Father and son...

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-...un17,0,3126378.story

After reading this I wonder if the father was mentally ill and "something" pushed him into the state where he thought the child was "possessed". We will probably never know.

The poor wife/mother...

It happened on a rural road.
A road where you wouldn't have to go too far to get a brick, stick, rock, or tire iron out of your trunk or stab the guy in the eye or neck with your ink pen. A kick to the groin. Or two or more people rushing him together. You can do any number of things or at least die trying.
The guy didn't even have a weapon other than his arms and legs. The same as six people watching.
Reminds me of the New York case in the 70s when at least 100 people watched a woman get stabbed to death in a city street.
I often wonder when children go missing and never return, how many times someone saw it happen but was afraid to react or call.
I think most people go through life mentally unprepared for any kind of trouble. Very few walk around thinking "what if?" And are caught dumbfounded when faced with a real situation.
This one's a prime example because the father's using deadly force on a toddler and people are trying to push him away or reason with him instead of using equal or greater force to stop the assault. Very sad.

"Father and son..."

I cannot imagine...

As far as anyone not doing anything, we were not there maybe they could not get to him or tried and were unable to combat a full grown male. That poor child.

HOUSTON RICK--I am almost 60 and have two steel hips and I am not given to "blowing smoke" but I swear to you that I would have gone at that A..... until one or the other of us was down for the count! I truly can not believe that they just stood there and let that baby die! Those who stood there and watched or made a single effort or even two will have to live with the nightmares of this for the rest of their lives--and well they should!

I believe that the vast majority of individuals in this country have been so emasculated that their fear of taking action overloads whatever decency they may have.

Thank you Bob, I thought I was in the Twilight Zone. I too would rather die trying to save that child than to know I let the kid down.
I find that more and more over the years, the younger generations are afraid to actually physically fight another person. They will go for a weapon instead of engage in a physical altercation. I've met police officers who I work with who have never been in a fist fight in their life! And they still avoid them like the plague. How the hell do you go through child hood as a boy without some physical altercations?

Makes you not want to let your kids out of your sight. There was a time when I thought that any, or at least most "normal" strangers would step in to help a kid in trouble. Not anymore.

I'm not one to get involved, but in this case I would have hammered the bastard with my .44 magnum.

Speechless

quote:

Originally posted by flop-shank:
I would have hammered the bastard with my .44 magnum.

See, thats the problem. Given that its Kali, the problem that existed was that no one can legally carry in some places. Worse, no one can PC carry any place in the world. It wouldn't take a 44, much less a magnum. Even a lowly 22 or 25 auto would have changed the confrontation significantly. People tend to abandon their interests or their focus when the first round or two hits them. As you empty the gun, they start to become much more interested in their own survival, or their energy level drops off. Lying down becomes the primary goal.

It is a shame that a responsible citizen wasn't there to assist the helpless child. The above quoted headline is wrong. The murderer wasn't a Father. He was just a crazed jerk. I'm not willing to let him off with an excuse like he was mentally ill. I don't even think that should be a defense in such a situation.

The PC atmosphere were guns are evil and anyone that would carry one is a bad person is partially the cause. Yes, most responsible people would really like to take action. Even docile women would like to have had the chance to stop it if they could. Given a good claw hammer, most non-PC women would have taken a swing or two at the perp. Here 2 out of 12 or so say they made ineffecive attempts.

I understand, Wheeler. That's some sick stuff!

