Anyone out there want S&W to bring out a 625 in 45 colt with heavy barrel and beefier cylinder to withstand Ruger pressures.Ive got a 625 45 colt Mountain Gun and love it but really limited to just cowboy loads and about a 1000 fps factory or handloaded ammo,Ruger has chambered their 4 inch Redhawk in .45 colt and it'll handle anything you want to put through it why can't S&W do the same.I know a lot of you all would probably like to see the same thing,so you can get the full potential out of the .45 colt.

More steel in the cylinder is NOT the answer. If S&W kept their .45 Colt cylinders as thick (or thin, depending on your perspective) as they are right now BUT took the time to bore them properly, the world would be a much happier place. What is "properly?" Minimum brass expansion and chamber throats .001" over groove diameter would be a great place to start. Sounds simple, doesn't it?

Ruger doesn't have all the answers either. Their cylinders have more steel and they are heat treated properly (another strike against S&W) but their chambers are still sloppy. Redhawks tend to develop serious ignition problems with extended use. There are reasons for this, but Ruger just doesn't care. Also, with Ruger it's "their way or no way" and they refuse to work on custom guns.

Do you want a really nice .45 Colt DA revolver? Buy a pre-MIM/pre-lock 629, send it to Hamilton Bowen and have it rebored and rechambered to .45 Colt. It WILL be worth the money. You really don't need to shoot a 255 gr. bullet faster than about 1100 FPS to solve any of your problems.

Dave Sinko

Dave,
I just examined a Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt with a 4"barrel,I happen to carry a digital caliper with me when I visit the gunshops and measured the throats on this gun and all measured .451,take it's not .452 like I would want it to be I'd say it'll shoot jacketed bullets well but cast bullets will open groups up quite a bit,I have a 5.5"New Model Blackhawk that the throats have been opened up to .452 and she'll shoot jacketed or cast high velocity rounds like a dream,If i had the cash I would probably have Hamilton Bowen build me a S&W in .45 colt that would handle +p colts I shoot.I love my 625-6 Mountain Gun and have killed coyote,deer,and blackbear with my standard load of a 255 HCSWC on top of 9 grains of Unique in a Starline case and a Federal LPP with no problems and for my social load as I call it for CCW I substitute the 255 for a 250grain GoldDot and get around 945 fps with the current powder lot I'm loading from when last chronographed, a little more with the 255 HCSWC,just wished S&W would produce a production gun that would handle the barnburners,until then I'll just carry the Ruger HogLeg when I need high velocity heavy weight jacketed or cast bullets,but I'm considering the 4" Redhawk if the price is right,if I purchase it I'll let you know how works out.
Equalizer

Read John Linbaugh's take on the 625.

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12

Dan Wesson made a cool revolver that was stamped .460 Rowland, but it would shoot .45 ACP, .45 WinMag, .45 Super, .451 Detonics and .45 Rowland.

Honestly, the only two I was remotely interestd in was the .45 ACP and .45 WinMag. That would have been a cool revolver to have, especially if S&W did one.

Quoting John Linbaugh:

"The frames on S&W are not heat treated thus are pretty soft."

I've never read this before. Anybody know for sure?

My 4" Redhawk is a Bowen Alpine Conversion of a rebored 5 1/2" .44 Magnum. It is a standard six shooter that can use HKS speedloaders. The great advantage here is the tight chambers that do not excessively work the brass. The vast majority of my shooting is with loads that can easily be fired from the S&W platform. The exception is a 335 gr. LBT at 1260 FPS which is reserved for dangerous game. Another plus is that 255 gr. bullets at up to 1100 FPS are rather comfortable to shoot, even fast double action.

The disadvantage with the Redhawk is that they tend to develop serious ignition problems. Mine recently went sour and Bowen had a hell of a time fixing it due to Ruger's quiet re-design of the transfer bar. He told me I was the first customer to wear out a Redhawk strictly due to heavy DA use. I shot that gun a lot because I carried it concealed full time for a few years, but frankly any good S&W would still be going strong after similar use.

The .45 Winchester Magnum moonclip gun is at the top of my wish list. But hardly anybody is interested. Bowen thinks the cartridge is useless and will make one only if you have very deep pockets. Dave Clements said he has made a few but I have never seen one. I am very unimpressed by the quality of Dan Wesson revolvers and would never want one.

