Here is another failure, the lady in question had this happen fairly recently and she gave me permission to repost it here.This is one that got sent back to the factory even.

"It was my 627 Performance Center. I had actually just gotten it back from S&W service. They had just replaced the frame. I shot 10 rounds and it locked up. I am pretty sure that I was shooting 158 grain magnum loads. I cannot remember the brand, but it was a factory load. One of the guys at the range fiddled with the key and was able to unstick it eventually. Honestly, I think that it was not in the fully unlocked position when it came back from S&W, and I did not check it before shooting. My mistake, but it was enough to make me not trust it. "

So, who wants to run up a tally on the results? How many failures on which guns, etc. It would be greatly appreciated!

60-14, new, locked up when rapid firing just about every time I took it to the range.

Send all lock revolvers back to Smith for repair, flood them with lock revolvers, and maybe they'll stop producing them

Pre-Lock only revolvers for now on.

I found this thread after trying to get some "hard" evidence of these failures researching for a M&P340 purchase. Until now I had only heard of problems with the X frames. I own an M&P45 and a SW1911. The M&P has been good, though I had to send it back to the factory for re-meloniting the slide after the slide started rusting after carrying it one day. The 1911 had a problem with the firing pin safety not getting disengaged fully, (a potentially deadly problem very similar to the ILIF as it's an added, unnecessary system alien to JMB's design) which I corrected.
I wanted to get at 340 as a gift for my pop, but after reading all this, I might just wait to see if S&W are going to come out with one. The lock-less 642s have flown off dealers' shelves, maybe Smith is getting a glimpse of the big picture.
If the ILS is so necessary, why are they toying with, even coming to market with, the idea of getting rid of it?
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/P...rn=15704&isFirearm=Y

After reading all the failures and lots of thought. I decided to Dr. up my 642-2.I removed my lock and then tapped the holes, inserted hex head set screws and ground them down. I polished the gun and Two Gun Jay from this board reassembled it for me. I then polished it again and add some grips from my friend also on this board N Frame.
I have since put 200 rounds down range and "no problems."
Here are a couple pics

I would say fairly low, but still why risk it? The fix is easy. You can epoxy, remove, modify, grand tabs off, whatever appeals.

Personally, I was leery BEFORE mine failed.

Had the chance to get together with a bunch of armorers recently, many of whom were also firearms instructors (they don't always overlap, you know). Bunch of J-frame owners/users.

Nobody had any horror stories of unintentional ILS engagement, nor did anyone really seem distraught over the presence of the ILS in their newer production revolvers. One fellow claimed to have run several hundred Magnum rounds through a .357 Magnum Airweight without issue, too. (One of the few folks I've met who actually claimed to enjoy shooting Magnum ammunition in those lightweight J-frames that pack a mule's kick. )

I'm still glad I bought that spare 642-1, though, and I'm still kicking around the idea of picking up a nickeled M40, too. Dunno what I'd do with a 6th J-frame, but I imagine I'd find a use for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fastbolt:
Nobody had any horror stories of unintentional ILS engagement, nor did anyone really seem distraught over the presence of the ILS in their newer production revolvers.

This is no reason to presume one won't experience the problem personally with an ILS equipped gun. Their experience is no assurance nor guarantee. One can take a gambler's mentality or....

... if your gun has NO internal lock mechanism, you are GUARANTEED not to have an internal lock jam!

What's the point of taking a gamble on the ILS mechanism where you never know if it will jam or not when it's so easy to simply side step the issue entirely (no ILS mechanism) and blissfully go forth in life without ever having to even wonder if the ILS will jam? This is such a no brainer!

Purcased a 329PD and when firing for first time I got a ILF. We had shot about 12 Remington magnum rounds through it and I was shooting some 900fps reloads to get it sighted in when trying to cock the revolver the hammer only went back half way. I couldn't get it to go fully cocked manually or with the trigger. I was able to open the cylinder and unload the revolver. I noticed the flag was a ways up and I hadn't brought the key with me. I pushed down on the flag and was able to lower the hammer. Didn't have any other instances at that session. We shot about 50 to 60 round trough it without further problem.

I know the side plate had be taken off since the screws have been boogered a bit. Don't know anything else about the gun's history, round count, etc.

I do know the lock flag will be seeing my dremel tool soon.

John

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I am convinced to absolutely keep my older Smith's and seek out other older ones, without locks, to fill in any gaps. Unfortunately a guy really wanted to buy my 2" model 60 with adjustable sights, and his check is on the way, so I will go through with the sale because I believe that is the ethical thing to do. I will no doubt find plenty on this board to tempt me.
Lynn

I decided the way to go on my 329pd was to just remove the flag so that I could replace it in the future if necessary. I would have just cut the tab off if you could get a replacement from Smith but since that isn't possible, I would rather not disable the safety where is wasn't noticable in case someone get the gun in the future and I wasn't able to pass along the info.

John

I would like to share a failure of another kind....operator failure. I just discovered my 642 carry gun has been locked for the last two weeks. Two weeks ago we went out to dinner to a restaurant that serves alcohol and I had to leave my gun in the car, so I locked the gun. Tonight I was going to do a bit of dry firing/laser practice and to my complete surprise discovered I never unlocked the gun! I have been out Mall shopping, banking, etc. and always take along my trusty S&W. Thinking of what could have happened if I really needed to use my gun is a scary thought! This time it wasn't the gun's fault. It's kind of embarrassing to admit it, but I thought it would make those who do lock their guns on occasion to ALWAYS remember to unlock it, and test it, before carrying.

On Friday Dec.5, I bought my third no-lock Smith from CDNN since the lock was introduced. It is a NIB M64. There are other guns I would buy if they didnt have a locking device. As it stands now, I have all the Smiths I intend to own. Untill the no-lock feature returns I wont even consider S&W.

Takes me about 5 minutes to remove the lock from a 642 and then you have one mean little pocket gun with a built in oil hole.

I have two revolvers with the ILS and after reading about this problem decided to look in the cases to find the key and see how the lock works. I had just ignored the lock as one of the guns is the DC vs. Haller that I don't plan to shoot and the other is a Thunder Ranch gun that I bought used from a friend. As it turned out neither gun had a key for the lock. The used gun is understandable but the new gun doesn't make sense. I called S&W and they are sending me two keys. Anyone else have this problem ?