Hey, this guy wouldnt stop for a cop! He gave the cop the finger! No civilian could stop him without shooting him. A hopped up perk can be unhumanly strong and take a lot of lead. Years ago I had a friend on LAPD who emptied his gun on one and so did his partner, I forgot how many rounds it took.
One of the wittness,s was a volunteer fireman, must have been healthy, I wonder about that one, a source said he quit beating the kid for a few secounds, he held the kid under one arm while they hunted a flasher switch on one vehicle! Realisticly I want to suppose the infant was already dead, and they probley didnt want to take him on figuering why get hurt or killed at that point.
I know all of us want to think we would have took him down, but while I think I have the same opinion as the rest here, I wasnt there and wont judge the witness,s.
Almost 50 years ago I did get involved in a brawl in jackson wyoming. They had a tourist event of hanging "clover the killer". There had to be about a 1,000 people or so watching. A fight broke out between a couple of rodeo riders, and 2 locals, one was a indian that was badly beaten but wouldnt stop. The 6ft 4" rodeo rider wouldnt back off as the indian crawled on his knees shouting obsenities, bleeding out of his mouth, nose and ears, saying come to me ya m f er! The cowboy would kick him again! At first I thought it was part of the show. Some girls were bent over the other civilian that was knocked cold. I got him over my shoulder to throw him in their car and he come to, bit my ear and punched me! I just threw him in the car, passed out again, and went over and got between the indian and cowboy and stopped the fight. It was amazeing as not one person of a thousand helped me! The entire crowd seemed in shock! It was summer of 1961, I had just taken a job in grand teton national park. I was well treated by all business owners that summer! Right after that there was about a group of 6 or 7 of us at the silver dollar bar. The owner came up to us, singled me out, and asked me if my boys were at least as old as me! Yup! The funny thing was I was just turned 19, and was the youngest of my co-workers. We had a good summer in town!

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:

quote:

Originally posted by flop-shank:
I would have hammered the bastard with my .44 magnum.

See, thats the problem. Given that its Kali, the problem that existed was that no one can legally carry in some places. Worse, no one can PC carry any place in the world. It wouldn't take a 44, much less a magnum. Even a lowly 22 or 25 auto would have changed the confrontation significantly. People tend to abandon their interests or their focus when the first round or two hits them. As you empty the gun, they start to become much more interested in their own survival, or their energy level drops off. Lying down becomes the primary goal.

It is a shame that a responsible citizen wasn't there to assist the helpless child. The above quoted headline is wrong. The murderer wasn't a Father. He was just a crazed jerk. I'm not willing to let him off with an excuse like he was mentally ill. I don't even think that should be a defense in such a situation.

The PC atmosphere were guns are evil and anyone that would carry one is a bad person is partially the cause. Yes, most responsible people would really like to take action. Even docile women would like to have had the chance to stop it if they could. Given a good claw hammer, most non-PC women would have taken a swing or two at the perp. Here 2 out of 12 or so say they made ineffecive attempts.

If I saw that happen, it would be in Michigan. I never leave the state, and I'm definately not going to California. Like I said, I would have shot the bastard.

Michael Savage stated yesterday that the police officer is now in trouble??

quote:

Michael Savage stated yesterday that the police officer is now in trouble??

I can't imagine a more justified use of force than shooting someone who refuses to stop stomping on a two year old. I think Savage is probably full of it, as usual.

Moose, I understand where you are coming from.

In the past 3 months, here in Honolulu, we have had 3 good samaritans KILLED while trying to stop, 1 robbery, 2 domestics.

I am a diabetic, I am on a kidney list. My kidney function is 35%. Altho, I am 5'8" and 195#, I am physically very weak due to my medical condition to the point where I can not defend myself.

If Iwere to try to STOP the person involved in this incidet, I would NEED to use an implement that Guarantees that he will DROP not stop, but DROP INSTABTLY. If he doesn't and turns on me instead......

A while back we had a case where a Large 6'2", 250 # male was beating his wife with a shotgun butt, a 69 yr old man tried to help her and ended up in the hospital. The police got him later.

Given my Reduced Physical state, I could end up in the morgue on the tray Next to the toddler.

Which is why I carry a camera with 10:1 optical zoom almost any where I go.

The Wife and I already went over this. Does she need to be a widow?

According to Hawaii law, even if we had CCW, I can be arrested for shooting the BG. Our police are under orders to AUTOMATICALLY ARREST the shooter under any circumstances, especially if some one is shot and Killed.

As one friend said, being judged by 12 is better than carried by 6. ONE of my answers is, WHO is going to PAY for getting acquitted by the 12? Then, next is to get the Arrest for the shooting EX-punged by the Govorner. Not an easy thing to do here in Hawaii.

If any of the rest want, feel free to e mail me and we can Discuss this further

yb