People love the idea of a bottleneck auto round in a revolver. Previous posters have wished for revolvers in 223, 357 Sig, etc. As has been pointed out many times before, there are major problems with trying to fire bottleneck rounds from revolver cylinders. Problems of case expansion and cases backing out mean that revolvers shooting such rounds either do not work or do not work very well. The 22 Jet is a prime example. To my knowledge, and some correct me if I am wrong, S&W has not wasted their time trying sell a revolver chambered for a bottleneck round nice the 22 Jet, which was discontinued sometime in the early to mid-70s.
Posts: 3800 | Location: Get Some, GA | Registered: 20 August 2005
There's not a lot of support from American ammunition makers, who's manufacturing capacity is already stretched, for this caliber. Most of the foreign loadings are simply FMJs meant to be fired from Czech Model 52s or various models of Tokarevs. From those pistols, the main attraction is deep penetration and - arguably - the cheap purchase cost of the gun itself.
Even if the technical problems of firing the bottle neck round in a revolver are solved, it is somewhat problematic to imagine that a market for this chambering would exist. (People don't usually buy J frames with the hope of tapping into a supply of cheap surplus ammunition to fire in one.)
However, if you want a cartridge that delivers something akin to 7.62x25mm performance, there is the .327 Magnum. SW does not currently offer revolvers so chambered. Ruger does offer their SP101. Just because SW apparently has no current plans to offer this chambering doesn't mean that ones won't show up on the market in a year or two if the cartridge is a success.
Yeah, I am well aware of the problems in manufacturing a revolver for such a wierd bottleneck round. I am just a fan of it, and want something that will roar.
As for the .327 Federal, I am lukewarm toward it. Until plinking ammunition is in good supply I am not interested.
For now, it looks like the Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine will have to suffice.
I would like to see them take a .30 Carbine and shorten it to the length of a 9mm round, and chamber it in a miniature version of a J-frame, 5-shot gun- that would be nice.
It isn't entirely true that bottleneck cartridges won't work in revolvers...take the .32-20 Winchester for example.
There has to be a "point" at where the neck of the cartridge has so much surface area and the force exhibited by that area upon firing overcomes the force by the expansion of the rest of the cartridge on the cylinder walls and allows it to "back out" onto the recoil shield and therefore locking up the action of the revolver. I believe the .32 WCF works because (1) it is a lower pressure cartridge, and (2) it's neck is very minimal- rather than the steep angles on modern necked cartridges.
The current adoration of the 7.62 Tok will dry up as soon as the supply of cheap ammo disappears. I've seen this phenomenon time and time again with whatever the "import of the day" happens to be. I think S&W has enough sense to see that this chambering has no staying power. (In addition to the reasons mentioned above about bottlenecks in a revolver.)
Dean SWCA #680
Posts: 2162 | Location: Ocean Shores, WA, USA | Registered: 21 November 2004
I agree with deadin that once the cheap surplus ammo dries up, interest in the round will fall off. I like the round, especially in small full-auto subguns.
Posts: 3800 | Location: Get Some, GA | Registered: 20 August 2005
Originally posted by animalmother: I agree with deadin that once the cheap surplus ammo dries up, interest in the round will fall off. I like the round, especially in small full-auto subguns.
You guys are probably right but if someone would do a 7.62x25 in a revolver or a semi auto for that matter, like S&W or Ruger, it wouldn't be long before Hornady, Federal, Winchester etc would be making the ammo.
Winchester does make the ammunition, at least I've seen it advertised online, in the "Metric Calibers" White Box line. There's only one loading currently, an 85 grain FMJ at a claimed 1600 fps.
Originally posted by animalmother: Anyone know if this round could be used in a 1911 size gun? Is the round short enough to fit in a 1911 mag well?
If you had one in 10mm, it should fit in the magazine well. The 10mm guns are sometimes converted to 9x25mm Dillon, so I don't see why a conversion to 7.62x25mm wouldn't work. You'd just need a custom made barrel I'd think.
It would cost a fair amount to have a such a barrel made for one (given the lack of aftermarket barrels for 3rd generation autos), but you could probably convert a SW 10mm automatic I'd think.
Unfortunately, the 7.62x25 Tokarev is just slightly too long for Gov't model magazines. This includes the 10mm magazines also.
However, the clever Chinese did convert some M1911A1s to fire the 7.62 cartridge. It required modifying both the frame and the magazine, as well as replacing the barrel. Magazine capacity was limited.
I have contemplated trying this approach, I have a Mec-Gar .38 Super magazine which will almost accept surplus 7.62 Tok as it is. Like many of my other projects, it is currently on the back burner. I think it can be done, though it is not a simple process.
Think I'll pass this time...
