quote:

Originally posted by vito:
My local gunstore clerk stated that sales in the last year or two of all handguns have been breaking all records.

Your gun store clerk is an idiot. Sales, and the stocks, of all gun manufacturers tanked the last half of 2007 and surplus inventories are still at record levels. That's why you've been seeing so many promotions in an attempt to reduce the overstock.

Same applies to motorcycles, boats, RVs, etc. BTW. And none of them have as IL either.

Bob

My 9MM M&P which I got just a couple of months ago DOES NOT have a lock on it. In fact the hole where a lock would be has been plugged. Does kinda make one wonder.

quote:

Originally posted by Massad Ayoob:
Just a suggestion, but...

Anyone even remotely thinking about disabling one of these locks would do well to take Osprey's advice, download this whole thread, and keep it where they can access it including hardcopy.

If the defensive use of a gun with its lock removed or disabled is ever thrown at you by an opposing attorney as an indication of reckless and negligent behavior, it would be MOST helpful to be able to show believable accounts of the lock failing, giving you reason to do so.

Just another guy's $0.02.

An even better solution than removing the lock is to buy the new 642 that S&W just reintroduced WITHOUT the internal Lock. RSR has them now (8-3-2008) and I believe that 2,000 were ordered. As of today, RSR still has about 1,140 left. SKU is 103810.

Apparently S&W will build revolvers without locks if the distributors order them. I have no idea if there are conditions, such as the distributor agreeing to indemnify in case of suit, but the dealer price seems to be the same as the 642 and 442 with internal lock. I suppose it should be lower due to less parts and machining, but I am just happy to not have the locks.

I just had something I'm not sure but COULD be due to IL mechanism.

625-8 45acp moderate loads about 2000 moderate range cast 230s down the barrel with massive leading, was making the last run to send to factory for barrel issue.

On the very LAST shot, the action locked up and the hammer could not be budged. Turning upside down, there was a slight metallic tinkling sound as if something were rattling around. Can not pull trigger or cock hammer.

Sent to S&W last week with notes.

I haven't had a failure with my 642, but I e-mailed S&W customer service and asked them about the numerous reports of failures because of the internal locks.

I got a reply 3 days later, saying they have never heard of any failures involving internal locks. W.T.F.??????

I saved the e-mail. I was going to have my gunsmith disable it, but that would void the warranty. Any comments?

quote:

Originally posted by Pioneer461:
I haven't had a failure with my 642, but I e-mailed S&W customer service and asked them about the numerous reports of failures because of the internal locks.

I got a reply 3 days later, saying they have never heard of any failures involving internal locks. W.T.F.??????

I saved the e-mail. I was going to have my gunsmith disable it, but that would void the warranty. Any comments?

Pioneer... there are great pre-lock S&W's for sale all over the place... I'd just let that one go and buy a pre-lock... then you'll never have to even think about it. If you must keep that one, just yank the lock and void the warranty, why not? Better, though, to just side step the entire issue by getting a pre-lock.

Funny... we've heard this same story before about what S&W says from others... amazing isn't it? Don't trust a word of what they tell you.

So today I decided to completely strip the insides of my 629. Clean it all nice and spotless.

You know what happened? That danged flag thingy fell out and I didn't notice it. Oooops. Dang, now I can't get it back in.

Oh well, took the gun to the range and it shoots just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Pioneer461:
I haven't had a failure with my 642, but I e-mailed S&W customer service and asked them about the numerous reports of failures because of the internal locks.

I got a reply 3 days later, saying they have never heard of any failures involving internal locks. W.T.F.??????

That is a flat-out lie. Shame on them. The least they could do is address these issues in an honest fashion. But, apparently they feel if they acknowledge the known failures of the IL, it opens a Pandora's Box for them. That's corporate America these days, run by lawyers and empty suits, fueled only by self-serving interests. To hell with the truth, eh, guys? Screw the customer. They'll take whatever Smith gives them and they'll like it.

Pioneer - who is the S&W Representative that sent you that email?

The e-mail from smith is on my home computer, and I'm at work right now. I'll look it up when I get home.

I've been a loyal S&W fan since 1970, and I sort of feel betrayed. I think I will pull the lock and to hell with the warranty.

quote:

Originally posted by VM:
Pioneer - who is the S&W Representative that sent you that email?

The name on the e-mail is; Mark Rossini.

This is what he wrote; "ron- it has not been an issue i think you will be fine thank you"

I saw an instance at a local range where a police officer had been carrying a brand new 442 as a "backup" gun for a couple months. He was at the range, so he decided he should try to shoot the thing. Wouldn't you know it, the lock was engaged all that time. No one would have known if he didn't come in asking why his gun was broken.

Thanks Pioneer461

"Not been an issue", I guess it takes a few more failures for it to become an issue?

Just pull the lock out of there Pioneer. Put it back in if you ever need warranty work.

That's my plan.

I can't stress how disappointed I am in S&W. I'm trying to keep an eye on Tom Gresham's Gun Talk radio show. He sometimes has gun maker CEO's, etc. on his show and I intend to give him an ear-full.