Another off the wall question. Have any of you had any experience with .25 auto pistols? I have had a Browning Baby .25 now for over 30 years and have never done anything with it. I saw it laying back the other day and decided I might give it a shot. It is a "plain Jane" .25 but is in factor new condition . I know that firing it will lessen its value but I still would like to try it out. I have only fired one .25 in my life and that was an Ortgie that came apart in my hand with only two shots going down it's barrel. Opinions please, what do they amount to as a concealed weaon? I have only heard from Elmer Keith on this and he told me to forget about them altogether. Still....

Sir,

The .25 Auto issue is being discussed in the CCW section of the forum:

The .25 Auto

Regards,

Dave

The late Jeff Cooper said, paraphrased, "Never load it. If you do load it, you may be tempted to carry it. If you carry it, and you get in trouble, you may be tempted to pull it. If you pull it, you may be tempted to point it at your antagonist. If you point it at your antagonist, you may be tempted to shoot him. If you shoot him, you may hit him. If you hit him, he may become angry and do you violence."

Cooper said he would rather be armed with a hatchet than a .25 Auto.

Someone else warned that it leaves you in the unfortunate position of legally carrying a concealed, deadly weapon but still unable to defend yourself.

That said, the Baby Brownings are very well made little pistols. They are hard to hit things with due to their small grip, small sights, short sight radius and stiff trigger, but they may be the best of their type. I would carry one as a second or third gun but realize that it is a very weak refuge in a storm.

I'd feel safer carrying a .22 LR pistol. You'd at least get some penetration with the .22. If I were forced to pick a caliber that I had to be shot with, I'd pick the .25 auto.

quote:

Originally posted by gmchenry:
I'd feel safer carrying a .22 LR pistol. You'd at least get some penetration with the .22. If I were forced to pick a caliber that I had to be shot with, I'd pick the .25 auto.

Unfortunately, this is a common misconception. The .25 ACP is more powerful in the 2" barrel than is the .22 L.R.. The .22 is lighter in weight (40 grains) and has a lead (heel-type bullet), while the traditional loading of the .25 ACP is 50 grains and loaded with a FMJ (center fire type) bullet. The .22 travels at about the same speed, while the heavier, .25 ACP generates between 5 and 10 more ft-lbs of energy.

In "mini", or "pocket" pistols, the .25, however slight, has the power edge.

Scott

The .25ACP will kill you but is not a "man stopper" like the .45ACP, etc. A couple of .25ACP slugs in the eye sockets is fairly effective.

You will not hurt the value much if at all by sending a magazine or two down range. Do it and get it out of your system. Then put the gun back in the safe and leave it there. Do not carry it for self-defense.

For very compact self-defense carry, get a Kel-Tec P32 or 3AT. Either is thinner and lighter than the Browning, is only a little bigger, is double action and is more powerfull.

My dad has a Beretta Jetfire .25 Auto. I used to always make fun of it, saying I'd do more damage punching my way out of a fight. Then he'd ask if I wanna get shot by it. The way I see it, it's still a gun and I wouldn't want to get shot with it, but I wouldn't want to find myself having to rely on a .25 in a gun fight. Ever.

One major advantage of the .25 over the .22 LR is ammo reliability. The .25 is a centerfire cartridge and the primers ignite pretty consistently. Compare this to the rimfire .22's, where the priming compound is "spun" into the rim and may or may not be underneath the firing pin when it falls.

Think how many unfired .22 LR rounds you see on the ground at your range. Not so many unfired centerfire rounds with primer hits.

If a pistol is available in .25 ACP and .22 LR, the centerfire .25 will be the more reliable proposition.

The Baby Browning is a jewel of a little gun. I'm under no illusions about the effectiveness of the round, but I do have an old letter from Jeff Cooper in which he agrees strongly with me that "an accurate pocket pistol in .22 or .25 has a place in any thinking man's battery" -- not as a primary piece, but as a last-ditch, ultra-concealable backup. If I had a nice .25 I'd certainly use it in that role. If I were looking to buy a tiny hideout these days, I'd choose the KelTec P32, or the very slightly larger KelTec P3AT or Ruger LCP, over any .25 -- more punch with no loss of concealability.

quote:

Originally posted by gunfan:
The .22 travels at about the same speed, while the heavier, .25 ACP generates between 5 and 10 more ft-lbs of energy.

In "mini", or "pocket" pistols, the .25, however slight, has the power edge.

Yet the .22 has a little higher sectional density which aids in penetration.

I also realize that we're talking about little pistols. If the only thing you knew was the caliber, how many .25 auto rifles do you know of.

I ran across this little article which is a magazine article from Guns & Ammo Handguns. It even discusses the Baby Browning and the reliability of centerfire vs. rimfire.
http://www.naaminis.com/news20.pdf

A NEW Baby Browning would be worth a tidy sum these days. ANY shooting of a NIB gun with collector's interest will reduce the dollar value considerably.

I'd sell it to a collector and borrow or buy a used gun to play with.

My CZ45 is a fine little pistol. Now if I could just get some nuclear 25ACP...

I briefly owned a U.S.-made stainless steel copy of the Baby Browning. I can't think of the name for sure, Bauer maybe?

I shot it a bit. The design is very sound, as John Browning-designed guns usually are. The gun worked fine. I was underwhelmed.

If yours is truly unfired, I probably wouldn't shoot it at all. The experience is not ground-shaking and any number of small, inexpensive pistols, which also have tiny grips, tiny sights, and short sight radiuses ("radiai"?) exist to give you a very similar experience.

Thanks to all who submitted information on the .25 acp and the browning in particular. The one I own is new in its pouch and I have had it for many years. I think I paid $29.95 for it but am not sure. Anyway, I am putting it back and using a new Jennings/Bryco .25 for testing. I got the J/B .25 and ...22lr version in a trade sometime back and never used either as I had heard too much bad publicity on both. However, I have read some favorable remarks lately on the Jennings/Bryco/Jimenez forum and decided to give them a whirl.I have already fired over two hundred minimags through the .22 version w/o a single problem and I plan to shoot the .25 as soon as the gunstores open today. Incidentally. neither of the pistols cost me more than $50.00 so I can throw them away if I like and not worry about the cost. I spend this much or more on an evening out. I must say that the .22 version surprised me no end so maybe Jimenez is making improvements.Thanks again

The 25 ACP has a slight edge over the 22 LR in power when both are fired from 2-inch barrels. A lot of gun writers over the years looked at 22 LR power figures that were taken from ammo makers' charts. Problem was that the velocity and energy figures were obtained from rifles.

The 25 ACP has a clear edge over the 22 LR it terms of reliability in a small autoloader.

The 22 LR has a big edge over the 25 ACP when it comes to ammo cost. Got to Midway, Nathcez, or Cheaper Than Dirt. Good Lord! 25 ACP ammo is really expensive these days.

The bottom line is that I would take a Ruger LCP in 380 ACP over any pocket pistols in 22 LR or 25 ACP. The LCP is just a tad longer and taller than your 22 and 25 autoloaders. However, it is lighter than most all steel 22 and 25 autos.

I have a Colt .25 Vest Pocket which was made by Browning in the early 1920's. It was my grandfather's which he bought new. It has the original box, manual, holster, and even had a very old box of ammunition. Unfortunately I discarded the box of ammo when I got it 15 years ago. Wish I had kept it now.
There's just something special about it for me. Maybe it's a combination of the diminutive size, the beautiful finish with the case hardened trigger and grip safety, and that it was my grandfathers.