re:

quote:

If Greenspan hadn't artificially stimulated the economy by continually lowering the interest rates (in order to make his boss look good), the housing market wouldn't have taken such a dump in key areas of the country.

....so are you saying, that a government agency powerful enough to CAUSE a sustained yet artificial growth in those segments of the economy, is dumb enough to be confused over what to do next?

Doesn't the cyclic aspect of even FREE markets have a bearing on this kind of phenomena?

re: "their governments, oppressive as they are, actually believe that markets are self-regulating"

Are we to believe the oppressive govt's you mention are slick enough to benefit from 'free market' while the actual country that INVENTED this kind of consumer-driven economy is too dumb to have a clue?

quote:

Originally posted by tomhenry:
If Greenspan hadn't artificially stimulated the economy by continually lowering the interest rates (in order to make his boss look good), the housing market wouldn't have taken such a dump in key areas of the country.

What boss would that be since the Federal Reserve System's Board of Governors and its Chairman to act on their own with no prior approval from either Congress or the President?

quote:

Originally posted by m657:
re:

quote:

If Greenspan hadn't artificially stimulated the economy by continually lowering the interest rates (in order to make his boss look good), the housing market wouldn't have taken such a dump in key areas of the country.

....so are you saying, that a government agency powerful enough to CAUSE a sustained yet artificial growth in those segments of the economy, is dumb enough to be confused over what to do next?

Doesn't the cyclic aspect of even FREE markets have a bearing on this kind of phenomena?

re: "their governments, oppressive as they are, actually believe that markets are self-regulating"

Are we to believe the oppressive govt's you mention are slick enough to benefit from 'free market' while the actual country that INVENTED this kind of consumer-driven economy is too dumb to have a clue?

That's a pretty convuluted question.

Govt isn't dumb. But you're naive if you're suggesting they consciously operate in anybody else's (other than their own) long term interests.

They function in short term appeasement. That which will satisfy the voters, today.

The recent stimulus checks. You think govt honestly thought they were going to "stimulate" the economy?

Don't be stupid. The stimulus checks were pimps paying off the clientele in order to buy votes and favor.

They're not dumb. They're just dangerous.

quote:

Originally posted by sipowicz:
The government doesn't control everything....Dick Cheney Halliburton does.

Fixed it for ya'!

Whatever the question, government usually isn't the answer.

look, you dont need to "control" the economy when you can simply regulate and tax the hell out of it, all the while maintaining that we are a "free" country.

are we free if the government controls our education and our healthcare, regulates our jobs and our private financial actions, taxes us to death, and then takes half of our assets when we die?

i think the founding fathers envisioned a government of limited, specifically enumerated powers. we are so far beyond that now that talking about "constitutional" government is a joke.

so who is going to pay the bills George has made?

My take is greed and impatience are a huge factor. I was born in 41. In the area I grew up most familys lived in old smaller houses.
Somewhere along the line newly married couples wanted to start out with new houses that cost 5 times what our parents ever had after working a lifetime. Not only that, with inflation it worked! Most bought far over their heads, but wages climbed faster and they made out. It got to the point that people thought they could buy a house and make a $100,000 on it in two years. Had to end somewhere. People, my own kid included, bought $350,000 houses on the same wages I made when I sweated the payment on a $80,000 house. They lost it!
As far as gas goes, I understand a theory that most of it is due to speculators. It could just end up like silver did in the early eightys! I got stung big time on that one myself!
Collectively speaking, we want the best and we want it now! We dont want to break our ass,s at hard mondane work forever like our parents and grandparents did to get something.
Soon as we get a job and credit we think we deserve a $500,000 dollar house, BMW, harley, a
$200,000 motorhome, boat and a 4WD ton duely to pull it, or ya got no class!
I aint got any class.

Other examples of government control (good and bad), anti-trust legislation, SEC, and Congress in the eternal quest to control everything with a law, etc. Congress best handled by lobbyists !

As far as Halliburton what about KBR, but maybe Halliburton owns KBR now??
And as stated previously Cheney controls the boards, but simply taking them quail hunting!

