When our female German Shepherd was small (don't recall the age, too many years ago) we frequently walked her around the perimeter of our property, first on a leash, then without. We are on 3 1/2 acres, with no fence, and dirt roads on two sides, cotton fields on the other two. For her entire life (almost 12 years) she was reluctant to leave our property, and only would do so if one of the family walked past the property lines and called her, or if she happened to be chasing a rabbit or other critters. She's the only dog we ever had that seemed to know where she was supposed to be, and stay there, but she was quite exceptionally bright. You might try the same thing, but without a fence, I doubt you'd be so lucky, especially with deer running around, begging to be chased!

Mustang51,

If you decide in favor of the puppy, I would suggest considering two (or more). Two dogs are not twice the trouble and the dogs benefit from being in a pack. If the dogs get physical and mental exercise, a small yard is not the drawback it might seem at first.

please dont look at the e-mail from your friends or you will have a new pup.

i just posted these pictures in thread a couple days ago. my new friend.





i followed the link and ordered the DVD set but they show the book out of stock so i will check around for a copy.

enjoy your new dog, ours is a joy so far

Although a reply could be book length, your basic questions are pretty good.

The yard size you quote should be enough...assuming that you also plan on walks/training walks for exercise, along with what most GSD's really enjoy...playing with toys. Never met one that didn't like chasing a ball or stick.

Invisible fences work ok, it's not really a factor of the size of the dog. There are some dogs, no matter what the breed is, that are so obstinate that they'll have no problem crossing the line. That would be very rare, and the dog would display major problems before you ever get to that point. You MUST take the time to follow directions on the use and training involved with these fences. Otherwise you're creating training problems with your dog.

I like to get all my puppies at the magic age [which differs from breed to breed, usually linked to adult expected size of the dog] of 7 to 8 weeks. This time frame, for retriever sized dogs, is the nexus between puppy bonding with other dogs/littermates, and the "switch" time, when they're perfectly situated to begin bonding with humans. It makes for a mentally healthy dog, and a strong human/dog bond.

I like to begin basic obedience training, in class with other puppies, at around 10 weeks. Not too involved, just the basic stuff.

Puppy selection is the hard part. See if the breeder has temper tested the puppies. [It's actually a good sign if your breeder does this anyway.] Temper testing will give you an inclination of how the personality will develop. Note that I said inclination, not a sure thing. A lot of it depends on the "rearing" part you talk about!

Barking is a hard behavior to predict. Uncontrolled incessant barking is a sign of a dog undergoing separation anxiety. It's bored, lonely, underexercised, or just plain ignored. You'll find that behavior more common in puppies that are exceptionally "clingy" or shy. Puppies left alone for too long while they're maturing.

All GSD's are fiercely loyal to their families. You don't say how old your son is. I have an issue with kids and dogs. This may be unpopular, but I do not believe in having young, unpredictable kids have any hand at all in training. I do not allow kids to give command words to my dogs, at all. After the dogs are done with the initial steps of training, I don't expect them to obey anyone else but me and the wife. When learning to heel, either on lead or off, the kids never get the opportunity to "try it."

The problem is consistency. If you and your wife [and son] are not absolutely consistent in how you train, you will create a lazy dog, one who does the bare minimum to just "get by." Everyone should use the same words, expect the same results, and not get in each other's way. You may still have a nice dog if you don't keep to the same page, but you won't be able to expect the excellence that a GSD is capable of.

You and your wife should both go to the classes, but I think that early on in the class, one or the other should do the actual class work. Then, the observer goes home and uses the stuff you learned in one of the training sessions you should do for homework. I don't personally care if the dog views me or the wife as the lead dog...the dog just has to know that the adults are on a higher level on the pecking order. Two homework sessions per day, morning and evening, roughly ten minutes each, is pretty good.

The best thing you have going for you is that the GSD is rated with breeders and trainers alike as one of the top three "intelligent" dog breeds out there.

Sorry about the length of this post...but once I get started on dogs, it's hard to stop!

I'm jealous of you and your wife...getting a new puppy, doing the training, and seeing what consistent, formal training and homework can accomplish. You'll find that training will go from chore to hobby, to serious pursuit, and that as you progress, you find the bond between the dog and the family getting stronger and stronger.

Good luck, have fun!

Len

A dog with strong drives will run right through the invisible fence. Neighbor's off-leash dogs will also come on in possibly getting into fights. Neighborhood kids may get nipped when they come in the yard. Some of our neighbors do not have battery backups when the power is out, and the dogs seem to know they can leave.

Great discussion. My wife and I have owned two GS dogs. one for 9 years and one for 12. there are lots of people that don't like GS dogs. I find that the GS dog is probably smarter than those types of people. hahaha. They are incredibly intelligent animals.

You must be a redneck if your dog is smarter that you are. Now that's funny.

Make sure that the dog has been socialized with humans and other four legged creatures in the 6-12 week old range. This is critical.

Welcome the dog into your house. He will want to be part of the family.

Our first GS dog was primarily a yard dog. I was working full time and attending engineering school at UA-Huntsville and both of our two-legged babies were born.

We found out how good of a dog can be when we got our second GS. He was such a great animal that I have asked for forgiveness for the way I treated the first one. It was sinfull to leave the dog out in a fenced yard and isolated from his family. Please do not do that to such a fine animal.

Obedience training is a must. You must give the dog a job. He will want to please you, so give him a reason to.

Good luck.

Mustang

I ran the English Springer Spaniel rescue in NE Illinois for 3 years while I lived in a 2 bedroom condo in Chicago's Old Town neighborhood. You can't get more City than that. I had 2 springers of my own and usually one foster, several times for a few days or a week I had up to 3 fosters in addition to my two. That many springers equal one large GS easily.

