the body is accomplished by enclosing the trigger guard and designing the belt attachments in such a way that the belt applies tension to the holster to pull the grip frame firmly into the body.

With cant at 15 degrees it is relatively easy for someone to dislodge the firearm from your hand during the draw.

Tom Threepersons? Lots of folks have heard of him outside Texas and Oklahoma! I make Threepersons-style holsters and ship them all over the place! By the way, Mr. Threepersons' original holster was made by S.D. Myres Saddlery, another fine old company.

Last edited by LoboGunLeather; 09-06-2009 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 09-06-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
Being one of the geezers here, the forward tilt of the holster allows a more natural arm movement during the draw stroke. The first holster I'm aware of that featured this design was the creation of one Tom Threepersons long before WWII and probably produced by El Paso Saddlery. This holster rode lower than many concealment type holsters.

I expect the "FBI cant" was a marketing ploy after the FBI adopted a higher ride version of the same holster. If the Feebs use it, it must be the best, right? Besides, who outside Texas/Oklahoma ever heard of Tom Threepersons? Tucking the gun behind the hip near the kidney provides excellent concealment. Don't know about the 1950's, the Bureau recruited some real world gun fighters during the 1930's.
Tom Threepersons was a Texas lawman with a quite interesting history. The story is he designed the holster named for him and made a pattern for it using a piece of sheet metal, reportedly a flattened can. He took the pattern to Sam D. Myers, "Tio Sam", of S.D. Myers Saddlery in El Paso. El Paso Saddlery is the successor company to S.D. Myers. This occurred somewhere around 1916 as I recall.

If you Google Tom Threepersons there is a lot of information about him on the internet.
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Old 09-06-2009, 12:42 PM
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SD Meyers was the holster company I couldn't remember thanks. I never measured the cant on different holsters, assumed they were virtually the same for expediency of manufacture. The ones I've home built usually have somewhat more cant than factory.

I don't know what Safariland uses on the 528, but it does an outstanding job for me.

BTW, what was the Sloan welt? Long after the fact, I sorta got the impression it was an adjustable friction device for retention purposes, but the folks who advertised it (largely Bucheimer, IIRC) never bothered to explain just what it was.

Last edited by WR Moore; 09-06-2009 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 09-06-2009, 08:20 PM
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Smile Hume

For the last few years, I have been using Hume H721 OT holsters for revolvers, mostly N frame. These seem to be somewhat less than 15 degrees, more like 8 to 10. This cant seems to give me a comfortable draw using 2 to 4" barreled revolvers.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:05 PM
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Smile FBI Canted Holster

Hi:
The FBI designed and used this style holster for dress suits which was the type dress up until J. Edgar Hoover was no longer in charge.
The "Draw" was with the knees slighty bend and taking a step to the left.
This movement allowed the suit coat to swing open and the "Draw" was made. With the knees still slighty bent, the drawn revolver was brought to the center of the shooter's body, pointed, and fired.
This holster cant was used for uniform use, however was fairly easy for a suspect to gain control of the weapon when the suspect was being subdued.
The FBI holster did not use a holster retaining strap but the holster for uniforms did. I used a "Jordan" border patrol style for years using a revolver
but others favored the FBI type or a cross draw.
Jimmy
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:39 AM
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Thanks, Jimmy. I knew someone would be more familiar with this than I. Yea, it's all coming back to me now . . . bending and stepping to the left, helps open the coat.
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Old 09-08-2009, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbajoe45 View Post
Thanks, Jimmy. I knew someone would be more familiar with this than I. Yea, it's all coming back to me now . . . bending and stepping to the left, helps open the coat.
Just as Bill told us in 'No Second Place Winner'. )
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Old 09-08-2009, 04:23 PM
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Just as an interesting side note to the FBI cant, look at John Wayne's Westerns from about the mid 1950s on. You'll see he wears his SAA slightly back of his right hip and the holster hangs with what might be
called an FBI cant. I think he found it comfortable for a standing, in the saddle or sitting draw.
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Old 09-08-2009, 05:40 PM
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One of the reasons that Bill Jordan adopted the "FBI" cant on his holster design was to reduce the overall length of the holster in order to clear the seat in a vehicle. A straight drop holster would push up the entire holster and gun belt (also from his book).
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:54 AM
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Default Back in the Day

As the children say..

The Agents I knew all carried Sloan style holsters, slight foreward cant, no strap, but they did have a wrap around to protect your shirt. Never saw a guy without a coat, tie, and fedora with a little gold 707 Jet pin.

That was a Long time ago. 35 years at least.
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Old 10-11-2009, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danski View Post
Just as an interesting side note to the FBI cant, look at John Wayne's Westerns from about the mid 1950s on. You'll see he wears his SAA slightly back of his right hip and the holster hangs with what might be
called an FBI cant. I think he found it comfortable for a standing, in the saddle or sitting draw.
I think it was the best way he could hang his hand off of his gun ....LOL!!!
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