Well, first the Fed is "independent within the government." It is neither a private nor public enterprise, but contains elements of both. It is a creature of the Congress (Federal Reserve Act) which provides oversight and may increase or decrease the Fed's power through legislation. One might say that the Congress aids and abets the criminally insane - oh, whoops, I meant the Fed. The President of the US appoints the members of the Board of Governors and from them, selects the President of the Board. Those appointments are subject to Senate approval. Other than that, they are pretty much independent of government control. The Fed is kinda like the USPS - sorta, but not quite.

Their primary function is to provide an elastic currency. You know, stretches like a rubber band? Sorta. Well, okay, it means they can expand or contract the money supply. They've expanded the money supply so much that our dollar has lost 40% of its value since 2002. That causes inflation, in case you didn't know. That's one of the reasons gasoline and Smith & Wessons cost so damn much. It also causes an increase in debt.

Being able to expand the money supply also enables our government to fight Big Ass, Protracted Wars (BAPW). Kinda cool, huh? I mean, like, where the hell else are they gonna get the dinero? They've already taxed the shit outta us. So, lets create a Big Ass Central Bank (BACB) give it the power to print worthless money (fiat money) that we borrow so that we can buy Bullets and Beans and Coffins. Yippie!!!!

Okay, okay, so war ain't that much fun. Been there, done that. Unless you get to kill lots of the enemy without being killed yourself. Then its a real hoot! Sorry, got carried away there for a moment. Where was I? Oh, yeah, talking about interest. I was wasn't I?

Secondly, the Fed controls the interest rates. Wow! Remember as we waited with bated breath, the decision of the Fed to lower interest rates? Remember how stupidly happy we were? The lower the interest rates, the more willing we are to buy Totally Useless Redundant Dumb
Shit (TURDS) with borrowed money. You know, TURDS. Like, $350,000 homes, $150,000 SUVs. Stuff like that. And, since we're buying it with devalued money (elastic currency, fiat money - remember those two?), the prices keep going up and up and up and...well, you get the idea.

I don't want to do this, this pisses me off. I think I'll go count my gold coins. Maybe pick some peaches. I'll come back to it later, after I've cooled off.

1/4 Cherokee, you sound like a Ron Paul fan!

Since 1945 the whole premise of our economy has been BUY BUY BUY.

It's no conspiracy against the US just because that ethic doesn't work anymore. Things change. DEAL WITH IT.

The government (or Jesus) will not save you. THINK FOR YOURSELF.

If you spend more than you earn, you're headed for big trouble!!! That principle applies, not only to today's youth....but, also the Federal Government!

If we did not follow that great leader, George Bush and Congress into another war in Iraq, after we had not finished in Afghanistan, we might have a better handle on things today!!! Afghanistan would no longer be a problem. Now look at what's happening.....a regrouped Taliban is stronger than ever!!!

I won't say... I told you so...... BEFORE we invaded IRAQ......but I did!!!!! I met with much resistace from you guys.

We are footing the bill for this stupid IRAQI War, but, I guess you don't mind much. The Radical Muslims now realize that .....they don't have to attack us....they just have to bleed us dry....economically!!!! We go along with them, by slowly cutting our own throats. (Economically, of course!!)

WE as a people, are overspending. WE as a nation, are overspending. Until WE decide to not let this trend continue.....we are doomed to live it out! We will be reduced to the same level ....as every other country in the world. We will no longer be a World leader. Bob

It's really going to hurt a lot of people's feelings when they have to send their phone/cable/mortgage payments to Shanghai/Bejing/Chunking.

All these Reaganites that swear by the free market are going to start squealing like baby pigs.... No offense!

quote:

Originally posted by ALJ-28:
so who is going to pay the bills George has made?

Hopefully the Federal Government will pay. I sure don't think the taxpayer should have to.

(actually heard something like this on talk radio)


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I'm not much on emoticons. I thought the statement that I heard something like this on talk radio would be the clue that I'm not so silly as to make such a statement, but there sure are those out there who are.

Which emoticon should I have used? This one?


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