OK,I whined about the recoil from the world's lightest .44Mag.DUH. And that was with a gel-padded bicycle glove. I have graduated to a "riveter's glove";only for practice...anyway,after 12 quick rounds,I'm still sore and recovering;but while dry-firing,after I closed the cylinder to check "all-clear",I pulled the trigger in double-action mode and met total resistance...no go. Re-opened and closed the cylinder then all was well. Just my 2 cent,unscientific word. DAMN,that 329 kicks!

I have a 640 that I use for personal protection. I bought it several years ago at quite a high price, but I felt it was worth it for S&W quality. I have never had an issue with the internal lock, and frankly, never worried about it until reading this thread. Has anyone ever had a problem with this particular model? And how likely is it that a gunsmith would be willing to disable the lock for me?

I'm thinking about buying a 610 w/ILS, but after reading this thread I'm having second thoughts. My dealer/gunsmith is trying to locate one and has agreed to remove the lock for me. What do you guys think I should do? I've never seen a pre-ILS 610 for sale here, so I don't think that's an option. Should I get the gun and have him remove it or just not get it? Has anyone found anything to plug the hole with? Can some one PM me instructions on how to remove the lock, should I decide to get it? Thanks

Greg.. if the gun is not for self defense or hunting dangerous animals, the lock won't be a potential threat to saving your life.

Otherwise, I'd say don't mess with removing the lock on a gun (opens "potential" cans of worms down the road). I would just look for a nice pre-lock... it will be well worth the extra effort required beyond a quick trip to the local dealer and placing an order. The internet is your good friend in this endeavor... just be a wise shopper. A good pre-lock will hold value at least what you paid for it and will be very marketable to others seeking pre-lock S&W's should you ever decide to sell it.

Greg, I would say your dealer is nuts to tamper with the gun. For one thing, unless it's put back together as manufactured, your lifetime service could be forfeited if it ever needed repair.

Pre-lock is a good idea if you feel like relying on falling sky possibilities of an ILIF. Most defensive gun uses do not involve firing the gun. Among this forum's 35,000 plus members there have been 19 documented ILIFs in about two and a half years. In the meantime, S&W manufactured over 500,000 revolvers with locks and no one's sued them that I've heard about for a lock failure. Repairs and replacements, yes, but those can happen for any number of reasons, some of which are failure inducing.

In a recent forum poll on the lock only 242 responded. Of those responding, more than half did not see the presence of the lock as an ultimate deal killer. I certainly don't, although I have S&Ws with and without the lock. No big deal.

What you have probably already found on the forum is that those who are against the lock are really against it to the point of implacability. So be it. More smoke than fire.

Thanks DHart & 5wire for the advice. My gunsmith felt it wasn't a big deal to remove it since it's only a lock & not a safety. The saying "If it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all" really applies to me, it'd be just my luck that I'd get one that would lock up at the worst possible moment. So I've decided to wait until I can get a pre-ILS model.

Greg... I think you made a sound decision, one you won't regret... and a better financial investment! While the chances are good that you *might* never suffer a lock related problem with a gun which has the lock, by buying a pre-lock, you will NEVER have to even wonder if a "lock-related" problem might cripple your gun AND you will have a gun that many see as both more marketable and better value-holding than guns with the lock.

It's amusing to me, that despite the "it's not an issue" crowd on this forum, lock equipped revolvers don't move in the classifieds here.

There are two, lock equipped PC L-comps, and one lock equipped 3" 66 that have not moved. Otherwise very desireable revolvers, reasonably priced, but featuring the zit.

One would think that the "it's not an issue" bunch would snap them up. Regards 18DAI.

Most Ford Pintos did not explode when rear ended but a fair number did. As a result none had a decent resale value.

quote:

Pre-lock is a good idea if you feel like relying on falling sky possibilities of an ILIF.

Bob, you're just more willing to walk on the ragged edge than I am. As DHart says: no lock, no lock crippling issues with the revolver.

quote:

Originally posted by bmcgilvray:

quote:

Pre-lock is a good idea if you feel like relying on falling sky possibilities of an ILIF.

Bob, you're just more willing to walk on the ragged edge than I am. As DHart says: no lock, no lock crippling issues with the revolver.

I think the difference is I don't see any ragged edge. I fully realize that the anti lock folks are never ever going to change their minds. I don't see that as my problem. I don't like the looks of the look, myself. But there have been far more serious issues with S&W revolvers than the zit.

Well, I had a failure!


Gun Make: S&W

Gun Model: 340 no dash

Age of Gun: Four years, 400 .357 and 1600 .38 special.

