quote:

Of course, then there is that kitchen drawer that won't open due to the also-unwanted trigger locks I've accumulated over the years, jamming it solidly shut.

I have started "accidentally" leaving my locks on the dealer's counter as I walk out of the store. The gesture is much appreciated, and gets me good deals from time to time....

quote:

Originally posted by Stainz:
It is interesting to note how many 'real' first hand personal ILIF's have been chronicled here, as Osprey's first listed reason for this thread's existence. The vast majority of the posts here have been hyperbole - opinions - posted by folks who, by their own admission, do not - and will not - own a modern S&W. Also of note, the very first 'failure', as others no doubt, was gravity-induced. We are not supposed to catch our fine instruments on the first bounce, although it happens. I really would like to hear of more first person 'failures'.

Of course, I am part of the problem with these nine pages of responses... this is my second post here. Since the original post, I have added another new 629 (4") and a 642 - both IL-equipped. Still, with my meager collection of mostly new IL-equipped revolvers, I have had no problems. And, my 642 is in my pocket most of the time... the IL keys are all in their respective boxes. Of course, then there is that kitchen drawer that won't open due to the also-unwanted trigger locks I've accumulated over the years, jamming it solidly shut.

Stainz

Do I have a "real, first hand experience" of a gun locking up on me? No - and I never plan on it, because I took DHart's suggestion, and just took my 442 to the store yesterday, and told them to sell that little sucker on consignment.

I may have been able to put thousands and thousands of rounds through that little sweetheart with narry a problem ... or, the Bad Guy could have been staring me down and it could have failed. Is it worth the risk? Is my life worth $400? (some days maybe not) hell yes it is! (well, actually maybe only the $100 - $150 difference in premium I'll have to pay for a pre-lock gun.)

After the 442 hopefully sells, they'll help me look for a replacement 442/642 - prelock, thank you!

Stainz... you should consider carrying one of those keys with you when you have one of your IL-guns... if your gun should lock up on you on it's own while shooting or if you inadvertantly drop it, if you have the key on you, you *might* be able to unlock it; that is if you're really lucky and time isn't against you.

Thank you for having this thread, and thanks to DHart for posting the link to it.

Gun Make: Taurus.

Gun Model: RAGING BULL. .480 Ruger

Age of Gun: NIB.

Options on Gun: None.

Description of ILIF: Gun locked up on the 3rd full cylinder; 2nd round / 12th shot.

Confirmation: I had to use the key to UN-lock the gun.

Corrective Action: SEE ABOVE Confirmation.

Manufacture Contacted?: NO. It wasn't my firearm, but I was the first person to shoot the gun after it left the factory. I do not know if the owner took further action.

What if the grand plan is to get us used to our guns locking up intermittently? Then increasing the frequency of lockups little by little until the guns stay locked all the time. By then everyone thinks it is normal for a gun to be always locked and not function at all.

The purpose of a gun is to be dangerous! It is up to the operator to decide what gets destroyed and when.

quote:

Originally posted by GLV:
It sure is funny --that so many of the people who have lock problems have played with the lock!!

I have three or four of the lock guns, and have never turned a key and thru thousands of rounds, have never had a problem.

Yes, but it has happened to other guys. I believe them when they say it happened.

It's just plain unacceptable to have the lock go off inadvertantly IMHO. It ain't right!!

Remember, the CEO of S&W said he'd offer new guns without the locks to police departments. Now why would he do that? Something is amiss here IMHO.

I reading these post it's coincedently similar to the GM Corvette steering column lock failure. The steering column has a small servo that locks & unlocks the steering wheel when the ignition key is removed or inserted. I'ts supposed to unlock when the car is started allowing the wheel to turn. Unfortunately it sometimes decides NOT to unlock. Rendering the car undriveable. There have been several unsuccessful attempts by GM to resolve the problem. I believe seven recall campaigns (1997-2004 models) Several aftermarket mfgs. devised a "column lock simulator" circumventing the entire system. Perhaps someone will devise a S&W lock simulator.

quote:

Originally posted by vetteman:
Perhaps someone will devise a S&W lock simulator.

Good idea.

I don't like the locks, but live with them, because they were on models I wanted and were available in my area at the time.

I currently own a M-642, M-22 & M-325 & M-65 all with locks, all of which have fired close to or over 1,000 rds. each. And to this date I have had zero problems.

This in and off it's self is a miracle, because in my family the motto over my door reads, "If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all"

I feel sorry for the members who have had problems, and am glad that they have been recitfied by either repair or replacement with a no-lock model.

If my math is correct, I've read at least 16 reports from members whose guns have failed. I also believe that there are other failures out there that have not been reported.

Before continuing, I want to share what happened in the past at my agency.

In 1993 we switched to the Beretta 92FS. Of the 350 guns we owned, 8 of them (about 3%) had locking blocks break on the firing line during weapons qualifications which turned them into 36 oz. $500 clubs.

When I examined the locking blocks 100% of them had the left leg broken off. Close examination of the break revealed a grainy "baked potato" like texture indicating that the part was cast not forged.

When I complained to the Beretta factory, they sent me a box with 2 dozen new (forged) locking blocks. They never admited to a defect and we never had another problem.

So let me state the obvious; S&W has a problem with these locks and under the present managment the locks aren't going away. Soooo...

1. How do we quantify the number of defective locks out there vs. the number of guns produced with locks that aren't defective?

2. What is the precentage of defective locks?

3. Has S&W corrected this problem they won't admit exists?

The fact that S&W made hundreds of thousands of guns with the lock that haven't fail leads one to believe the problem isn't a design flaw, but defective parts.

MOONDAWG

And people wonder why I'm planning to purchase a Charter Arms "Undercoverette" chambered in .32 Harrington & Richardson Magnum?!

D'ya think?

Scott

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunfan,

Yes,the problem,or part of it,seems to be lack of verifiable documentation. Are there 16 of these locked-up lock occurences to be found in these pages?
If,in fact Moondawg is right and the (unsubsatiated "PROBLEM") IS defective parts(am I stretched enough here)wouldn't it be much more than sweet for the obviously gifted and successful gunmakers to toss us a bone by a total recall of this type of lock.
For the timer being I'm gonna have faith in the company;but not in the gun. I think they will do right by a customer. Hopefully sooner than later.
Remember to sign up friends,family,significant others...to be NRA members.
Teach a kid to learn the pistol well, carry it always, shoot safely,be honest with himself and others.
"And that's the truth plus a couple o'lies."(Tom Mix)

c


W

Within the next three days, I'll be purchasing that Charter Arms "Undercoverette" in .32 H&R Magnum.

It is too damned bad that S&W couldn't "solve" their ILS lock "difficulties" within the time that I'll be purchasing this revolver.

Another "new" S&W revolver customer lost! (Thanks, Saf-t-hammer!)

Scott

Osprey, thanks--will be nice to see the thread cleaned up once more. Then I will be willing to refer people to the thread again.

Just a suggestion, but...

Anyone even remotely thinking about disabling one of these locks would do well to take Osprey's advice, download this whole thread, and keep it where they can access it including hardcopy.

If the defensive use of a gun with its lock removed or disabled is ever thrown at you by an opposing attorney as an indication of reckless and negligent behavior, it would be MOST helpful to be able to show believable accounts of the lock failing, giving you reason to do so.

Just another guy's $0.02.

Mr.Ayoob,
That is exactly what I would like to see here are ALL "believable" accounts of the S&W ILS failures. Maybe I haven't looked in the right places for all of them(?)
Thank you for your reply.
cameron