In my experience city dogs have it far better than suburban/rural dogs do. Now remember Springers (especially the ones that come into a rescue) are bird dogs, high energy, athletic, with lots of drive. Not so different in that regard from a good GS. Being in the heart of Chicago means your dogs must be walked since it's rare for anyone to have a yard. And walking the dog or going to a park means you'll likely run into other dogs also being walked or enjoying the same park.

Advantage one: City dogs are very well socialized to people and other dogs. They have to be. There are only so many places for them to run. City dogs spend a lot of quality time with their owners, exercising, walking, playing, and TRAINING. Again, they NEED to be good citizens since there are no huge fenced spaces to go wild in. Behavior problems are generally nipped in the bud. In my experience training is the most stimulation you can give your dog, and city dogs get some every day on every walk and every trip to the park.

I feel sorry for the majority of suburban dogs that are "let out" in their yards, never have a chance to interact with another dog, and rarely hear more than "go out" or "come in" from their owners.

Advantage 2: Better health. Picking-up after your dog makes you very aware of their health. You notice immediately if there's something wrong. Worms, disease, etc, are first noticed by a change in stool, urination, and/or behavior. If you handle your dogs stool 3-4 times daily, and are a leash length (6ft) away from their urine 4-5 times a day, you'd be amazed how "in touch" with their state of health you become. And Vet's are everywhere, there were 3 (not counting the Chicago Humane Society) within 5 blocks of my condo. The only disadvantage in my experience is that downtown vets charge more than Rural ones.

So make the commitment and go for it! Don't let the lack of a fenced yard deter you from getting a dog. In my experience (and I include myself here) fenced yards make for lazy, complacent, owners and untrained, under-stimulated, un-socialized, unhappy dogs.

/b

PS: I doubt an invisible fence will work for you. I've only seen 2 in use and they really didn't do the job. One worked sometimes (depending on the dog's mood), and the other one never.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: blairgarber,

German Shepherds can be some of the best and some of the worst dogs to have. Some of the shepherds I've been around have been among the best dogs I've ever come in contact with. However, I have been around a few that were down right scary. I think being selective with the breeder that you get the dog from and more importantly how you raise and train it makes all the difference in the world.

As far as the invisible fence, not a good idea with a dog like a shepherd. There was a case in Colorado Springs several years ago where an owner depended on an invisible fence to contain his two Akitas within the yard. The fence did not contain them and it led to a very unfortunate event. The other liability is that while it may keep your dog within your yard, it will not keep others outside of your yard.

Training and socializing as a pup go a long ways towards having a great dog. It's hard to argue against a good shepherd as being one of the best dogs that you can have with a family.

I've got a soft spot for Norwegian Elkhounds as well. Sadly we lost ours to kidney failure when she was only 5. I'd love to still have her. The Aussie Shepherd mix we got after her passing to keep our Akita company has been a lot more high maintenance (sprinkler system dug up twice, tunnel dug underneath slab supporting AC compressor, literally ate 3 trees...)

Hope you have a great addition to the family.

Love German Shedders, uh, Shepherds, have one panting in my ear right now. Wonderful dogs, but they need activity and family time. Twice a year the coat "blows out", or sheds heavily, no big deal, just brush 'em.

It's unfair to a real working dog to just put them in the back yard and forget about them. Heck, that's unfair to any dog.

I like a physical fence. The electric ones usually work fine for keeping your dog in, but, they don't keep out wildlife and other dogs.

Once again, I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses. You have given me some things to consider. I certainly don't intend to cage or tie the dog outside. The invisible fence idea could be the stumbling block. Below are two shots of my back yard. On the right side we have a fence, but along the left,where my lot actually extends behind their house, we enjoy a sort of gentlemen's agreement with the neighbors to leave the space open.

That yard is plenty big enough... My last girl spent the bulk of her years on city lots... the longest time in a yard smaller than yours by quite a bit. I used to take her about every where though. She was fine at/in the truck with the door open as long as she could see or hear my equipment runnin but if I shut it off out of sight she come a running looking for me. With a long yard like that ya could run an overhead cable and a lead off of it that can go the length...

do me a favor and don't send me a picture of the pups saying I can give one a good home for free... it'd likely push me over the edge

They are work but definitely a worthy addition to the family as long as ya are dedicated dog folk.

Oh BTW make sure ya have a great vacuum!

quote:

Should I be the only one to issue commands/rewards, etc., or should my wife and son be included?

The dog should never believe it is superior to the humans in the household. This is a set-up for disaster.

Before you select the puppy, familiarize yourself with Volhard & Fisher's Puppy Aptitude Test. A family dog should score mostly 3s.

All dogs need discipline, exercise and affection. It's never too early to start socializing and training your puppy, and continuing with that throughout his life.

Be careful with your cats. Here's what can happen:


Barb's advice is good. Everyone in the household should occasionally bite the puppy across the snout. (No, not kidding.) Dog weighs 90 lbs., cat weighs 17...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 38-44HD45,

German Shepherds are great dogs. I've had a few over the years. Our newest is a great family pet and protector...and has the size to pull it off. I have 75 acres and he will romp and run through most all of it if I am out and about. Your 3/4 of an acre will be enough if you can get him out to a park or some other open spaces where he can run.

Here is Clancy is with my daughter at about 2 months.



Here is with the misses at about six months.



He is now about a year and half and weighs 120 pounds. He will continue to fill out over the next year or so and will get even bigger.

quote:

we enjoy a sort of gentlemen's agreement with the neighbors to leave the space open.

Sometimes the plans and "agreements" change as time moves on and our families grow. Don't let that be the reason your son can't have a pet. Chain link with a gate leaves things pretty open. The view is still there anyway.