All things considered, I still believe a rebore of a good S&W .44 Magnum to .45 Colt does not leave much to be desired. A rebored Blackhawk would be better for those who don't need DA capability. Parts are much more common for those and they are easily repaired if anything breaks.

Dave Sinko

A larger cylinder would almost certainly require a new larger frame. The current cylinder is already at or close to maximum diameter to fit the frame cutout.

They could strengthen things by going to a 5 shot cylinder but that would be acknowledging that they approve of shooting ammo that is way above SAAMI specs for the cartridge. Doubt if the corporate lawyers would buy off on it.

Most revolver cylinders other than custom chambered ones or those in guns from Freedom Arms are a bit loose. I suspect in part due to SAAMI specs being too generous and to accomodate ammo from ALL possible sources. Also how well will a minimum dimension chambered revolver handle speed loaders?

Ruger revolvers have another advantage. The cylinder notches are offset, while those on a six shot S&W are centered directly over the chamber, which is the thinnest part of the cylinder.

And, yes, the non magnum revolvers are not heat treated the same as the magnum guns.

I used to hunt with the Cor Bon 265gr Bonded Cor 45 Colt rounds in my stainless Mountain Gun I used to have. I did not fire a range day of that ammo through that gun, but did fire it enough to get accurate with those hot loads and killed three deer with it. Never saw any damage to the gun and experienced incredible hunting revolver accuracy. Sorry I sold it, always on the lookout for another one if I can afford it.

Muley Gil,
Excellent point made on the offset notches of the Ruger,that is the weakest point on the 25s and 625s in .45 Colt,My mountian gun is a great revolver and deadly accurate,but the downside is the thickness of metal between the chamber and the notch,not enough meat.I shoot a 250 grain Hronady XTP hp on top of 27.5 grains of Win-296 or H-110 in a Starline case with a CCI LPMP out of my Blackhawk with a 5.5" barrel and it shoots consistently 1453 fps on my chronograph measured 12 feet from the barrel and has taken whitetail out to a 100 yards,I can shoot this load without any discomfort,If i try this with my 629-1 4" with fullhouse 240s she wears my hand out,of course we're talking 2 different shooting platforms.But the .45 loaded at this level surpasses the .44 with comfortable recoil and accuracy.
Equalizer

I have an email from Corbon stating that ALL of their +P 45 Colt loads are safe in modern model 25s. The same info is repeated in the FAQs on their web site.

They do warn of increased wear if this ammo is used consistently but that is true of hot loads in any gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Rich W:
I have an email from Corbon stating that ALL of their +P 45 Colt loads are safe in modern model 25s. The same info is repeated in the FAQs on their web site.

They do warn of increased wear if this ammo is used consistently but that is true of hot loads in any gun.

Rich W.

I also think that the cylinder is just a part of the issue. At Ruger only loads, frame stretching would become an issue, as would increased end shake. The yoke tube is perhaps a major weak link....

Anywhoo.....


A quote from Mr 45 Colt himself, John Linebaugh:

In reality the Model 25-5 is about 80% as strong as the Model 29 in the cylinder area. The frames are the same and are designed for a 40,000 psi load level even though we know this is a bit more than they are happy with. It's too bad S&W builta 40,00 psi cylinder and installed it in a 30,000 psi frame, so to speak. (note: since this writing S&W has worked on the problem of the cylinder unlatching and rolling back under recoil after it gets a bit worn) The 25-5 in .45 Colt is safe to 80% of the 40,000 psi of the .44 Magnum Model 29. This allows a load of 32,000 psi in this frame. I have shot hundreds of the 32,000 psi class loads listed at the beginning of this article in several Model 25-5's. Recoil is heavy due to the S&W "hump" on the grip, but I do not see these loads as being dangerous in this fine gun. I do consider 32,000 to be ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM for this gun and prefer to hold my personal loads to 5% under those listed loads for approximately 25,000 psi. I carry a S&W 4" in .45 Colt daily and shoot a 260 gr. Keith at 900 fps for general duty. When I saddle up and go into the hills I pack the same gun with a 310 gr. NEI Keith over 23 gr. H-110. This gives me about 1080 fps and all the punch I need for anything on our mountain. As with any gun and load data, work up carefully. I assume responsibility only for the ammo I myself assemble.

Best regards. John L.


Giz

Easy, make it a 5 shot N frame and keep the exterior dimensions.