Options on Gun: Clip draw added

Description of ILIF: April 15th 2008. I was shooting Federal "Low Recoil" 135 gr .357 HydraShok at Red's indoor range. Third round caused the hammer not drop all the way forward. The flag had jumped half way up and kept the hammer from falling forward. Cocking the hammer caused the flag to drop. The flag pops up pretty easily now, I think the spring is broken.

As an aside the Federal Low Recoil is anything but, it is some of the hottest and hardest recoiling ammo I have ever shot. I get primer flow it is so hot. I wonder if Federal knows this. I was shooting another box to see if I had a bad lot before contacting them.

Confirmation: I can see the flag, and replicate the problem by turning the gun upside down and the flag falls clear. It does not always go forward.

Corrective Action: Cocked the hammer, the flag fell unblocking the hammer and allowing normal operation.

Manufacture Contacted?: Not yet, I have not had the time. I am on the fence, I want them to see a confirmed lock failure, but I also want to disable the damn thing as this is one of my carry guns. I already locktited my 340PD.

This makes me fairly grumpy. I knew about the problem and glued most of my locks already, I now realize I forgot to do it to this one. I feel really stupid. I have carried this gun for years, and shot it a lot. I can't carry it until this is resolved.

quote:

Originally posted by 5Wire:

quote:

Originally posted by bmcgilvray:

quote:

Pre-lock is a good idea if you feel like relying on falling sky possibilities of an ILIF.

Bob, you're just more willing to walk on the ragged edge than I am. As DHart says: no lock, no lock crippling issues with the revolver.

I think the difference is I don't see any ragged edge. I fully realize that the anti lock folks are never ever going to change their minds. I don't see that as my problem. I don't like the looks of the look, myself. But there have been far more serious issues with S&W revolvers than the zit.

Exactly! As a mechanical device, there are plenty of other things that can go wrong with a gun during a defense encounter (bad ammo, backed out primer, bullet creep forward in case, broken hand, etc.), so WHY allow the existence of yet another, additional, YET COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE potential point of failure (the LOCK with another spring, flag, etc.)?

Primers can fail, bullets can creep forward, hands can break, yada yada, but the point is you MUST have primers for the gun to function; you MUST have bullets for the gun to function, you MUST have a hand for the cylinder to turn, but you DON'T have to have a lock in the the gun!

In my view, there is no acceptable justification for introducing an unnecessary potential point of failure (the lock) to a mechanism you will rely on for defending your life under the most dire of circumstances when it isn't needed for the gun to function. All it does is create an additional potential problem for you to worry about and possibly suffer from.

And if you don't see the loss of marketability and value which applies to S&W's WITH locks, vs. nice pre-lock S&W's, try selling one with a lock around anyone who has any knowledge on the subject... as pointed out earlier here, the guns with locks in the For Sale section of this forum aren't desired by people... lower marketability, lower value. The lock therefore reduces reliability, reduces marketability, reduces value as compared to a pre-lock. It's quite clear that going with a good pre-lock makes a lot more sense than buying one with a lock.

quote:

Originally posted by DHart:...And if you don't see the loss of marketability and value which applies to S&W's WITH locks, vs. nice pre-lock S&W's, try selling one with a lock around anyone who has any knowledge on the subject... as pointed out earlier here, the guns with locks in the For Sale section of this forum aren't desired by people... lower marketability, lower value. The lock therefore reduces reliability, reduces marketability, reduces value as compared to a pre-lock. It's quite clear that going with a good pre-lock makes a lot more sense than buying one with a lock.

Yup, I would probably post on the forum but I realize that there are so many (about half) that see the lock as a deal killer that I would post elsewhere, too. But, please, tell me, how long did how many have to wait to sell what IL guns on the forum. Got facts?

If I were to sell one of my IL revolvers, I don't think I'd have too long to wait to get my price. Neither does S&W, their sales are pretty good even with the lock.

I'm not trying to change your mind, DHart, or anyone else's. As a matter of fact, I feel really stupid for even getting into this discussion again. I'll be glad if/when S&W finds another solution to the lock placement or eliminates the lock, then we can leave this controversy behind.

Sorry about your ILIF, CombatController. Now it's 20 ILIFs reported among 34545 members.

For the record, I carry a 642-1 (no lock), HD is a 686-5 Mountain Gun (no lock) or a Remington 870 (no lock).

5wire... no biggie... no doubt, there are plenty of people who would be willing to buy a S&W with lock... but I think a pre-lock would be a much quicker sell overall. Glad to know that the guns you rely on for defense are sans-lock. My best to you.