NEVER use THE KEY!!! (And why the hell would you!?)
c

after reading all the horror stories , i figured i better check my nib 638 , it would lock , but the keys were so soft that they would distort rather than unlock the gun...
if i hadn't had the keys from my 442 the gun would still be useless...
the local S&W dealer won't sell spare keys 'cause we don't want to be encouragin' the criminals'...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: redeux,

Wouldn't it be prudent to put a sticky link in the modern revolvers folder of this forum to make sure all who visit there are made aware of this thread and the potential problems with broken springs, lockups during recoil, soft keys, etc.?

quote:

Originally posted by DHart:
Wouldn't it be prudent to put a sticky link in the modern revolvers folder of this forum to make sure all who visit there are made aware of this thread and the potential problems with broken springs, lockups during recoil, soft keys, etc.?

I believe it was posted there first and then here as well. In a short period of time, however, the thread lost its original purpose of documenting ILIFs and became a series of posts on how evil the lock is: 16 pages of posts vs. 20 or 21 documented ILIFs since October 2005. With that imbalance in mind, the Lounge is the right place for the thread.

On the other hand, if anti lock evangelists could have refrained from describing how they will never, no, nay, never buy a S&W with an IL no matter what along with all the multitudinous reasons why that is the only sensible, rational opinion that any sane person could possibly have, I'll bet the 1945 to Present section might still be appropriate.

Parabellum has hinted that S&W may actually be listening to the anti lock stuff (a birdy told him, he posts) and might be doing something about changing it, to what, I have no idea.

Whatever it is I hope it happens soon so we can proceed to whatever the next major maladjustment is S&W has thoughtlessly included its firearms.

Since when is personal opinion on Revolvers 1945 to the Present not allowed in the 1945 to the Present folder?

Clinical documentation AND personal opinion on this particular hardware issue are equally valid, just as the two are valid whether we're discussing barrel sleeves, MIM, whatever.

"The Lounge" is the dumping ground for odd and random topics like Elvis sightings and whatnot and not nearly as appropriate place for such an important discussion as experiences and viewpoints on a vital revolver component and the ramifications thereof.

This issue is directly related and very important to Revolvers 1945 to the Present. It's not my place to implement locations such as this thread as it's not my forum, but this is my view and I'm sticking to it.

quote:

Originally posted by DHart:
Since when is personal opinion on Revolvers 1945 to the Present not allowed in the 1945 to the Present folder?

DHART, of course opinion is allowed but here's what Osprey posted when the IL thread was begun (italic emphasis mine):

quote:

With all the discussion about integral gun locks causing gun failures (lockups, jams, etc.) and the lack of credible cases to study, I've decided to use my Super Administrator Powers to float a topic that will allow individuals who have personally suffered an Integral Lock Induced Failure (ILIF) to post a detailed account of their ordeal. Others may post questions specifically addressed to the individual who have experienced the ILIF, but once answered, I will delete the post with the question and maybe edit the answer into the post with original ILIF account. The idea here is to create a place where there is basically one ILIF for every post entered.
...
Again, I want to keep this post free of unnecessary cross talk. If I find anything other then ILIF case posts in here, I will probably delete those posts; consider this forewarning.
...
(then on May 2, 2008 in response to an actual set of facts)...For everyone else, I believe this is the first properly documented ILIF since November '07.

Obviously, Osprey's intent has been largely and disrespectfully ignored. Moreover, there are absolute scads of anti lock posts on the 1945 to the Present forum as well as on the Lounge Forum, so you can relax on that concern. A 1945 to the Present search on "lock" or "ILIF" produced 136 pages of results. Most of these in the last 12 months, although the ILIF thread has been up for about 2 1/2 years.

It's the ILIF thread that was abused with opinions instead of documented ILIFs. Of course personal opinions are valid but as opinions only, not as documented ILIF data would be and not as specified by the thread's initial post. Read here.

Osprey gave up trying to separate data from opinion. Gov posted a Summary at the end of February 2008. He may have since tired of the effort as well.

When Osprey bailed, he posted he would leave the thread to be whatever it turned out to be. It's now an unrelenting anti lock opinion thread interspersed with occasional facts. It is properly placed in the Lounge, in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by 5Wire:
Osprey gave up trying to separate data from opinion. Gov posted a Summary at the end of February 2008. He may have since tired of the effort as well.

I haven't given up There just havent been any new failures posted here in 6 pages.

quote:

Originally posted by Gov:
I haven't given up There just havent been any new failures posted here in 6 pages.

Well, at least you can keep up with the data. I wonder how many different posters are involved but I'm way too lazy to do the parsing.

I've seen enough to convince me that failures of these internal locks is a real issue, and to vow to avoid buying any S&W revolvers that have the lock.
We've had comments from some most reputable people- Michael Bane, and gunsmith Randy Lee from Apex Tactical, to name a couple. We've heard from reputable members of this forum, whose word I trust, and we've from sources outside of this forum as well, the last of which included photos of the locked up revolver.

More stories of lock failures aren't going to convince me any further, because I'm already convinced. If what has been posted in this thread about lock failures isn't enough for a person, what's one or two, or even three more stories going to do to convince them?

AFAIC, the conversation can continue as it is, to keep the subject alive and in the forefront of the minds of concerned members and guests, and to let S&W know that those who are opposed to this obscenity now plaguing new S&W revolvers have a platform from which to be heard. The owner of this forum is making sure of that.

parabellum - Can you share anything more about the prospects of future lock free revolvers from S&W ? Thank you. Regards 18DAI.

quote:

Originally posted by 18DAI:
parabellum - Can you share anything more about the prospects of future lock free revolvers from S&W ? Thank you. Regards 18DAI.

No, nothing further.

All--

I spent a long time trying to join this forum so I could learn from the experts, hereon. My goal was to learn enough to decide which .500 PC revolver would suit me best, first.

When I was finally allowed to join, I immediately discovered (within a few days, anyway) that not only do the S&W revolvers have locks (I knew that much), but they MALFUNCTION.

One of my goals was a firearm I could carry in black bear country. They are not big, but if one comes for me, I want a chance. I'll stick with my .50AE, but buy a shorter barrel.

I'll also stick with this forum.

--seal killer

quote:

Originally posted by...




That looks like too much metal for a Dremel. I am going to use a bench rinder on mine and when I get 99% of the metal remover I'll go to the Dremel. A word of caution, goimg too fast may case the metal to heat up and heating can change the temper of the metal.

I was reading an article while searching on the ILF and found this at gunblast.com:

"If it really bothers you knowing that it is there, it can be easily removed in about five minutes without altering anything in the weapon, and re-installed later if desired. Just remove the side plate and the hammer, and pluck it out. Personally, I do not use the lock, but it bothers me not at all being there."

Article found here: http://www.gunblast.com/SW625Mountain.htm

So is that true? Is it really that easy to remove or do you have to grind off that nub like in the pictures above?

If it's really as easy to remove as the guy in the article eludes to then I'm ready to go buy a S&W scandium and have at it.

The reason why some people are not happy with simply removing the locking flag is that doing such on most revolvers creates a slot into which lint and crud will accumulate.

Welcome to the Forum.

So basically it's fairly easy to remove, but the downside is a hole that crud might get into.

Anyone have a plug for that hole, or an idea for one?