And, I just realized, shortening the barrel also decreases the power, of course.

Dang, it's no fun being an engineeer, you can crush your own wishes. And on the Smith and Wesson forum, with expert assistance. Wah.

Never mind that it's technically unfeasible, and probably dangerous to the shooter. I still want something like this.

Let's just say I want a revolver the size of a Keltec, with the power of at least a short barrel .357 magnum. Somehow.

Preferably without having to wear an asbestos glove.

Maybe Michael Jackson has one already?

The answer to the question: bottleneck cartridge. Make it shorter, you make it fatter.

I haven't yet figured out why this short cartridge scenario would be advantageous...

The idea is to make the pistol (I agree with your signature line) shorter, so it will conceal more like a Keltec or all the other members of the plague of semi-autos.

I've read a lot on this forum that bottleneck cartridges are a bad idea in revolvers. Don't exactly know why.

The .38 special case is perfectly capable of safely being loaded up to .357 magnum power levels....and has been done for 70 or more years. A stubbier "magnum" cartridge is perhaps conceiveable, but it would have to be so designed so as not to chamber in .38 revolvers, or lawsuits would shortly ensue.

The 9mm Federal a 9x19mm round with a rim showed that IF you introduce a new hotter cartrdige and a new gun, the Charter Arms 9mm federal piston, AND you let gun owners TRY to fit this ammo into OLD guns

38S&W special holes maybe others...

Then the idiot gun owners blow up their guns and hurt themselves because they are ... dumb.

If people hadn't done this we would still have 9mm Federal revolvers today and 9mm moonclip revolvers.

I also like the idea of a modern, compact, high-pressure revolver cartridge. But I think the best approach to eliminate some of the issues that have been discussed is to create an entirely new cartridge that can not be cambered in any existing firearm.

One idea might be a .40 magnum. Using existing bullet designs but in a rimmed and maybe even slightly different length cartridge than the current .40 S&W. Design it to whatever pressure level you need to obtain the ballistics you seek. Design a new line of revolvers around that package. Or alternatively to perhaps fit into the current J & K frame envelope, a true .38 caliber cartridge using .380 diameter bullets and a correspondingly unique case.

Might also be a good time to apply some innovative technology and design ideas to the revolver itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Ezra:
9x23 Winchester with moon clips would probably work real nice.


Ez

As a dyed-in-the wool 9x23 fan, I like the idea, although the 9x23 is a longer cartridge than the original poster seems to envision. Dane Burns has converted a few J-frames (940s, I think) to 9x23. 9x23 runs at hellacious pressures, like 48KPsi, so I'd think it would be mighty hard on the little guns. I often carry a Kimber Aegis I've converted to 9x23, and I'm getting 1375fps+ from the little 3-incher with WW 125gr. Silvertips. The conversion involves a lot more than just rechambering, but it packs lots of punch into a small package.

38/44,
Got any pictures of it, just to refresh our memories?

Here it is - "357 magnum short" The gun for which the high speed 38 special cartridge was developed. Candy for the eyes.

I was hoping someone would bring up this fine old load, that seems to have been lost to history! I enjoy reading old data on it, which shows all it has to offer anyone willing to to do a "blast from the past".

Spot,

Not quite lost yet. Two friends of mine just bough pre-23 and M22 in perfect working order. We are gearing up to try them with some loads they were designed to shoot.

Wouldn't it produce the desired effect to make a 9mm revolver - shortening the cylinder appropriately, and then dropping LE +P+ ammunition into it for ammunition?

Yeah Gator,
But then where's the romance, the ambiance, the-the(?) ability to discuss it endlessly so our wives won't be annoyed by our company?

quote:

Originally posted by Spotteddog:
38/44,
Got any pictures of it, just to refresh our memories?

I don't have a pic of what it looks like now, with Davidson G-10 grips and Wilson safety, but here's a photo of it "in transition," with most of the conversion completed:
I'm not 100% certain, but as I recall, that's a Cor-Bon DPX bullet after expansion in water.

Several problems with trying to get 357 mag velocities and bullet weights with a short cartridge.

The big ones are powder capacity and pressure levels needed with such a small case. The longer the case the greater the velocity that can be obtained for a given pressure. Per the Magnum Research BFR revolver site the 45-70 BFR revolver can equal 454 Casull ballistics with about half the pressure.

I suspect that 357 ballistics from a case as short as the thread initiator wants would require at least pressures close to those in the 460 and 500 Magnums, over 50K. Those require a STRONG revolver cylinder and barrel forcing cone with associated metal thickness requirements.

Also been enough different cartridges and revolvers made that some damned fool will find something it will fit into and try firing it. An example mentioned is the 9mm Rimmed in 38 Special revolvers. Another I have heard of is the 357 magnum being fired in an old 38 Long Colt revolver as they had straight through bored cylinders and a 38 Special or 357 could be chambered in them, frequently with hand grenade results.

I suspect that the same human idiocy is responsible for the demise of the special high velocity loadings of the 38 special for the 38-44 N frame revolvers.